Alternative Medicine TV Programme
Alternative Medicine TV Programme On Tuesday 24th Jan, 9pm BBC 2. It’s the first of three programmes looking at the effectiveness of various alternative (complementary?) treatments. First programme is about Acupuncture and the others are about healing and herbs (I think).
It’s presented by an initially sceptical professor from Bristol University. The Tuesday programme is supposed to feature footage of open heart surgery in China where the patient has no anaesthesia, just acupuncture. Apparently the Prof. devises an MRI experiment to see what’s going on in the brain during acupuncture.
Sulphar for hot flushes —Im having quite a lot of hot flushes & night sweats (im currently on CMF, periods stopped after 1st dose) & went to see a herbalist who recommended sulphar tablets.
I came out in a rash on both forearms ( looks like a sweat rash) a day after starting them, so have stopped until my chemo finishes ( in 18 days time, all being well, yippee!!) as I dont want them to delay my last 2 lots of chemo.
Has anyone else any experience of sulphar tabs & any side effects from them?? I cant say if they did any good or not, as I only took them for 24 hrs, but I think I will try them again once chemo finishes, as Im so fed up of waking every hour or so throughout the night! I’ll try anything once!
Ooops —Sorry, meant to start this as a new post!
acupuncture I watched the programme you mentioned Daphne, and I thought it was pretty good, especially for a prime-time spot. The presenter had a rigorous approach to evidence for claims for acupuncture and you couldn’t fault her on the people she went to for their views, like the team at Exeter (or similar) who spend all their time evaluating the research studies published on complementary medicine. She also explained things like the placebo effect and double-blind trials in a very accessible way. All good stuff
In the end, the experiment that the programme undertook most definitely showed there was a brain reaction to acupuncture - which helped to support (and explain) a previous pretty rigorous experiment which showed that acupuncture for knee arthritis works for pain relief.
The thing about acupincture though, from my reading, is that it is pretty much ‘king’ of what we in the West (probably arrogantly) consider to be alternative therapies, in that there is already a lot of evidence to show it helps with pain, even if not much of that evidence meets with the highest academic standards.
So…I wonder what she will make of the other treatments she investigates. I will definitely be watching though…
Kate
ps. I tried acupuncture for digestive problems a while ago - I found it uncomfortable and ineffective!!!
Acupuncture Hi Kate,
I’d be interested to know where you had your acupuncture?
There are a lot of these Doctor & Herbs places springing up in Shopping Centres of all places, and as a member of the British Acupuncture Council I am outraged as they are not regulated in any way. I’m wondering if you went to one of those or looked up someone on the British Acupuncture Website, which is the safest way to find someone who is a fully regulated & qualified member…
Best wishes
Jenny
ps looking forward to this weeks programme!
Alternative Health Being a Reiki healer, I watched last night’s programme with great interest. Most people nowadays would be familiar with the concepts of the Placebo effect (indeed, 2000 years ago Jesus was telling people who came for healing from him that their faith had healed them). What was astounding was the fact that the placebo effect even came into force with knee operations, when half were given a new knee and the other half of the trial just put out, taken into theatre, opened up and the procedures gone through by the surgeon but the patient not touched so no new knee. Many years later these patients were still walking and dancing etc. as if they’d received a new knee.
The presenter went to the Uni of Arizona where research was being done into the energy coming from the body. I would agree with her that it didn’t seem scientific enough - too subjective. The experiment done in Aberdeen where some clients were seen by a healer and some by an actor showed healing to a certain extent was seen in both halves of the trial, in fact those seeing the actor fared better!
Why? Did the actor have healing abilities he was unaware of or in his determination to mimic the healer completely open up channels in himself for healing?
The presenter’s conclusion was that the healer facilitated the client’s mind to promote the body’s own healing, in one case by provenly producing dopamine in the case of a Parkinsons sufferer. This is what Reiki claims to do - the client’s higher self takes in the energy from the healer and directs it to where it is most needed, on a physical, mental, emotional or spiritual level to kickstart that level into mending itself.
I would suggest this programme only scratched the surface of the subject. The concept of the healer passing on a healing energy was totally discounted. Not enough homework had been done I feel to find research done into the energy emanating from a healer’s hands and that of a non-healer. There is ample scientific evidence out there of this phenomena, from Kirlian photography to experiments done in UCLA for one.
More of the same please BBC - there’s enough to make a series on just this subject alone…
Judy
knees and placebos A facsinating programme, at a decent time in the schedules. I too have a growing belief in healing and reiki. More research needed in these araes.
The book by Grace Adamson, called Women of Silence addresses these issues with regard to breast cancer. It is a good read for anyone, particularly BC information junkies like me who want another way to take charge of their lives following diagnosis. She talks of the healing power of meditation, visualisation, and recovering the life force and joy of living that women can lose.
Incidently, the experiment with knee arthritis sufferers did not appear to be about knee replacement vs. placebo surgery. Once the knee has degenerated to that extent, only knee replacements will do, as the articular surfaces of the joint are so worn that nothing else will suffice.
These ops seemeed to be lesser surgery such as arthroscopy and debridement, which is shaving off damaged cartilege, and usually performed as keyhole surgery. I know 'cos I’ve had it 3 times!!
Helen x
Hi Helen Thanks for clarifying the knee op thing for me. Got hold of the wrong end of the stick (story of my life!).
Having said that, for ten years I’ve had pretty bad arthritis in both knees and used to control it with an Ace machine, (not a Tens machine which just helps ease pain) which sent micro electrical pulses through to the joint, If I used this for half an hour daily for two or three weeks I’d be free of pain and more mobile and flexible for a couple of months. Once I started doing selfhealing with Reiki four years ago I didn’t need to use it again as the Reiki seems to have the same effect. No way could I run a marathon but it certainly much better, whereas over a number of years one would normally expect an arthritic knee to get worse.
It would be interesting to compare my knees with before and after Xrays to see what’s going on. The theory behind the Ace machine was that it stimulated new cell growth in the joint. Has Reiki done the same by persuading my body through my mind to regenerate itself?
Are we getting closer to scientific proof of the power of positive thought? I do hope so.
Judy xxx
Healing I thought the programme was really interesting, but I was hoping that Kathy Sykes would investigate what physical changes (if any) happened to people after their ailments were reduced or cured by the placebo effect.
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For example, I presume that a large proportion of the people who had chronic knee pain had some physical evidence of the problem that could be detected by x-rays or scans – for example, their knee cartilage wearing away. If they reported improvement after their fake or genuine operations, did they have x-rays or scans of their knees and how did that compare with the original baseline?
I completely agree with the point that Kathy Sykes and the GP made at the end of the programme, which is that an important factor in the placebo effect is the attitude of doctor or healer who treats you. Patients have to be able to trust and have confidence in their doctors and healers to get the most benefit.
The big American-style healing session with people hopping out of their wheelchairs did remind me of Andy & Lou from Little Britain though.
Acupuncture for Animals Last year our eldest dog started to walk very strangely, almost as though the back legs were drunk. After examination etc he was diagnosed with a “slipped disc”. As he was almost 12 we decide not to go for surgery, but one of the Vets in the practice had qualified as an Accupuncturist, and it was suggested that this could help.
I confess to being sceptical on the basis that with alternative treatments much depends on the willingness of the patient to believe. However, I was prepared to give it a go. The first time we went, the dog obviously was nervous, and experienced discomfort when the needles were initially inserted. Within a short amount of time he relaxed, and in fact relaxed to a point where he was quite literally asleep standing up! I have never seen anything like it in a dog - in a horse yes!
He had 6 or 7 sessions, and there was a definite improvement. He still had a drunken gait, but the heat in his back went, and he was clearly no longer in pain.
My mother has very bad arthritis, and I have been trying to persuade her to give Accupuncture a try. However, her GP has effectively poo-pooed the idea, and you know what elderly people are like, the Doctor is God in these matters. I would however be really interested to know if you think it could help Arthritis of knees and ankles.
Herbalism Another interesting programme last night presented by Kathy Sykes where she found that some herbs have scientifically been proved to work better than man-made drugs for similar health problems.
The previous week’s programme about healing, which concluded that the benefits of the placebo effect are underestimated in conventional medicine, reminded me about the rubbishing of homeopathy last year. For example, the Guardian said this about it:
"favoured medical remedy of the royal family for generations and hugely popular in the UK, has an effect but only in the mind, according to a major study published in a leading medical journal today.
The conclusions of the Lancet analysis are a body blow for proponents of homeopathy, which has been around for 250 years and has attained cult-like status among its aficionados.
Swiss scientists compared the results of more than 100 trials of homeopathic medicines with the same number of trials of conventional medicines in a whole range of medical conditions, from respiratory infections to surgery. They found that homeopathy had no more than a placebo effect"
But I think this misses the point, especially in the light of Kathy Sykes’ findings on the Placebo Effect. People tend to go to complementary medicine if conventional medicine doesn’t work for their condition, as an addition to conventional medicine or if they don’t trust conventional medicine. Of course there are plenty of snake oil merchants who will exploit this need and make money out of vulnerable people, but if you go into complementary medicine with your eyes open and get benefit from it, whether or not the benefit is caused by the placebo effect, isn’t that better than suffering unnecessarily?
Many traditional scientists dismiss any treatments for which there is no scientific proof that they have a physical effect on the body. By doing this, they completely ignore what is going on in peoples’ minds. If people get better because they think something is doing them good, what’s wrong with that? if it offends conventional scientists, that’s their problem, not the patients’. Surely it is the end result that is important, not how you get to it, provided the treatment is not harmful to the patient?
However, we need to be careful when considering the effect of the placebo effect and what’s going on in the mind. If we aren’t careful, we find ourselves on the slippery slope where people who get diseases such as breast cancer are somehow made to feel that their personality type helped to cause it. Or if they use complementary therapies and it comes back, they may be made to feel that they have failed somehow or not made themselves receptive to the benefits of the therapy. I think this is very wrong, but the fact that these misconceptions exist should not prevent debate about this very interesting topic.
belated entry to this Just a thought, stimulated by the discussion here - surely placebo, rather than being a derogatory term, should be what medicine is aiming at - getting the body to heal itself. From the little reading i have done on the immune system (facinating and terribly complicated!) it appears that we have within us the where-with-all to cure ourselves of our cancer.
We have ‘killer cells’ that can be switched on to kill cancer cells (most of our immune system ignores cancer cells as they are not ‘foreign’) and tests have been done to look at these cells as some people have lots but they don’t attack the cancer cells, some people have low levels but theirs are active against cancer cells. The problem is that, for most of us, our immune system just doesn’t act against cancer cells. Perhaps when we use healing, meditation or whatever, we are switching on those killer cells ourselves.
I wish we had more research into the area of complementary therapies as I really don’t care what you call it - placebo, quacks, healers - if I could get my body to switch on those killer cells to get rid of the cancer that would do me!
Sorry for the garbled science but if you want a good, but hard work for non-scientist, read than try:
Sompayrac, Lauren. ‘How the immune system works’.2nd ed.
Publisher / Date Blackwell Science, c2003.
ISBN 063204702X
Blondie
Was this a sensationalised TV stunt? Many of us watched this TV series with interest, though ever the sceptic I was alarmed by the seriousness which which some doddy assertions were made.
So very interested to read a report in yesterday’s Guardian that many of the scientists who worked on elements the programme have complained that some the programme was misleading. For example, we watched a Chinese patient having a heart operation by acupuncture and lttle (nothing?) was siad of the fact that she had had large doses of medical sedaton and local painkillers.
One scientist working on the programme said: 'The interpretation of the science in this particular programme was not good and was inappropriately sensationalised by the production team."
Edzard Ernst who is Prossor of Complementary Medicine at Exeter Uni. complained about the false impression created by the programme on healing… He pointed out the complete lack of distinction between evidence and anecdote and the failure of the prodction team to listen to scientists.
Personally I think there is a worryingly strong and powerful streak of pseudo science taking hold around the whole area of ‘alternative’ medicine. This does no one any favours, particularly those with incurable life threatening disaeses like cancer who can so easily get sucked into believing in the unbelievable.
I am not saying that acupuncture, healing and the like may not help some people to feel better (and yes placebo is a recognised phenomena), but when evidence is distorted and wild claims made on the basis of pseudo science…and on prime time TV…then more of us should be using our brains and rational argument to combat these trends.
Jane
in Sunday Times too Yes JaneRA I too read a critique of the programme. I watched the series and, like you, was amazed that something so fundamental as the fact that the heart patient was on large doses of pain-killing drugs - as well as acupuncture - was not even mentioned! They kept on saying ‘how rigorous’ they were being in the programme too - very disappointing.
Blondie
Truth I wonder why the scientists working on the programme didn’t publicise their concerns before or at the time the programme was broadcast. Perhaps they didn’t get a preview of the final versions that were broadcast.
Certainly if the Chinese woman having heart surgery had sedation and painkillers as well as acupuncture, it is wrong that this was not made clear in the programme.
But it does still raise the question of whether it is possible to use acupuncture and sedation and pain relief in major surgery as an alternative to traditional anaesthesia. If it is possible, could this lead to faster recovery and shorter hospital stays?
It would be a shame if anger at the programme makers meant that these sorts of possibilities were not properly investigated and discussed.
Letters in the Guardian Interesting that while Prof Ernst stated his objections in the guardian letter page, a whole team of scientists who had acted as advisors also stated their full support and agreement with the program.
Or does one professor = 6 doctors???
I sometimes wonder if Edzard Ernst really approves of complementary medicine at all, despite his professorship. He has a scholarly way of debunking his own discipline!