Braca1 - removal of ovaries

Hello there

I am 36 and I am Brac1 postive, in June 2009 I had a double masectomy and reconstruction, as my little boy was only 1 I decided to leave my ovaries for a while, however, I constantly worry about getting cancer and I am thinking of having key hole surgery. The consultants have told me that they will put me on HRT immedately because ive alredy had a double masectomy and they have assured me that I will feel fine. Has anyone been throught the same? I am so scared of early menopause but its the only option.

I really look forward to hearing from you.

Hi

I’m BRCA2 and had my ovaries removed nearly three years ago when I was 44.

The op itself was fine. I had keyhole surgery and would have been discharged from hospital same day but my op was late so had to stop in one night. I was driving in a couple of days and had a week off work.

Menopause symptoms weren’t as bad as told they maybe. I may have been lucky. At the same time I’d also changed from Tamoxifen to Femara and that may have caused side effects too. But only thing I remember having was the hotflushes. They were quite severe sometimes but did pass quite quickly. These lasted for about 6 months and now I just get an odd one which is probably down to the hormone therapy. I had achy joints but put this down to Femara as its a known side effect of that drug.

I can’t really remember any other problems. I am pleased I had them removed coz it took that worry away of cancer developing there. I knew I wouldn’t have anymore kids so I didn’t need them anymore.

Hope this helps

Take care

Lynne

Hi,
I have a mutation of the BRCA 2 gene. I had bc in 2004 age 41 and had my ovaries removed in 2005. The menopausal symptoms haven’t been to bad but its the unseen side effects of oopherectomy you need to be aware of. My bones have suffered severely as a result of an early menopause and I’m also at an increased risk of heart disease. There is effective screening for ovarian cancer that you would be entitled to and should ask about if it hasn’t been offered to you.
Best wishes x

Helen i have to disagree with you completely re ovarian screening…there is NO effective screening for ovarian Ca… there isnt even any screening at all since the UKFOCSS trial stopped recruiting in march… the two methods they used to screen are unreliable… CA125 is blood test for cancer markers… however although it can be increased in ovarian cancer it can be increased for many reason which affect inflammation of the abdominal cavity… so it could be raised if you are having a period, have cysts, fibriods, endometriosis, endometrial thickening due to tamoxifen, as well as other cancers and it can also be raised if your constoipated.

it can also be entirely normal when people do have ovarian cancer.

the transvaginal ultrasound is the other method of screening they used in the trial and that was found to lead to excessive interventions for what looked like changes but resulting in being normal.

the only really effective treatment for ovarian ca risk is risk reducing surgery with or without HRT.

i have a BRCA2 mutation i am also a breast care nurse in genetics and no patient would ever be informed that ovarian screening was effective… having a ca125 checked 4 monthly may suffice for some people but it doesnt lower the risk of getting the disease and it may not identify that you the disease… ultimately its up to the individual if they decide if they would be happy having ca125 checks (all that is available screening-wise now the trial has ended) or if they would prefer to have surgery or prefer to do nothing at all.

when it comes to the surgery you have two options… of having just your ovaries and tubes out called a bilateral salpingo-oophorectomy (BSO for short) or a Total abdominal hysterectomy (TAH) plus a BSO.

the cancer that affects the ovaries can also affect the tubes so you should never be recommend just to have the ovaries out and leave the tubes… you recover quicker after the BSO as its usually keyhole surgery so you are in hospital maybe only overnight and a recovery of a bout 2-4 weeks.

if you keep your uterus and are having HRT you need to have the combined kind to protect the endometrium… this type is the kind most associated with an increased risk of breast cancer.

if you are on or have been on tamoxifen there is also a very marginal increase in developing endometrial cancer so some people prefer to have the TAH + BSO however this is an open procedure and much more invasive… you will normally be in hospital for 3 to 5 days with a recovery of a bout 6 to 12 weeks.

one other aspect of deciding whether to keep your uterus or not could be the theoretical risk of cancer originating in the terminal ends of the fallopean tubes which are situated inside the uterus… there has been no documented cases of ovarian cancer developing from this part of the tubes but as its made of the same tissue so theoretically there is a chance.

having an open procedure can lead to problems associated with surgery eg damage to bladder, ureters or bowel is uncommon but can happen, larger wounds are more prone to infection and dehisssing and there could be problems of herniation… you gynaecologist should explain all this to you before you make your decision on whether to go ahead and which op you want.

i was planning to have a keyhole BSO but had fluctuating ca125 due to tamoxifen induced endometrial thickening despite having a mirena coil insitu so on the day of my op i changed my mind and went for the full TAH and BSO. it was 3 weeks ago and im recovering well.

the long term side effects as Helen says are instant menopausal symptoms which do not affect everybody but the common things are seriously mental hot flushes from a day or two post op. the risk of osteoporosis but this shouldnt be such an issue these days with bone strengthening drugs now available. you may get joint or bone pain or stiffness and other symptoms such as vaginal dryness and painful sex… for some people these side effects would make the surgery not an option.

if you havent had breast cancer then there is no increased risk of breast cancer if you have your ovaries out and take HRT… the level from the HRT is less than somebody would have going through the natural menopause… if you have had cancer then some doctors are not keen to prescribe it… if you have your uterus you would have the combined kind if you have hysterectomy you can have the oestrogen only kind… if you are premenopausal they recommend you take HRT to the natural menopause age of about 51 or for 5 year… so you could be on HRT for quite a while.

also one more point removing your breast and you ovaries is not 100% effective in minimising your risk… it does reduce it to 1-5% form 85% and its much less than the population risk but you still have to be body aware.

sorry for the mammoth essay… and sorry if iv put you to sleep.

Lulu

I wasn’t aware that the trial had ceased; thats a shame as I know of at least 3 people for whom screening was effective. The CA125 is unreliable I agree. As far as making decisions about surgery I think its wise to know your specific mutation, ovarian cancer is more of a worry for some mutations than others. There is a lot of controversy around HRT, my 2 sisters who both have the BRCA 2 mutation but not had bc have both been denied HRT. As for osteoporosis, well I must say I DO think there are issues. Its a condition that isn’t seen or felt but can have devastating consequences. Not everybody is offered or can easily access a dexa scan thus they don’t know what condition their bones are in so don’t get bone strengthening tablets, for those that do there can be horrible side effects. Personally it was less than 12 months post oopherectomy when my ankle broke for no apparent reason; a dexa scan showed my bones were in a poor state and I was only 42!
Best wishes x

Hiya Helen

although this is american so not everything is relevant to the UK but it might be useful for your sisters in obtaining HRT if needed… if you read page 5 it had information on HRT post PBSO.
medscape.com/viewarticle/564536

“Limited data exist regarding HRT after PBSO in BRCA mutation carriers, but most experts agree that the beneficial effects of PBSO far outweigh the theoretical increased risks associated with HRT. Several papers (decision analysis and indirect comparison) suggest that short-term use of HRT after PBSO does not significantly impact breast cancer risk”

also this…
jco.ascopubs.org/content/23/31/7804.full

“CONCLUSION: Short-term HRT use does not negate the protective effect of BPO on subsequent breast cancer risk in BRCA1/2 mutation carriers.”

and this one is from 2010 so still very up to date…
informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/09513590.2010.487609

“BRCA1 and BRCA2 mutation carriers should be encouraged to undergo prophylactic bilateral salpingo-oophorectomy at the age of 35–40 years or when childbearing is complete. Short-term use of hormone replacement therapy may relieve menopausal symptoms and does not appear to affect the breast cancer risk reduction obtained with salpingo-oophorectomy”

i think if your sisters can show evidence then they can get the HRT… however its should really be their medical team who is looking at the evidence and current research finding on the subject.

have you been able to get some bone strengthening meds? also just wondering if you were changed from tamox to an AI after your PBSO? as AIs do have long term effects on bone strength compared with effects of tamox… and if on an AI should have i think 2 yrly dexa scan to monitor and increase calcium and vit D in diet if possible.

good luck helen
love Lulu xxx

HiI am 39 years old and have the BRCA2 gene. Three weeks ago I had keyhole surgery to remove my ovaries and fallopian tubes as a preventative measure. The surgeon said I should go and see my GP after 3 weeks to get HRT which I have done today. There was some confusion at the surgery because my records suggested I have had a full hysterectomy which I’m pretty sure I haven’t so my GP is going to check with the hospital to confirm this before she goes ahead with prescribing the correct HRT. However she did mention that if I do still have my uterus I will continue to have periods when I take the HRT. This has come as a surprise to me as I was actually told when leaving hospital by a doctor that my period that was imminent would be my last one. Please can someone confirm which is the case. Is it possible to have periods when your ovaries have been removed? Many thanks

if you have combined HRT which is the kind they give you if you still have your uterus then its it similar to the combined pill and gives you a regular cycle.

sounds more like it was ovaries and tubes you had out as hysterectomy is usually an open procedure but they can remove the ovaries and tubes by key hole and do a vaginal hysterectomy but you would have to consent to the procedure as nowadays they cannot just do whatever they think is best for you while your asleep.

hope that helps a bit

Lxx

Hi Lulu
Thank you very much for replying. I’m going back to my GP today and hopefully she has confirmed with the hospital that it was an oophorectomy I had and she will go ahead and prescribe combined HRT which as you say will mean that I will have regular cycle . I must admit I am slightly disappointed as I thought no more periods was a bonus of having the op!

Thanks again x

hey Dajjer

just wondering how you got on at the docs?

Lx

Hi Lulu

I got on fine thanks. The hospital had confirmed that I had an oophorectomy so my dr prescribed a combined HRT like you said. She said that because of my age I should have a high dose and continue til I’m 53, so for 14 years. I knew prior to the op I would need HRT but I was told this would be a low dose and quite safe as I have the BRCA2 gene. I am seriously considering prophylactic surgery but have recently been told that I may not have enough tissue for tram/diep flap which is what I was leaning towards so it looks like I will have to have implants which I’m not 100% sure about at the minute. My concern is that if I don’t have the breast surgery how safe is it for me to be on this HRT for 14 years. I know I’m probably worrying unecessairily but I feel like effectively I’m back on the contraceptive pill now and I came off this 5 years or so ago when my mum was diagnosed with breast cancer before we knew about the gene mutation. I been thinking maybe I should have had a full hysterectomy and then I wouldn’t have to take HRT (as I do now as I still have my uterus) and if I did have a low dose to help relieve the menopause symptons I probably wouldn’t need it for so long. I have a post op hospital appointment in December so I will discuss my concerns then. Thanks for asking how I got on. I’ve rattled on a bit so you’re probably wishing you hadn’t asked!!

Take care x

whether you had a hysterectomy or not probably wouldnt make any difference to the length or time you are to be on HRT only to the type of HRT you will be recommended to use.

the recommendations are to take it to age 50… id say aim for 10 years… one of the reassuring things if you havent had breast cancer is that ovary removal plus HRT doesnt increase your risk of BC and infact your risk of BC is halved just by having your ovaries removed and the HRT doesnt change this.

in terms of the contraceptive pill its actually prevents against ovarian cancer although increased the risk of breast cancer so for somebody with a family history of mainly breast cancers i would recommend against it but if the family history was significantly high for ovarian cancer then the OCP is beneficial.

i have been told the same with respect of the tram/diep as iv not got enough tissue to make into boobs so will prob go down the route of implants only next year.

take care

Lxx

Thanks again Lulu for your help.

Best wishes x

Just read about your recent operation,Lulu.
Really hope you are progressing well.
You deserve a break from all these constant complications you’ve been through.
All this and your new(ish) job to contend with.
Go girl!!!

Welsh girl x

thanks Welsh girl… feeling great after my op… it was 8 weeks ago today and apart from a numbs scar and a wee bit of tugging inside physically im fine… the hot flushes a re a bit annoying but nothing i cant handle.

Lxx

Hi Lulu,

We have ‘met’ before on here, a long, long time ago! I think it was a discussion about Mirena.

I just wanted to say thank-you for your detailed explanations on this thread. I’m about to have the blood test for BRCA so am finding it all very useful information just in case my test comes back positive (about 10-15% probability, according to my geneticist).

Having already had BC, a single mx, chemo, rads and tamox, I wouldn’t have any problem with having ooph, a 2nd mx, but am dithering on the thought of recon.

I’d be interested to hear your opinion on the emotional/psychological effects of risk-reducing surgery.

Glad to hear you’re recovering well,

Bella xx

Thanks Bella

i recognise your name too… i loved my mirena and if i was just having the BSO was gonna keep it but now i have no uterus i have no need for a the mirena now.

i havent had the risk reducing breast surgery yet… im on the waiting list and can really have it any time i like now, however i want to fully recover from my hysterectomy before having more surgery and dont want to take a loads more time off as iv only been in this post about 6 months.

i think partly its the emotion effects im putting off too… especially now that i dont have cancer at the mo so it seems quite drastic to cut off ‘healthy’ breasts… i did think i would just continue with screening and have the surgery if i got cancer again but my PS says if your gonna have the surgery after cancer i should consider having it sooner… before i get cancer… im still in a quandry but i know i need to make the right decision for me so im not rushing into something i may regret later on.

i was offered implant only surgery with with strattice/permacol or bilat LD flaps… PS is keen for LD but i prefer the implant surgery but again i maybe change my mind by then.

BTW if you have a significant family history and are still worried about your risk even if the gene test comes back that no gene is found you can still discuss the option of risk reducing surgery if you want to go down that route… ill be thinking of you when you get your results.

Lxx

Thanks Lulu.

If my test is +ve, my geneticist has said I’d have about a 60% chance of reccurrence of BC plus a 70-80% chance of OC. It’d be a no-brainer for me, I’d definitely have risk-reducing surgery as my children are 15 and 11 and I most certainly want to see them grow up and be a bonkers granny for their children!

My issue over recon is, and always has been, that it’s so incredibly invasive and would probably take me months to heal. It took me 6 weeks to heal after my mx and I had a yukky seroma and a second drain just for that. I’m really not happy about having my back or tummy touched (although there’s plenty of tummy to have a go at!!).

I only yesterday discovered this strattice technique - it looks interesting. Do you happen to know if it’s possible to have this if you’ve had radio, as I have, as I believe expanders aren’t possible to due the effects of radio on the skin???

Bxx

my plan is to have expanders and strattice but have had rads to both sides and PS still happy to do expanders following WLE but will be over a longer period with smaller fills… i know with a delayed Mx it may be different but i have heard of people having expanders after Mx and there is some research around that supports this so maybe having a wee chat with your PS about this.

Lulu xxx

Hi Lulu - just to let you know my BRCA test was negative, which is obviously brilliant news.

Wishing you, and all the other ladies on here, all the very best,

Bella x