No, if there was a proven link that, for example broccoli cured cancer, the people who would benefit would be broccoli growers, not the scientists who spent millions proving it!
How can you patent a food??
Remember too that smoking causes lung cancer. Full stop. The NHS still treats smokers and suggests that really, perhaps, if they fancy it, they should give up. People want pills and easy solutions and that is what the NHS provides.
Marian - I don’t think we are talking about the same thing. I haven’t suggested doctors don’t give diet advice to diabetics - of course they do. I’m suggesting oncologists are generally not particularly well informed about what affect diet can have on cancer prevention and treatment. I’m wondering if you read any of the research at the link? The website gives detailed research showing the effects of individual foods on cancer cells. This example will give you a flavour of it:
A new study has reported that watercress can inhibit angiogenesis. Angiogenesis is the process by which tumors send out signals to induce surrounding normal tissues to grow new blood vessels into the tumor. As tumors expand, they quickly outgrow their existing blood supply. Therefore, angiogenesis is important to continued tumor growth and development. The study was designed to investigate the anti-cancer activities of phenethyl isothiocyanate (PEITC), an isothiocyanate abundant in watercress and also found in some other brassica vegetables. The authors demonstrate that phenethyl isothiocyanate inhibits angiogenesis by interfering with the function of hypoxia inducible factor (HIF), a protein that plays a crucial important role in the expression of pro-angiogenic factors. The authors conclude that phenethyl isothiocyanate is an effective inhibitor of HIF activity and that this may contribute to its anti-angiogenic and anti-cancer effects.
If you believe this research is faulty - that’s fine and I would be interested in your reasons, but to suggest the evidence doesn’t exist is just not true. This is one of probably thousands of similar research programmes. For people interested in this subject, there is a lot they can do by adjusting their diet to improve their chances of a better outcome.
I think your boyfriend should change his doctor.My OH has diabetes and when first diagnosed he was given a diet sheet and lots of information on how to look after himself he also has a diabetes nurse and has regular checks.
would like to know how the left handedness is valid, it was a survey like 9 out of 10 cats prefer whiskers.
And I also know of 3 people who have been refused certain treatment on the NHS because they smoke and have smoking related disease.
Melxx
Melly I posted the explanation offered about the left handed research above. If you read it, it doesn’t suggest being left handed causes cancer, but there might be a link to the effect of oestrogen in the womb that effects the part of the brain that determines handedness. If you read it it’s actually quite interesting. Note however the website that I linked to concludes that the information is not of much use - it isn’t promoting this research, just reporting it.
finty
Melly the explanation is in my comment posted at 11.58.
finty
I still go back to my point that where there is very strong research evidence such as with alcohol and risk, the oncologists and surgeons aren’t passing this on. Why not?
It’s unlikely we’re going to find one food that will prevent or destroy cancer or one food that will increase risk. However where there is research on foods/drinks I for one do want to know about it but I won’t expect to hear from my oncologist on it.
Very well said Elinda.
Mel, people still get treated for smoking related diseases, they generally do not get ops where the smoking will increase the risk to an unacceptable level. The govt still sells cigarettes!!
I’m very pleased for you that your OH gets such great care on the NHS, it shows how variable the standard is.
Remember chemo is not 100% proven to cure cancer. I had a lump grow during FEC, but I’m not on this forum trying to dissuade women from having FEC chemo. Specific diets are not 100% proven to cure cancer, yet there is a lot of evidence that diet does make a big difference, so why should women try to discourage others from doing everything they can to improve their odds of long-term survival?
I have read it,I read it when I first went on the site.
“Note however the website that I link to concludes that the information is not of much use”.It actually says not of much use if you already have breast cancer. However, it might encourage those at high risk and those with left-handed daughters to be vigilant with respect to breast cancer screening and to take appropriate steps to mitigate breast cancer risk.it is promoting it.
Melx
Then I’m confused as to why you thought it lost all credibility.
I would never discourage anyone from eating a healthy diet.I know how important it is.I spend most of my time nagging my OH trying to keep him on a healthy diet.Infact I have tried some of the recipes that have been put on here.My OH has a sweet tooth and really enjoyed the fruit cake so I keep making it,he will be sick of it soon lol. I buy healthy food but do have treats and dont stress out about it.
I just find some things to be unproven rubbish based on surveys.
melx
I meant all credibility for the whole site went out the window
Melx
But why - what specifically about that piece did you find lacked credibility? It was suggesting a reasonable explanation for an observed set of statistics - I’m confused as to why you would dismiss all the research because of it.
Hi,
I realy dont think the worlds leading cancer specialists / oncologists/doctors/ research scientists/cancer charities ect ect have some vested interest in promoting the occurence of cancer this isnt some sort of conspiricy by the medical profession, we/cancer patients cost the Health Service/insurance companys around the world billions , if there was any creditable evidence that following any particular diet helped in breast cancer fighting/prevention then these methods would be used in practise today and actively promoted by the health service, then mabe the NHS wouldnt be in the state it is in.
Many people will hold strong views on this subject and it has been debated endlessly many many times on the forums by some extreamly knowledgable women , there will always be differences of views on these topics according to which scientific evidence people prefer to believe , ultimeately we all do our own research and we will all quite rightly choose our own path ,i think as long as there is room in discussions like this for all the different viewpoints to be aired then these topics remain usefull to those seeking further information , i do think though that we all need to try and remember that just because someone may hold a different view, that does not mean that anyone is being dismissive, this just isnt true ,everyone has the right to express an opinion based on their own beliefs/research and knowledge. all views should be welcomed and all views are equaly valid.
Linda
Linda - may I just ask if you have read any of the research that I linked to? Instead of discussing this in abstract terms as to why people don’t think there is any link - would it not be more profitable to discuss the research itself to see whether people find it valuable? I am finding it difficult to understand how something is dismissed before being studied. Thanks
finty
Linda - I would also add that nobody here is accusing doctors and charities of a conspiracy to promote cancer - that is an offensive characterisation. The point several people have tried to make on this thread is that doctors often don’t give us any advice on lifestyle changes, even when the evidence is overwhelming that those changes should be made if we want to improve our chances. I do want to improve my chances - so I want that advice. Others may not, but they should have the choice. That is simply undeniable. As an example, I am overweight and was a moderate social drinker before dx - at no time has anybody involved with my treatment ever suggested I lose weight and stop drinking. I have done both - but only because I found the information myself and acted on it.
The same applies to diet. If you read the recent research on watercress that I mentioned above, you will see that it is able to affect a tumour’s ability to gain a blood supply, which is required for secondaries to advance. This is new information and in a perfect world you would expect everyone with secondaries to be told it is worthwhile adding watercress to their diet - yet I doubt a single person on this forum has been told this. So if your premise is true that oncologists are all knowing about diet and cancer - how do you explain this? There are three options: A They believe the research on watercress is faulty, B they don’t know about this research, or C they know about it and don’t pass it on. We can easily find out by all asking our oncs, but I’m pretty sure the answer will be mainly B with a small sprinkling of C.
I think it is great that you have complete trust in your onc to advise you, and that you are very happy with that arrangement. I have complete trust in my onc to give me good advice regarding my medical treatment, but zero trust regarding anything else I should be doing. For instance - have you been told you should probably be taking Vitamin D supplements, and if not, why not?
I would really, really like to discuss the research with you if you are interested.
finty
Hi Finty,perhaps thats just what we should do ask our Oncologist,put the overwhelming evidence to them and see what they have to say instead of guessing what they would say.Or has anyone already done this and what did their Oncologist say.
I was told about a healthy diet and the benefits of maybe losing a bit of weight.This was by my BCN though not Oncologist and was when I developed lymphoedema during rads.
Melx
Other reasons that Oncologists may not pass such information on are:
I certainly don’t believe there is any conspiracy by doctors to thwart cancer prevention. I do think that Oncologists are overwhelmed by their roles already.
However I don’t think it’s acceptable not to pass on what is mainstream information about alcohol, or losing weight or exercise. Many of us have looked up the information for ourselves but there are people who don’t have access to the internet, or don’t have the education to start researching things for themselves or the knowledge of how to change their diets etc. Aren’t those people being let down?
I agree elinda45 those thoughts were in my head.We should be given information on alcohol,weight and excercise.But then it still could be misinterpreted and people thinking it was their fault they got breast cancer because they drank or were a little overweight.
I remember when I had my op a junior doctor asked me if I breast fed my children,he was horrified when I said no,and made me feel that that was why I got breast cancer. He may be right and 3 years on I can accept that it may of contributed to me getting BC but when first diagnosed I felt terrible.
Melx
So people should not be given advice incase they feel bad??? That is a very, very poor reason.
So mums who smoke during pregnancy should not be told to stop, because really, they should not be made to feel guilty?
While the diet is a hotly debated topic, there is irrefutable and strong links with weight, alcohol smoking and vitimin d, yet few woman have had any of these factors discussed with the medical team,
Melly I think you are right. I completely disagree that doctors should withhold advise, but I understand why they do. When someone has just been told they have cancer they would feel very hurt to be told that their lifestyle is likely to have contributed to the cause - although for many, including me, it is true. Doctors are very fearful of causing offence, and we all know some patients would be very angry. My husband is one of 5, the other 4 are medics - I have had long discussions with them about this - they tell me they almost never make any comments to patients that could be interpreted as criticism. Even when they deal with morbidly obese patients, they they don’t insist they diet and exercise - they hand out medication because that is what people want. Whilst a pregnant mother might be given a leaflet explaining breast is best, very few doctors will question a mother’s decision not to breast feed - even though the evidence is overwhelming that it is the best possible practise for mother and baby. So what are we to do when even though there is advice that could potentially save our lives, doctors are reluctant to offer it, for fear of causing offence?
Also, diet advice is incredibly complicated - it isn’t as simple as handing out a one size fits all diet sheet. It depends on your cancer, and even breast cancer is 20 or so different types, with different diet advice for each type. The advice on cancer fighting foods itself is very complex - for each food there are huge variables - how it is grown, how it is processed, how it is cooked, what food it is eaten with - all these things and many more will have an affect. There are so many variables, it would require individual consultations with very skilled practitioners. Doctors simply don’t have any training on diet at all - it is a very specialised area, and oncs are really generalists. They may have a little knowledge if it is something they have taken an interest in, but there are literally thousands and thousands of research papers on the subject, and it is not reasonable to expect them to keep on top of it.
I have asked my onc about these issues - specifically the dairy / soya debate. She knew less about it than I did. I don’t blame her for that - but it made me realise I was pretty much on my own if I wanted to work out a diet that could help me fight my secondaries. When another poster here directed me to the website I linked to above, I was thrilled - it collated in one place all the stuff I had been reading about all over the net. It’s an incredibly useful resource - I think it is a great shame that people dismiss it before reading it.
finty x