With you there fran yes I was a big meat lover & although I didn’t eat much red meat I dont touch it now,just small amounts of organic chicken breast pork or lamb I eat more white fish but keep the animal proteins low to medium my carb levels are good too funny you say about craving the veg if you dont have it, it is strange how our bodies adapt I too love my big salads (fresh fruit ones too) it amazes me how I used to struggle at getting the ‘five a day’ now its more like 14 + a day with my 3 main meals I aim to get 27 different colours varieties of fruit & veg in a week, bit like the rainbow diet & found it a breeze its just become a way of life for me now, luckily the whole family are starting to follow suit & eating alot more of the good stuff.
oal I thought that strange I see the bit at what your doc said & thought NOOO she eats LARD lol, my mum used to have dripping on bread years ago … YUK YUK & YUK lol
no, the doctor said my blood lipids were very good, he just assumed that because they were so good that I must be on a low fat diet.
Just a thought- due to the massive improvement of diagnostics over the years cancer is found more frequently and earlier. Treatments have also improved greatly and therefore people are recovering and in many cases living longer.
It does mean however that it could seem as if Cancer has increased massively but it just might be that in the past it was not able to be diagnosed and treated.
As I said - just a thought
Penicillin only started to be used in the 1940s, we have come such a long way since then.
What do they say? food is one of lifes greatest pleasures? if it makes you feel good OAL then go for it theres no point in depriving yourself unnessessarily if you realy enjoy what you eat.
Personaly ive always cooked homemade meals,am 90% organic,dont like Beef only time i ever use a “little” steak is when i make cornish pastys (cant resist a pasty lol)never drunk Alcohol and never been overweight! (Still got BC though).
Think we need to rewind the clock back to the war yrs,food was rationed,everyone had allottments, people were poorer but they were much much healthier!!
I remember my granny use to rub Goose Fat in my chest everyday when i had the whooping cough lol it certainly got rid of it!
She also used to cook stuff like pigs trotters,stuffed heart and all these weird and wonderfull concoctions it certainly didnt do her any harm as she lived to 100!!
If it makes you feel good go for it , Balance and Moderation is the Key!
Linda x
OAL - you’re post did make me laugh. I’d love you to tell your doctor next time they say you’re lipids are low that you eat lard - would be worth it to see their faces!
I absolutely love my food and like you, I think that the meat should be the best quality it can. I’ve recently started having a bit of lamb which I never used to like. Now I enjoy its stronger flavour and I eat less of it at a meal than say chicken.
I couldn’t go without my veg though especially salad which I love.
But you’re obviously doing something right if you’ve maintained your weight like that. Could it be all that drumming perhaps?! Elinda x
I asked about alchohol and chemo - no problem I was told, just not on the day you receive the chemo (liver/kidneys got enough to do!) What made me laugh in the report was "60% reduction in death for any reason) or words to that effect - hey up ladies, death at some point is 100% guaranteed! Not trying to be morbid, just, no matter if we eat air instead of lard (love it OAL)… we’ll still meet our maker…
Hi ragamuffin,
You make a very good point about how massive the improvements have been in recent yrs with much earlier diagnostics and the far better treatments that are available today,this certainly would account for a large proportion of the increase of cancer rates seen today,certainly people are living much longer nowadays compared to yrs gone by when the average lifespan was 30+.
I think a lot of people still view cancer as a relitivly new desease which of course it isnt.The first ever case of BC recorded gos as far back as 3000 B.C so humans have certainly battled cancer throughout their existence, in any rate certainly way before Processed foods/Growth Hormones/Pesticides/Binge Drinking/ HRT/The Pill/ ect ect.
Theres a great site on the history of cancer and its treatments over the years which is realy interesting if anyone hasnt seen it before.
cancerquest.org/cancer-timeline-introduction
I think youve raised a very valid point and its one we often forget to take into account.
Linda x
Thanks for that Linda very interesting.
The reason I posted this is because a couple of days ago I met a woman who told me that she had refused surgery/medical treatment for her small primary breast cancer, and was intending to “cure” her breast cancer by following the Dean Ornish programme (this would involve following a low fat vegetarian diet, excercise, meditation etc), and frankly I was horrified by this. While people are perfectly entitled to make their own decisions with regard to treatment, I believe they should do so after considering all the evidence. But people, like the woman I am referring to, buy books like The Breast Cancer Prevention Diet by Dean Ornish, et al, and because they have been told that he is a serious scientist who has done research on the link between diet and cancer, they don’t bother to look any further . The trouble is, Ornish’s research looked at the link between diet and prostrate cancer ( not breast), and some reviews of his work suggest the research was flawed and incomplete. Ornish is also criticised for applying his findings to breast cancer.
All I would say to people like the woman I refer to above is, before making these radical decisions, please look at all the evidence. The EPIC Study that I have mentioned shows no link between diet and breast cancer, and the Journal of American Medicine have also carried out research which shows no link between diet and breast cancer (see link below).
I couldn’t agree more that changes to diet should not be a replacement for medical treatment.
I’ve made a lot of changes to my diet, I believe these are based on the best available research evidence we have to date. We could probably argue ad infinitum about the interpretation of the EPIC study and it’s various studies so we each have to make our own decision on whether or not to make dietary changes.
BUT I have also had surgery, chemo and rads and now tamoxifen. I would always say to other women that dietary changes are advisable in addition to all the conventional treatments you can get.
Elinda x
yes I quite agree. I was sent a book on how to reduce my lump through meditation. i quitely threw it in the bin.
My chinese doctor is helping my with all this, but he never tells you not to take the conventional method. Belt and braces he says.
Whether or not diet is irrelevant to cancer,there are many more reasons for a healthy balanced diet.I worked with obese children for many years and saw all the problems it caused them.I don’t eat large amounts of dairy because i believe it helps with my arthritis.
I eat eggs because I am prone to anaemia.
I only eat some amounts of red meat occassionally because heart disease and stroke runs in my family.
For the same reason I eat whoemeal bread,pasta etc,lots of fruit and veg and try to keep my alcohol intake low.
I nursed my mother for 5 years through a stroke, a disease that takes away all your choices.
If by eating a healthier diet means I can avoid heart problems,stroke
and along the way it helps with the cancer,then that is a win,win.
I like treats as much as everyone else,so yes i eat cake,chocolate,have a glas of wine,but in moderation.
The way i look at it eating things that may or may not cure cancer will not kill me,but who knows they may just save me so worth a go.
Others are taking the link between diet and cancer seriously - as seen by the research quoted in this thread and in the following research
againstbreastcancer.org.uk/our-research/improving-breast-cancer-survival/
Interesting that the Against Breast Cancer charity has a strong focus on secondary bc too. But we have to wait for results…
Still personally think the link between exercise and diet needs further investigation rather than each separately and they interact so significantly.
Frances, I think it’s brilliant that scientists are investigating whether diet has any effect on breast cancer, and I’m all in favour of healthy eating for general good health. All I’m saying is that peeps should consider all the evidence before rejecting conventional medicine in favour of alternative medicine. By all means consider the Ornish lifestyle, but also look at the EPIC and JAMA studies (and for goodness sake don’t reject surgery, and rely on diet etc).
Absolutely agree with you Lemongrove - I’ve always seen conventional and “alternative” approaches as complementary and necessary so would hate anyone to take any simplistic view as I believe it’s about us working in partnership with professionals in full respect of our bodies and health.
Hi Lemongrove,im tottally with you on this one, it always concerns me greatly when i hear of people shunning medical treatments/advice ect in favor of the latest anti-cancer quack theory/diet/pills/potions ect that are thrusted upon all of us online nowadays.
You only have to type “Cancer” into any search engine and IMEADIATELY we are all bombarded with every ALT anti-cancer Book/Website/Rubbish/Twaddle going which is specifically aimed at very frightened and vulnerable people in order to make a fast buck.
Having never being known to “keep quiet” when i read of something online that is put up as fact or is questionable in nature like you i believe wholeheartedly that it is vitaly important for people to have access to ALL the Evidence/Studies that are available so that people are able to make these informed and important decisions for themselves,whatever that may be, otherwise people can become brainwashed or dare i say indoctrinated into believing something/anything that often isnt entirely accurate .
Im realy sorry to hear about the woman you recently met who has decided to forego convensioal treatment in favor of ALT sadly though i think her story is not unusal.
Whats the Harm?
The internet is a wonderfull tool in many ways but its certainly no substitute for proper informed Medical Knowledge and Advice.
Linda x
Just two more things.
(1) While most people can see hocus-pocus for what it is, many find it very difficult to recognise quackery (particularly when someone is desperate), because quackery purports to have a scientific basis.
(2) Even those who recognise quackery, then often fail to recognise that science is frequently driven by commercial interests. There are hucksters in every walk of life, and medicine is no exception, because there is very good money to be made from selling lifestyle books etc.
Even the medical profession can be duped by quackery. For example, I have just come back from attending a course at a quite well known charity, where they advocate the Ornish philosophy (I must add they also advocate conventional medicine), and listened to a GP telling the group assembled, that there is evidence which supports the view that meditation and visualisation can influence gene expression, and re-activate killer cells to fight cancer. Now I don’t know if that is right or wrong, and no doubt there is something that passes as scientific evidence for that, but I am the type to question these things, and would never abandon conventional medicine in favour of alternative medicine. However, there is a phrase amongst the legal profession that is “you take your victim how you find them”. In other words, you don’t know who is in your audience, and how they may react. Amongst the group I was in were two woman who had decided to reject conventional medicine for alternative - so this information may have reinforced their determination to do something that may have very serious consequences.
Oh my goodness, thats actualy very alarming to hear lemongrove i think i may know of the charity you might be refering to .
For anyone who has any doubts about wesites/books/cancer remedies/charities ect you can type in any web address here to see a summery of that sites crediencials.
quackometer.net/?page=quackometer
Also Quackwatch has a lot of info for Cancer Patients re any ALT methods.
quackwatch.com/00AboutQuackwatch/altseek.html
Meditation and visualisation can influence gene expression? ummmmm, that sounds like a lot of pseudoscience to me but quite possibily there is some obscure peice of research somewhere on the subject which will no doubt be adamently refuted by reptuable science as a whole, very worrying though i think i would have been running for the nearest train station!.
The course you have just attended (do they sell anti-cancer diet books/expensive suppliemts ect?) most reptuable cancer charities/organisations DONT, nevertheless sadly witnessing 2 women during your stay who had decided to reject conventional medicine for alternative is testiment to how very powerfull and harmfull the promotion of ALT can be sometimes i would hope that the charity concerned also seriously encouaged those ladies to reconsider conventional medicine also , it certainly is a huge problem .
Hopefully most people CAN see the difference between hocus-pocus and creditable science , but sadly like you i also have witnessed all to many people reading something which sounds scientificly sound and believeing it religiously without doing any further research of their own,i think for those of us who are familiar with decifering between reading through all the research it very soon becomes apparent that for every study that concludes one particular theory there will be a dozen others that will refute it.
Most people i expect dont have the time or the inclination to want to wade through every piece of research SO its vitaly important that cancer websites/forums ect are balanced and unbiast in supplying information to its readers especialy when they are on an open public domain as there is a duty of care not only its members but the public as a whole.
Thanks for highlighting this Lemongrove and for bringing this issue to everyones attension.
Linda x
I agree with you both it is worrying when someone chooses to go the alternative route INSTEAD OF … alot of alternative theropies work wonders along side conventional medcines. Meditation is a very powerful tool Ive done it for years now & if I hadn’t I wouldn’t have coped with all this BC as well as I have done. The ‘MIND’ is a very powerful thing, science has shown evidence for years that those who live in fear & helplessness tend to have more illnesses than those who learn through whatever means to relax & switch off
Im all for meditation as something that works along side any stressfull situation in life it helps with ‘disconnecting’ from the source of anxierty & when you’ve practiced it for a long time its like having an extra coping ‘tool’ for life