I am a skeptic. My worries about complementary therapies are firstly that they are not evidence-based and secondly that they encourage people to be dependent upon them because they do not have an end date.
A friend of mine has used complementary therapies but now finds it impossible to stop because she doesn’t know “which things are working, if any at all”. I feel that she has become frightening not only of stopping the complementary therapies but of life itself. She has described her life as “walking on a tightrope”.
Most of the women posting on this thread are using complementary therapies. Can I ask you four quick questions.
Do you intend to continue with complementary therapies for ever?
If so, why?
If not, how will you know when is the right time to stop?
What do your complementary therapy practitioners recommend?
I have asked these kinds of questions before but to no avail. I’m hoping that this time people might consider replying. I know that BC is very frightening but I think that these are important issues to discuss.
You ask some very good questions. I had lumpectomy in June this year and then 5 weeks of rads and finished at beginning of Sept. I’m taking Vitamin D3, Turmeric and Green Tea tablets - obviously none of us knows what, if anything, really works against recurrence, so I suppose I am thinking of taking them indefinitely although probably not the Vitamin D in the summer. I take Green Tea tablets simply because I can’t stand the taste of green tea when drinking it - but if I could then I would class that as a drink and not just a supplement. This is just my research on the Internet and not because someone has prescribed anything for me. Many BC patients are very low in Vitamin D, so I suppose it would be possible to have a blood test to check that and if it was normal then perhaps I would stop it. I feel that many people are taking Tamoxofen for years and as I can’t have that I’m just making my own efforts to see if it helps. If I get secondaries then I’ll know it didn’t!!
I think maybe your friend needs help if she’s feeling that she’s becoming irrationally dependent upon something whatever kind of therapy. I noticed a lot people feel quite insecure when they reach the end of their hormone therapies too, so it does make sense that it would apply to other things too.
I will continue to use the kind of remedies I did before I was diagnosed which really isn’t a lot because I’m not generally ill. There aren’t any remedies I’m personally taking for anything cancer related just my normal bits like arnica for bumps and bruises.
The only thing I have taken up is green tea because it’s better for me that the copious amounts of lucozade I drink
Complementary medicine is such a vague term though so I’m not really sure what you’re hoping to find out.
But I think you’ll find quite a few people stay away from these discussions because some people challenge these points of view quite aggressively and who needs that, especially on these forums.
Sue,
I have always used lavender and chamomile oil for migraines/anxiety, herbal teas for sleep, and have recently enjoyed having massages to ease tension in my neck and shoulders - money permitting I will continue with all these things, as anything which promotes relaxation and wellbeing is good for me - I don’t see them as treating the BC though, only making the emotinal tension easier to deal with.
you’re not from a pharma company are you? It’s just htat your post sounds a bit staged - like a negative publicity campaign. Obviously i apologise if you’re not.
For my part i have become dependent on my chinese herbs because they work, and because i feel a lot worse when i don’t take them. In this case, i don’t think dependence on something that’s helping is a bad thing. I also don’t think dependence on eating a healthy diet; which is what a lot of therapies say to do, is a bad thing, or making sure you’re getting the right minerals. As for things like ozone therapy, i haven’t tried them, but certainly would if i needed to.
I have tried a few complementary therapies however (particularly chinese medicines) and didn’t find the experience scary at all. I found it gave me hope, while every time i go to my western doctor i come out stressed and upset.
Hi Supersue,
It seems to me that there is quite a lot of aggression on your part about complementary therapies and I am interested in that!! It probably is not useful on this site to use agression as a lot of us are in very vulnerable situations and are looking for support, comfort and positve vibes…
The argument that people get hooked just doesn’t hold water for me. People get hooked on anything and everything in this world!! and if some people do get dependent on a particular therapy, what actually is the harm in that anyway?
It all depends on your view point and background regarding this discussion, if you are from the medical model approach, which I think you are? then complementary medicine is always seen as a bolt on. But people from a holistic approach, see thinks very differently.
Using your friend as an example is not really useful as it seems that just adds fuel to your argument.
From my experience as a psychotherapist, some people use complementary therapies on and off throughout their lives. some need more support at different times in their lives and some people continually use their services and this is okay with me.
The argument about evidence base is always a difficult one. Pharmacuticals have lots of money to spend on promoting their particular drugs…this is not so in the complementary world.
The facts that more and more people use complementary medicine and get support, help and often cure, says more to me than all the clinical trials that are carried out.
People look for not just the physical cure, but the spiritual and emotional support that complementary therapies can offer and how can that be measured scientifically?
Alternative therapies are always attacked and criticised and this is not new. I myself have been involved with Alternative therapies for over 30 years and my life has been enriched in more ways than mainstream medicine could ever do!!!
Comments please!!!
Leadie
Lots of interesting points here, but I am just going to pick up on the lack of end date one.
I do a number of things that I feel are good for me or which make me feel good. For example, I try to have good brisk walks which I believe are good for my health given my sedentary job. Reading a good book and taking long baths with lots of bubbles are both activities that make me feel relaxed. These have no end date, and although I wouldn’t say I intend to carry on with them for ever, I certainly intend to do so while I can and I feel they do me good.
This may mean that I am dependent on walking, reading and hogging the bathroom, but so long as these activities enhance my life I don’t have a problem with that.
It would be different if I felt I was dependent on something that was likely to cause me damage or if I felt I was likely to have a major panic because I couldn’t walk, read or take long baths. I think this is probably the key point for me.
Just wanted to say in reply to Joyv11 that Super Sue has been around the boards for at least a couple of years and has had, like most of us, a very difficult and painful time with breast cancer.
I know this isn’t the place for this discussion but if we were able to have a little biography accessible by clicking on our user names then this sort of situation wouldn’t arise i.e. Sue wouldn’t be asked if she was from a pharma company or if she has had breast cancer because we could all click on her name and read her story.
Re complementary therapies I had reflexology when I was going thru chemo and found it relaxing. I stopped it myself when I finished chemo as I didn’t feel I needed it (and was too busy and too tired to do it!). Personally I would turn to conventional medicine every time as I don’t think there is a lot of evidence for complementary therapies. But if individuals find they work - brilliant.
Sue, sounds to me like your friend might need some conventional psychological help like counselling or psychotherapy? Maybe what she’s feeling isn’t really about the complementary therapy she is having but is more about her own state of mind, do you think she could be anxious or depressed - maybe she should talk things over with her GP?
Hi Rowena, and thanks for that. It makes sense now why she is so angry! We all deal with the anger in different ways and can push it into anything, like complementary therapies!!!
Best wishes Leadie
I was diagnosed in 2003 with two grade three tumours. I underwent a mastectomy, chemotherapy (epirubicin plus CMF), radiotherapy, and hormone treatment (zoladex plus tamoxifen). A couple of years later I had a delayed reconstruction, a new technique - latissimus dorsi plus liposuction.
I had a significant delay in diagnosis and so haven’t always had the best medical treatment but am generally supportive of the medical profession and enthusiastic about science.
My apologies if I’ve offended anyone. The questions are real and ones worth considering. The friend is real too, just in case anyone is in any doubt. I’ve posted on the website since 2004 but less frequently over the last year due to work commitments.
I certainly didn’t find Sue’s original post aggressive. But some of the responses have been tinged with hostility! Why is it so difficult to have a rational discussion about complimentary therapies?
I guess that, first of all, we have to define what we mean by “complementary therapies”. Secondly, as various people have pointed out, evaluation is difficult and often reliant on anecdotal evidence.
Thirdly - and this, for me, is an important one - many complementary therapies are largely unregulated and there are some “practitioners” about who are only too happy to prey on the vulnerable.
Having said that, I agree that some therapies can be useful in terms of well-being or in helping with chemo side effects. For example, I can’t see the slightest reason for homeopathy to work, and yet many people (including on these forums) swear by it and you can be treated homeopathically by the NHS in some areas. And even rational old me has considered acupuncture for peripheral neuropathy.
It’s easy to see the attraction of alternative and complementary therapies, especially given the intrusive, impersonal, aggressive and “big science” nature of Western medicine’s BC treatments. I’ve known two women separately go down the holistic route after cancer diagnoses. Neither are with us now, but it was what they wanted and believed was right.
Maybe your friend, Sue, should consider counselling, and dropping therapies one by one to see what’s working, or not.
I’m someone who is also sceptical of alternative medicines…or rather I am sceptical of any medicnes which have not been tested through scientifc methods. Unlike alternativists I don’t think there is some kind of ‘alternate’ ctiteria of proof for say crystal helaing or homeopathy. The double blind sceintific trial is the soundest test of any medicine.
I have enjoyed aromatharapy massgaes…the massge bit that is…not the earnest and well meant attempt that the aromotherpist makes to deal with me as a ‘whole person’ by asking me earnestly ‘how I am’ so she cna choose the ‘right’ oils. It makes me giggle.
I agree that many alternative threpaists do, through their excellent communication skills, help many patients to feel better…not all are as clumsy as my young aromatherapist. I think that alopathic doctors have learned a lot from this kind of patient care and my experience these days is that most of the doctors and nurses I come across in alopathic medicine have developed those skills.
I think some alternative tretaments can help people feel better, but I feel really angry about those that make unprovable and unevidenced claims about curing illnesses.
I think its a scandal that homeopathy is provided anywhere on the NHS. Trial after trial has shown it simply does not work. I blame the Prince of of Wales myself.
Thank you very much for all your replies. They are certainly food for thought. It’s clear that for some people complementary therapies are there to relieve symptoms and emotional tension and are therefore used only when needed. For some people complementary therapies supply hope and for others they provide a more holistic approach than the NHS can supply.
I suppose I had hoped for a simple solution to my friend’s issues but I don’t think there is one and it’s hard to stand on the sidelines and watch someone having difficulties. I do wonder whether complementary therapy is not for everyone - not in terms of people’s preferences but in terms of people’s personalities. For some people maybe it increases fear rather than reduces it. However, this is a bit theoretical and I’m aware that people are in the midst of BC treatment and need all the support they can get.
There have been some good comments and I’m glad that at least we’ve broached the subject of complementary therapies, dependence and end-dates. I think that it’s okay to talk about these things without the discussion being seen as an attack or some form of negativity.
For those of you who are in the middle of treatment - life does get easier with time. I can say this being almost six years post-diagnosis. I hope that you all have a very enjoyable and restful Christmas and a celebratory New Year. As far as Christmas complementary therapies are concerned I recommend at least a small glass of champagne.
I’m not sure what type of therapies your friend is having, but I had Reiki during chemo and found it very relaxing. Now I use acupuncture for hot flushes. For me this really does work. I had a few sessions to begin with, I think the effect slowly built up, my last one was August which was the best, the relief was instant, and lasted me up to a month or so ago, now my hot flushes are slowly becoming more unbearable so I will book in for some more acupuncture in the new year. I will continue the acupuncture sessions as long as the hot flushes continue.
JaneRA: I too blame the Prince of Wales, who also hugely overcharges for his chocolate butterscotch biscuits. Which have no therapeutic value whatever. Or maybe…
There is no doubt that a double blind, randomised controlled clinical trial is the gold standard for scientific evidence. However, one of the problems with alternative therapies is the lack of funding for research. Clearly, for any drug, the drug companies have millions invested for their research. However, I do agree that some therapies are probably are only useful for promoting well being, which isn’t a bad thing in itself, but won’t cure or do anything major. I do think the only exception is possibly the Chinese therapies such as acupuncture and their medicine. They have been around a lot longer than our allopathic western medicine and in China are used alongside orthodox treatments such as surgery and drugs to promote total well-being. This seems such as good concept as orthodox treatment for example, breast cancer, just targets the cancer and tends to ignore the rest of the person. People are much greater than the sum of their parts, so surely there is room for both, like the Chinese as long as they are regulated very carefully and have adequate funding for research to prove their efficacy and safety.
You have misunderstood me - I said there are room for both types of medicine, alternative and orthodox, just like the Chinese practice. I then went on to say as long as they are regulated etc. I simply meant our alternative therapies used in this country, not the Chinese. I have no idea what the regulations are regarding Chinese medicine in China and am not advocating the use of Chinese medicine per se, just advocating their holistic approach to treatment! I too am not happy with the use of animals for medicines, but in the West, many thousands of animals are cruelly treated to test drugs and therapies, many of which are used in breast cancer treatment. Granted, they are usually rats, not bears and tigers, but nonetheless are animals. However, this is moving away from the original subject.
