Fed up, sidelined with secondaries

Oh I am so fed up. Apologies in advance for the rant, especially as I have read of yet another of our members passing away, I feel so sad and scared, it feels so selfish to be having a whinge.

Since being told I have extensive bone metastases last June ,I have felt sidelined and pushed aside by my hospital, as if I am no longer important or intelligent enough to comprehend information or be given time or choices in my treatment. I go to the Oncology clinic every 3 weeks now to receive the briefest of consultations with my Oncologist, who is assisted by a Health Care assistant. I don’t get to see a nurse to ask any questions. I am on Capecitabine and Vinoralbine orally so am pretty tied to a tablet routine and blood test routine then have to ring for results, BUT why do I feel as if I am just a neurotic nuisance?

In November I applied to my insurance company for a terminal illness payout. I had discussed this with my previous oncologist (who I changed as she was the archetypal grim-reaper) and she was not prepared to say that I would die within a year as per insurance company requirements. I re-discussed this with my present Oncologist and he said he was prepared to do the paperwork as my prognosis was uncertain and he could not say for sure that I would still be alive in a year’s time. After many phone calls to Onc’s secretary chasing the report (always being told it was not a priority) the letter went off without a copy being sent to me for approval. Anyway, I had a phone call from Insurance company last Friday saying their medical officers felt my prognosis was “not too bad” at the moment so claim turned down. The policy expires next year so I am in the very last period of time when I could have put in the claim. I have had to give up work so that money would have helped so much. I don’t understand how they can stipulate a time limit for being terminal.

My head is a mess. I feel let down by my first Oncologist who failed to spot signs of secondaries in 2010/11 then told me my CT scan was clear last June only to recall me a week later to say it was far from okay. She offered me no further treatment when Exemestane failed to halt my rising tumour markers and sent me away to die – saying 18 months was the median survival time for someone with secondaries. I went for 2nd opinion at the Royal Marsden and whilst they suggested further chemo (which I am now on) their letter was not very encouraging either saying I had relapsed very quickly after initial treatment and whilst further chemo might help slow things down, this was unusual. Reading on the bone mets and other threads I realise that many of you ladies have had great success with oral chemo but how many have not?

I feel a nuisance every time I have to call for help, which is not often as I am an experienced nurse and do not panic at the slightest twinge. I called the out of hours service last week in the early hours as I was experiencing severe chest/gastric pain, brought on ,I believed , my evening dose of Capecitabine. A Nurse Practitioner and student nurse came to see me and concluded that it was not heart or embolism and suggested a warm bath and fizzy drink, nothing for the pain (I had tried my usual remedies including Oromorph). I suffered all night and next day as couldn’t get to see my GP until 5.20. She diagnosed oesophagitis and gave me Buscopan and Lansoprazole to settle things down.

3 years ago I was an intelligent healthcare professional getting on with my life, now I feel like a child with no access to details about me (refused copies of my latest mri & ct scans) no say in what happens to me and tied to the hospital with so many appts. Of course I am grateful for all the care I have had but the recent patient satisfaction questionnaire I received rather summed everything up with its questions about privacy, dignity, communication etc and one of my real bugbears – “do the staff ask by what name you would like to be addressed”. No they NEVER do and I hate being called by my full name as it takes me back to my childhood days. No privacy as an in-patient that’s for sure.

Just to add to everything, my son, now 28, was diagnosed with Non-Hodgkins lymphoma in 2009, 3 weeks after my BC diagnosis, we went through chemo at the same time and it was my worst nightmare come true. He has been well up until recently, and I try my best to support him and my daughter to get on with their lives and not let everything be spoiled by what has happened and what is happening to me. He is now having scans for persistent back pain which, although probably just as a precaution is just so worrying. I just don’t know how I will cope if he turns out to have secondaries too, surely life can’t be so cruel, yet I know it can.

Sorry for the rant, I may not even post this, have done it as a word document in case I lose it. Am not expecting anyone to come up with magic answers. I have rung one of the BCNs and she is going to try to attend my next Oncology appt. Thanks for listening. Hope everyone else is having a better day.

Hey HappyFeet,

Gosh you sound like your having a nightmare, well thats an understatement actually, really really feel for you as I have secondaries on both my lungs, cannot believe they wont give you that insurance money, makes me so angry thinking about all the years you worked as a nurse paying into a system and then not benefiting from it when you really need it, sorry I don’t have any answers to that other than possibly contacting your local citizens advice centre and see if they think you have a right to appeal or take the insurance company to court, having said all that you really don’t need this c*@p. So sad too hear about your son, you must be going out of your mind with worry and this on top of all what you have been going through HUGZ to you.

I know what you mean about being ‘sidelined’ I feel the same way as you do, feel like I am being ignored and that they can’t do anymore!!! I finished rads on the 25th of Jan 2012 and have not heard from the hospital since, i am having at home herceptin but apart from that thats the only contact with a health professional chemo nurse I have had, I am anxious to have another scan my last one was Oct last year even tho my onc said I would be having them every 3 months turns out to be at least 5 months since last one, I have been to my GP and they have said they will write to my onc and ask about a new scan since I have finished rads and I do have multiple mets to both lungs!!! its exasperating to say the least. Your not a neurotic nuisance, you have a great deal on your plate, do the oncs. GP etc know about your son’s dx? do they realize what you are dealing with? Please don’t for one minute think you are a nuisance, your worried and thats only natural given the circumstances. Take heart we are here for you rant away all you want, we are here holding your hand all the way.

sending you much love and light
sarahlousie xxx

Hi Happyfeet,

Sorry to hear that you’re feeling this way, do give the helpline here a ring if you need a good listening ear, they’re here to support you through this.

Take care,
Jo, Facilitator

Hi Happyfeet

I am so so sorry that you are going through this nightmare. I’ve just started it. I know what you mean about life being cruel. I now know that it is not true to say " it won;t happen to me" or that something won;t happen because you have had your fair share of sh**: life can be really really cruel. it is so unfair when you see others who appear to be floating through their life without a care in the world. Give me money worries, job loss, house loss - all of it in return for my health.

Why don’t you see about getting a second opinion to submit to the insurers and fight it out. They are going to do all they can not pay out- i am fulling expecting a fight for my critical illness one and I am up for it. You might want to see if you can ask for your papers to be referred to another consultant of more standing whose opinion weighs more.

I am thinking of you x

hi happyfeet
so sorry you are still not getting the treatment you deserve.I had my treatment at Leicester,chemo and rads,and had really good treatment.I did not get further down the line but the oncologist I had was all for agressive treatment.I can give you her name if that were an option for you.I know a lot of ladies went there in preference to Lincoln.
Have you tried complaining to PALS about them sending your insurance claim without your permission or in fact about your general treatment.
So sorry to hear about you son,maybe you should explain to your team the stress you are under.
Don’t know if they can help with advice on your insurance claim but maybe macmillan have an adviser or as SarahLouise says citizen advice.It all just takes up energy you don’t have.
Since getting a second opinion at the Royal Marsden I have stayed there for my treatment,mainly because I get regular scans which is something I had to fight for in West Sussex.
It really makes me angry that when we have secs we have to fight for treatment.

Hi happyfeet
I just want to say that I agree with everyone else here. Your experience sounds dreadful. I got a second opinion from the marsden and stayed with them for my treatment. They completed all my life insurance forms at the marsden and I received payment in the middle of last year. the secondary breast cancer nurses there have been wonderful and have helped me with all my forms - disability allowance,blue badge etc.
I was also reffered to the Macmillan nurses via my GP. They come to visit me regularly and are helpful in so many ways I can’t begin to list them!
Mxx

Happyfeet, it sounds like nothing is going your way, and you have my sympathy, but if I might be so bold, I think the main thing is to focus on the here and now - because you can’t change the past, and you can’t prevent those you love from becoming ill). Obviously, you’ve had a bad experience with your last Oncologist, and it’s understandable that you feel bitter (and as Lucinda say’s people with secondaries shouldn’t have to fight for treatment). But the sad fact is that people with secondaries do frequently have to fight for treatment. Like you, my first Oncologist was terrible, and I also voted with my feet (and I know several others who have had similar problems).
It’s good that you have moved to the Marsden, because you’re getting treatment now, but if you feel they are not being communicative /pro-active / encouraging, why not explain how you feel? Maybe you could take someone along to give you moral support? With regard to the insurance situation, and worries about your son, why not ask for an appointment with a Breast Care Nurse at your next consultation, and talk things through?
Finally, I know this is no consulation, but if your Oncologist is uncertain about your prognosis, surely that is preferable to a certain terminal prognosis? The words that have given me most comfort (and may also comfort you), were spoken by my Oncologist. He said people simply do not die of bone metastases. So when the think the grim reaper is looking over your shoulder, poke him in the eye.

Thanks for your kind words and understanding ladies. Just to clarify, lest it appear that I am just a moaning minnie unable to get on with any Oncologist - I went for 2nd opinion at the Marsden, they gave advice on treatment but said best to stay with local hospital, which I have done but changed Oncologist hence stuck in the same system.

Lemongrove, I read your posts and know that you are very knowledgeable. I wish either of my Oncologists had said that “you don’t die of bone mets”, I’ve had a much blacker picture painted and I can’t seem to un-paint it, however much I try to live in the here and now.I spoke to a BCN yesterday at my local hospital and she is coming to my appt tomorrow with me. I will try not to get worked up or tearful. Best wishes everyone x

Hi Happyfeet

Aargh - the curse of the wrongly-hit-key. Had just typed a post of epic proportions and it disappeared.

Sorry you’ve been having a rubbish time of it.

The jist of my incredibly long post:

I was treated in Northants - not impressed with staff attitude to stage IV
Had second opinion at the Marsden who said have chemo locally
Had chemo locally but things got worse to the point that I started to dread going to see anyone (apart from the chemo staff who were fab)
Went to see GP and voted with my feet. Transferred to the Marsden
Go down a couple of times every 2-3 months for scans / results (usually 3-4 days apart). 150 mile round trip on the train but can book cheap seats in advance and also get a couple of days out in London which is always good for the soul!
Have arranged to have my monthly Zometa locally and GP has been brilliant in helping to arrange this.

At the moment, I’m just on Tamoxifen so this is manageable and not sure how I would cope if I had to go back on mega-chemo like TAX.

However, it’s worth it, not to get the Stage IV stare ("You’re stuffed - why bother?)

Feel free to pm me if you want a chat (about the Marsden or anything else)

Hugs

Laurie x

I lost the end of my posting so will add a postscript.
Like Laurie I go the Royal Marsden(but Sutton) and still have all my active treatment locally which means I only come into contact with the friendly chemo nurses when having zometa.
When i was at the marsden last week the registrar gave me a copy of my bone scan.I must admit this is a first but a do get a copy of all my consultation letters.Sometimes they miss me out so I just get a copy form gp(after the usual grilling by receptionist!)
There is also a specialist secondary bc nurse at the Marden,something I feel essential to sec bc patients.I do sometimes speak to bc at local hospital but if it is something specifically to do with mets she cannot always help.
I am having op at the RM next week to remove the only operable bit of cancer,I feel I can cope emotionally with the bone mets as like Lemongrove I was told I would not die from bone mets alone.
Hope it helps to have bc nurse at appointment.
take care
Lxx

Happyfeet, you’re definitely not a moaning minnie (and I’m sorry if my comments came across that way). You’ve had a huge amount of cr*p dumped on you, and you’re entitled to feel fed up.
I only posted because I think that when we get numerous problems to deal with, we try to deal with them all (including those we cannot change), and then end up feeling overwhelmed.
I’m glad you will have the BC Nurse at your next appointment. Do they have an advocate system at your hospital? I know at Charing Cross they have volunteers who accompany patients to appointments and speak up for them if the patient wishes. This disease can make the most independent and articulate person feel powerless, and thats when we need an ally.

Hi all,

I was in two minds wheter to post this but here goes. It is possible to die from bone only mets, or at least the side effects of them. My mums broke her neck which meant an awful head position resulting in pneumonia and then she died on 3rd feb. I too had gone through the time since she was diagnosed thinking as long as it stayed in the bones she would be fine, whilst I realise my mums case is rare, the shock of her death has been immense as I just didn’t think it would happen with bone only mets.

Not meaning to be the grim reaper but I unfortunately have to disagree that you can’t die from bone only,mets :frowning:

Wishing you all every success with your treatments

Gemma

Gemma, really very sorry to read about your mum. You’re right of course, that if bone mets fracture it can start a chain of events that lead to death - and of course any metastatic cancer is potentially life threatening because cancer can spread to vital organs. I think the message I was trying to convey is, don’t assume that death is imminent because you have bone mets, because people can and do live with them for many years. Hence, what my Oncologist meant was that bone mets per se do not kill people.

I’ve been reading all your posts, so thank you happy feet, as I feel quite similar to you. Ive started to doubt my treatment is active enough. I’ve been freaked out and disturbed sometimes when I have read posts, as if they disrupted the status quo. I even got to the point that i didnt want to post or read forums any more! But I’m so grateful to have read them now, because I’m now getting a second opinion. I will have all off you to thank if I am offered a better treatment plan, and if not, at least I will know I’m getting what I should! We deserve so much better! Xxxx Katy

Golightly, I think it’s wonderful that you can now see both sides of the story. We all want to trust our doctors and have confidence in our treatment plans, but trust and confidence come from knowledge rather than blind faith. In an ideal world all doctors would be on top of their game, and dedicated to giving the best treatment possible irrespective of cost - but we don’t live in an ideal world.
Personally, I feel in safe hands with my medical team, but that is because I question/research absolutely everything.

Just been reading these posts and wondering how is happy feet? I’ve been wondering how you are coping. Im getting my second opinion tomorrow. I’m not expecting miracles, but already my current onc has gone from saying they will not be re scanning to check how mets responding to treatment, to saying I will be having bone scan and ct in June. This makes me feel like I’m worth it, rather than on the scrap heap! Xx to everyone x

Lemon grove, love your new picture, who is the lovely baby? Xx

Just got back from seeing onc for second opinion and all I can say is it was money well spent ! Xx to everyone