fighting cancer with just diet

Public Archive
81

Just wanted to say i wholeheartedly support the above comments by Linda.

NICE and all NHS consultants are under a lot of pressure not to authorise or prescribe expensive drugs or treatments, therefore anything that has passed these hurdles is almost certainly the most effective option they can currently identify. Place that against unproven theories concerning diet, and when my life was at stake the choice was an easy one to make.

However it is not an either/or, and most people make lifelstyle changes as well - I gave up diary and alcohol (save for occasional treats), and took up yoga - and feel of all of these the yoga has helped my general wellbeing the most.

These things do no harm and may do some good, but nobody knows for sure. Anecdotal examples of remissions and cures against the odds are far from proof (personally I found Jane Plants book inspiring,and still do, but its logic is undeniably flawed). The only really large scale population study (the Nurses study?) came up with the not surprising result that lack of exercise, a high fat diet and being overweight appear to be contributory causes, but acknowledged that these are difficult to separate and could not, for example, identify a particular food or environmental factor.

The pharmacutical companies may make lots of money, but they also provide cures, and the ‘alternative’ industry selling Manuka honey, supplements, diet books etc is also big business. It is very tempting to characterise one as ‘self serving and greedy’ and the other as somehow on a higher moral plane, and there is also a tendency to view those who go along with what their doctors tell them as lacking in critical judgment, and those who try different options as being more intelligent, in control and generally discerning. All these are as much mythologies of cancer as those promulgated in the popular press (often criticised on these forums). Each person is entitled to place their trust in whoever they choose, and for me an intelligent, experienced, senior oncologist seems a good place to start.

Sarah

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I really don’t think that the medical profession is as dependent on drug reps as you think. If you look at any of the medical/ nursing journals you will find a huge variety of research that is not drug based, and I know that when I was a specialist palliative care nurse ( now retired) we all made an effort to keep up to date with all good research. The food supplement /special diet industry is big business and I can see no reason why it can’t fund good trials. Until these trials are done I will take the advice given by the unregulated diet industry with a large pinch of salt.

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Anyone who thinks medical professionals are only guided by drug companies are very wrong. I am involved in a double blind research programme at the moment where food supplements versus placebo are being trialled for use in dentistry. If it is shown that these work, then they will be used in everyday treatment alongside the conventional treatment as an adjunct. The food supplement industry is huge and believe me, nutrition in medicine is taken very very seriously. Many of the western world’s chronic illnesses can be prevented by good diet and exercise and doctors realise this and are not just prescribing drugs to patients but encouraging and helping them eat more healthily etc. The problem lies with society itself as adopting healthy behaviour is fraught with all sorts of problems - cultural, socioeconomic, psychological etc. It is a hugely onerous task, if not an impossible one. Modern medicine does seem to concentrate on the downstream problems ie treating disease once its established rather than focusing upstream and stopping people becoming ill in the first place. Changing diet to a healthy one is just one of the many issues needed.

84

Pre war people were much poorer but healthier, many had allotments grew their own veg ect, we ate apples of the trees and we wasnt so overly obsessed with cleanliness. i believe much of how we live today has weakened our immune systems to the extent that we cant fight illness and desease like we once did ,today are apples are waxed to look nice on the shelves , are food is full of pesticides and perservatives, it is well know that farmers have a high incidence of cancer is that a coincidence?
We are all exposed to much higher amounts of oestrogens than days gone by ,its found in the water,plastics , ect ect we had the boom of HRT (though never been on HRT myself)which is likely circulating in our water system along with all the other many chemicals flouride ect, did you know toothpaste containing flouride in america has a warning on the tube that if swallowed more than used for brushing to contact the poison center immediately. if you look at the safe cosmetics website you will see just how many carcinogenics are in our everyday products even supposidly safe baby products its quite astounding, since the invenion of NRT ,HRT patches ect we now know that anything you put on the skin is absorbed into the body , there is evidence that today Mens sperm counts are much lower than in years gone by also proberly due to the overload of oestrogens in all our lives. I think it was Monica who reminded us that a few years back all the fish in a river in the north east turned female because of the high amount of oestrogens found there.
I dont believe the medical profession are guided by drug companies either, yes cancer is big busisness for pharmacuieticals, but as others have said the food/diet industry is big busisness too, and these so called health shops to me have jumped on the band wagon, we didnt need suppliments years ago as we got everything we needed from our diets.
We need to wind back the clock and look at how our previous generations lived because the so called progress that we have made today i believe is killing our immune systems . Diet alone is far to simplistic with everthing else involved that contains carcinogens in our daily lives today so unless we can transport ourselves off to a desert island and all become self sufficiant in everything we do diet alone is not going to cure cancer.

So for me i will live as healthy as i can ,do everything in moderation ,put my trust in my medical team as at the end of the day however much we research these issues they have far more knowledge and expierence than anyone of us in treating cancer ,because thats my best shot ,relying on unproven methods is a huge gamble to me and not one im personaly willing to take . but all of us have to make our own choices and as i said hope it helps but only time will tell.
Linda

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I don’t think anyone here is suggesting relying on diet alone - I think it would be mad to eschew chemo and rads. I think it is equally mad not to eat the foods demonstrated to have cancer fighting abilities, and reject those that cause damage, particularly as there are so many carcinogens in the environment we can’t do anything about - but we can control the food we eat.

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finty - You said “it’s hard to think of anything that has a more direct impact on our health than what we eat every day of our lives”. Well, stress, stress and more stress has a huge impact on our health.

As regards eating the foods ‘demonstrated’ to have cancer-fighting properties, there is research showing that, whilst some of these may possibly help prevent cancer, such as anti-oxidants, they can actually encourage the growth of cancer cells in certain situations. This is why I think that everything in moderation is the way to go. Eating too many of these 'superfoods, could actually do more harm than good.

This is just one example:-

scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2009/10/02/antioxidants-and-cancer-%E2%80%93-the-plot-thickens/

There is also much debate about whether phyto-oestrogens are good or bad for people diagnosed with hormone receptive bc.

There is so much controversy about diet that none of us can truly know that the path we choose is the right one - and what is right for one is not right for someone else, depending on their genetic make up.

Ann x

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Ann I completely agree about stress, but I also think your comment on diet demonstrates a lot of people’s attitudes - it’s all so complicated so I can’t tackle it. Many foods have absolutely been demonstrated to inhibit tumour growth in mice - we won’t get the chance to experiment on people with cancer, so we only have anecdotal evidence in many cases. But a general healthy diet won’t do much for you regarding fighting cancer, because many of the foods with these cancer fighting properties are rather obscure (eg flaxseed) and need to eaten in certain ways (eg turmeric with pepper, broccoli steamed not boiled). I thought I was eating healthily - organic where possible, mainly veggie - but turns out I was clueless. It’s been a steep learning curve, but I am very glad I made the effort to find out what else I could be doing to get healthy. Regarding phyto-oestrogens, I think there is now consensus that those appearing naturally in soy foods and eaten in moderation are beneficial in that they bind with the oestrogen receptors and block the body’s own oestrogen, but supplements are dangerous.

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Sorry to diversify slightly from the context ladies; but isn’t quality of life important. And, here, I mean the quality of your individual lives and what you, personally, want to do.

If you stop doing things you enjoy (like eating “forbidden” food because it may be bad for you) or doing things you really don’t want to do (like a vegetarian diet when you are a carnivore) where is your quality of life? I am not knocking a vegetarian diet - my late husband was a vegan. I am simply saying, if we all stopped doing things because we think they are bad for us, or only did things we thought were good for us, life would be terribly boring.

So, do your own thing. Do what you want. And stop worrying.

Personally, I shall have a Beef Wellington tomorrow with Jersey Royals plus veg (which is best for BC? - you know what I don’t care). I shall also have some white wine with it.

Cheers

Lynn

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finty - It is not that I find it too complicated (I find your comment offensive, frankly) but there is so much conflicting evidence, that it is impossible to discover, definitively, which of it is right. Regarding phyto-oestrogens, of course, most people would agree that it is better to consume any food in its natural form, rather than take supplements, but the only consensus I can see regarding whether those diagnosed with bc should be consuming phyto-oestrogens, is amongst the supporters of phyto-oestrogens. Does your oncologist agree with your views? Presumably, he/she studies the research that has been published. Isn’t there that nagging doubt in your mind that you may be going down the wrong road? Whichever way I choose, I know that there will be in mine and I find that very scary. In years to come, it may turn out that you are right, but from the studies I have come across so far, I have not been convinced.

You may like to read this article:-

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/judithpotts/100039727/did-the-soya-i-took-to-cope-with-the-menopause-contribute-to-my-breast-cancer/

Ann

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Lynn thats what i was trying to say in my earlier post… that although some people find it helpful to change their diet because it helps them feel like they are doing something even if its not research based, which none of these faddy things are regardless of whether they are your run of the mill diet or or an anti-cancer diet… but if it works for the individual then go for it.

however not everybody will get a benefit from this and some people would rather live their lives to the full enjoying everything they did and more.

i personally am of the quality of life over quantity and would rather enjoy myself in the time i may or may not have on this earth, rather than be very strict just so i can live longer… but we are all very different and want different things out of life.

i think its great if people find that changing their diet helps them focus and get something out of doing that by empowering themselves and making them feel like they have a purpose, but what i worry about is that the people who dont do this feel they are somehow failing as some of the anti-cancer views can come across as quite self-righteous.

i just say each to their own and if changing your diet works for you then great, but if it doesnt dont beat yourself up over it.

Lxx

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Lynn and Lulu - I guess it depends on your prognosis. I hope yours is very positive and you beat this horrible disease. I can’t afford to be as relaxed if I want to see my children grow up - my cancer will kill me, and I will do anything to delay the process. If I never have another piece of meat I would consider that a small price to pay. It is easy to dismiss diets as faddy - The Anti-Cancer diet is science based, the book’s footnotes reference over 500 research projects. Ann - I am very sorry you found my comment offensive, I didn’t mean to imply the attitude applied to you, but it does apply to many cancer sufferers - people feel helpless in the face of conflicting advice, and finish up doing little to help themselves - personal choice of course, but to me it seems a great shame that it is not necessarily an informed choice. I think your link on soya agrees with what I said earlier - high concentration supplements are not advisable. And yes my onc is very supportive - and we had a long discussion about why onc’s generally don’t talk to patients about diet.

92

This is such an interesting thread - more than anything about people’s attitude! Finty, I think you have it spot on and good on you or doing everything you can to prolong your life!

I am a great believer in the factor of diet and environmental issues surrounding cancer. I eat super-healthy mainly to control the SE of the treatment. To me, quality of life means playing with my kids, being happy and energetic with my boyfriend and friends and being able to work and keep some normality. If that means giving up a lot of the predominately rubbish food that most people eat, then so be it!! Also it if means giving up alcohol, save for the odd glass too.

A few points:
The reason there is not billions spent on major research into herbs/diet/supplements is because these products cannot be patented. If a drugs company came out with conclusive proof that a herb stopped cancer, all the millions spent on the research would be wasted as the company could not patent the product and sell it to recoup the money.

The drugs sold to the NHS are so highly priced, not because that is the cost of production, it is the cost of the research and development

Also, I believe that the companies and the government want an instant cancer miracle drug, nice and easy. But cancer is a multi-faceted disease that this is highly unlikely. Remember, it took a very long time before it was widely accepted that cigarettes and asbestos caused lung cancer, something that no one on here would dispute.

Cancer is a disease of the immune system, chemo, rads & surgery all weaken the immune system. The only way to build it up it through diet and exercise.

The other thing is synthetic oestrogens in the environment, out water, all the soap, cleaning products, water, mdf etc etc. Get rid of a lot of those and sleep with the window open also helps.

I finished 7 rounds of chemo last 4 weeks ago and had a mx 10 days ago. The op knocked me for six an I was exhausted and achy. Finally got it together enough yesterday to have a day full of fresh and raw fruit and vege. Woken up this morning feeling 100% better and most of the aches are gone - coincidence or evidence? Who knows? But at least today I can have a good quality of life enjoying my gorgeous 7-year old boys.

ps I don’t post about my diet to boast or feel self-righteous, I genuinely want to be helpful to other women, when I was first dx, I did not find any threads on diet and truly believe is it massively important. Who knows what is right, but I am going to do anything I can to improve my chances and feel good in the mean time.

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Thanks Gretchen - I have only recently discovered the anti cancer diet (can you tell!!), and wish I had started immediately at dx, as I believe it would have improved the efficacy of chemo. Glad you are feeling better.

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Hi Ladies,
Very interesting thread…
Sorry my ‘brain’ doesn’t take too much in at the moment, so one simple question, we are told to drink lots of water during chemo, so what would you suggest we drink?
Sandra

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THREE litres of glass bottled water everyday!!

I woke up in the night a lot and made sure I drunk loads. It makes a huge difference

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Sandra - as Gretchen says, glass bottled water. Even better, make it into green tea (steep for at least 8 minutes). Plastic water bottles contain chemicals that leach into the water, particularly if they get warmed in the sun. Have you ever left a bottle of water in a warm car and noticed the horrible taste afterwards?

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Hi all…I’m a little alarmed at so much water, eg 3 litres, being drunk everyday, too much water can be counter productive. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6263029.stm

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finty - You say your oncologist is very supportive of your diet approach. I am genuinely interested to know his/her (I keep saying that because my oncologist is female) opinion on phyto-oestrogens. I am on Letrozole (an AI) and so the view concerning these would be different than for someone taking Tamoxifen.

What was your oncologist’s reasoning for not talking to patient’s about diet?

Ann

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She said that most patients wouldn’t make the changes anyway, so talking to them about it would only stress them and make them feel she is blaming them for their cancer. Also, because it is a complicated issue that can’t be explained in a factsheet, it would require recommending a book, which she thought patients would be suspicious of, and it is very important to her that she is trusted. If a patient is very anti diet and lifestyle changes, she thought it might mean some patients would lose confidence in her medical advice. She also said those most motivated to make the changes, would likely search out the information themselves - and when they come to her for an opinion she is very supportive. She also admits that it is not an area she had any training on (I would guess she is in her late 30’s, possible early 40’s). As regards the phyto-oestrogens she doesn’t claim any particular expertise, but has read the same reports I have. She is currently researching whether I can have Tamoxifen as I am already on Avastin, and I don’t think there is much known about the interaction between the two.

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belinda - I think if you drank 3 litres in a couple hours, it would be a problem. But most oncs recommend 2 - 3 litres a day, and I certainly drank 3 a day without any problems at all (except getting up every few mins to go to the loo). Chemo is exceptionally harsh on the kidneys, and without flushing the through with loads of water can cause permanent harm. Regarding the chemicals in bottled water - one of my dogs died two years ago from bladder cancer. He had a long thick coat and used to get very hot on walks - I always kept bottles of water in the car so he could have a drink at the end of the walk. Invariably for 4 or 5 months of the year the water would get that chemical taste - I now wonder if I inadvertently caused his cancer. I now take a flask instead. I have also tried to stop my children, who do a lot of sport, leaving their drinks in the sun.