Hi Chris
I haven’t read the pink ribbon diet, but the issue of cooking veg is a real one. Some veg like the brassicas (cabbage, broccoli, sprouts) lose most of their nutrients if boiled or cooked at high temperatures. Others like tomatoes need to be heated to release nutrients - tomatoes for lycopene, and carrots for betacaretanoids for example. It’s complicated!
finty x
Thanks again Finty and Elinda. I’ve just found a new milk on the ‘good oil’ website made from hemp and high in omega 3s. Anyone tried it? Apparently you can buy it in Waitrose. goodwebsite.co.uk/
Another question for the oracles! (Sorry if the answer is on here somewhere, I just can’t find it).
Re omega 6:3 ratio, am I right in thinking omega 6 is bad, but omega 3 is good in terms of bc? I’m researching oils, and the ratio in hemp oil is 3:1 which is supposed to be the ratio required by the body, whereas flax oil is 1:1. So is the hemp oil ok? I’m guessing the omega 6 is cumulative and more prevalent in foods generally, so needs to be minimised?
Thanks again, Lynne
Hi Lynne
The consensus seems to be that we should aim for a ratio of Omega 6 to Omega 3 of 2:1. This is the figure that I see used pretty much everywhere - not just cancer related, as Omega 3 is important in lots of other health fields - heart disease, stroke etc. - but I haven’t looked for any independent verification of this. Also I don’t think it’s accurate to say Omega 6 is bad per say, just that it should be balanced with sufficient Omega 3.
You are absolutely correct that Omega 6 is much more prevalent in foods - most animal protein, oils and grains are Omega 6. Omega 3 on the other hand is much harder to find in the diet unless you are an eskimo. This was not always the case, foods that used to be omega 3 (grass fed animals) are now often omega 6 due to changes in feeding - even some farmed fish are now under suspicion of containing less omega 3 as they are no longer fed an exclusively fish based diet. I’ve seen estimates that a pre-industrial age western diet would have been roughly 1:1 or 2:1, but a current American diet can be in excess of 20:1, and a poor convenience food based diet can be 40:1. Scary figures.
I think it is almost impossible to accurately calculate how much of 6 and 3 you get in your diet - so I’m just hoping my strategy of cutting down on foods containing 6, adding foods containing 3 and taking a fish oil supplement will do the job - but I have no way of knowing.
Regarding oil, I use olive oil for salads and cooking at low temperatures. Olive oil is Omega 9, so essentially neutral for the purposes of balancing 6 and 3. For high temperatures, where olive oil becomes unstable, I use coconut oil which contains short chain fatty acids and Lauric Acid, for which there are numerous claims of health benefits. I haven’t looked into those claims in any detail but according to wiki Lauric Acid is antibacterial, antioxidant, antiviral and a COX-1-2 inhibitor.
I hope this is helpful - would be interested to hear how you get on with the hemp milk. I’m using Kara coconut milk with added calcium - I really like the taste.
finty xx
Some good news for the primary bc ladies…
All these discussions about juicing have spurred me into some more reading on fruit and vegetables. I don’t think anyone can seriously deny the benefits of eating more fruit and veg, but I was looking for specific evidence of higher fruit and veg consumption reducing the risk of bc recurrence - and I found it.
The link below is to a study of 1551 American women who had primary breast cancer, and were enrolled in the non-intervention arm of the WHEL trial. The bottom line is that after 7 years they found that the women in the highest quartile for levels of fruit and veg consumption had a 43% lower risk of recurrence than those in the lowest quartile. This 43% lower risk of recurrence was independent of factors such as tumour stage and grade, hormone status, type of chemo and hormone therapy, age, bmi, smoking and family history.
jco.ascopubs.org/content/23/27/6631.full
It’s a long report, but if you have the time it is well worth reading the entire document. It explains the problem with many observational diet studies - such as the WHEL study itself and EPIC - which rely on people accurately reporting what they eat. Compared to case controlled and intervention studies, observational studies tend to show only marginal benefits to healthy eating, but there is a well observed tendency for people to claim to be eating a healthier diet than they actually are, which obviously skews the results. Researchers have proved this effect is real by taking blood samples and looking for biomarkers of certain foods which are an accurate indication of what people are really eating - and not what they say they are eating.
The reason I find this study convincing is that it does not rely on food questionnaires - all the evidence for fruit and veg consumption in this study comes from measuring specific biomarkers for these foods in blood samples - so we can be sure that it accurately reflects what these women were really eating.
A couple of comments on these results:
The association of a 43% risk reduction with eating lots of fruit and veg is obviously very encouraging, but they only tested for fruit and veg biomarkers. I think it is reasonable to assume that the women eating the most fruit and veg were likely to be making other healthy eating choices that may well have contributed to these results - particularly as the study was in the US, where diet advice is more commonly given to cancer patients than here. Similarly the women in the lowest quartile of fruit and veg consumption are likely to have been making other poor diet choices which would contribute to the disparity in results between the two groups.
Secondly, the report doesn’t specify how much fruit and veg these women were eating, only the level of biomarkers in the blood.
finty xx
Hi everyone
We’ve been contacted by a number of forum members about this thread, so thought it would be a good time to make a clarifying post.
This thread is a space for people to discuss the choices they have made (or are considering making) relating to diet and lifestyle - and specifically research relating to these choices. When the thread was set up, the original poster requested that the thread be for “those that have an active interest in the subject and wish to exchange information” - essentially for people who believe that diet and cancer are linked - and for that view not to be challenged.
Because people have been concerned about parts of the thread, we thought we’d just make it clear that not everyone does believe in such strong links. As an organisation, our stance is laid out in our website information here: breastcancercare.org.uk/breast-cancer-breast-health/living-with-breast-cancer/looking-after-you/ and our leaflet here breastcancercare.org.uk/upload/pdf/bcc_diet_09.pdf.
In addition, as with other posts on the forum, we do not necessarily endorse the information posted on this thread. To quote our terms & conditions: “Any message posted on a Breast Cancer Care forum expresses only the views of the author of the message and does not necessarily reflect the views of Breast Cancer Care or any other person or entity associated with them or the forums.”
Please also be careful not to give each other medical advice. To quote our community guidelines: “Sharing experiences is at the heart of the forum, but please be careful not to give medical advice.” For example, please say: “In my opinion, it is better to avoid X, Y , Z” or “I found that doing A, B, C helped with this” rather than “it is better to…” “you should do…” or “this will help…”.
And finally… If you are considering making changes to your diet or lifestyle it is really important that you discuss this with your medical team before doing so, to make sure you’re aware of all the implications. Our helpline team is also more than happy to talk through any of the issues with you (0808 800 6000).
Apologies to all of you who have been following the thread since the beginning and already know all this, but as new people join who may not have read the original post, I think it’s important to put up the occasional reminder.
Thanks all
Leah
Thanks Leah - a useful reminder x
Finty and Elinda, in particular are wonderful forum members who contribute so much in a such a positive way by supporting members who feel innately that following a very healthy diet after a bc dx is utterly common-sense, with factual and scientific back-up.
A post like the one above is just a further example of the ‘nanny state’ mentality in this forum regarding food and diet.
No one on this thread is suggesting taking strong herbal remedies, giving up conventional medicine or taking medical care into their own hands, it is all about sensible, healthy eating.
There was so little about diet on this forum when I started my treatment that it took 6 months before I made diet changes that have improved my quality of life no-end, those changes were instigated by a thread on this forum.
*** I FOLLOW A BREAST CANCER DIET. I got bc, it is crap, but I have had to make life-style changes and that includes massive diet changes that have actually improved my over all health to better than it was prior to dx. IN MY OPINION changed to your diet lifestyle and diet can massively improve your reaction to chemo, keep the weight off, make tamox far, far easier to cope with and the evidence is getting stronger that it can greatly reduce your risk or re-occurance/secondaries.
Thanks Gretchen. I think it’s also worth noting that nothing we have discussed here in any way contradicts the forum diet advice Leah linked to, namely:
" All foods can be included in a healthy diet as long as you get the right balance.
The main part of the diet should come from fresh fruit and vegetables and starchy, preferably wholegrain foods such as the following:
* bread
* rice
* pasta
* potato.
A smaller part of your diet should come from proteins such as:
* meat
* fish
* nuts and seeds
* dairy or alternatives.
Foods containing fat and sugar should be restricted as these are high in calories and usually cholesterol too."
This is precisely the diet advice I follow.
finty xx
Think its important that the rest of that article be put up too 
"Enjoying a balanced, nutritious diet is especially important if you have breast cancer.
There are many conflicting theories about diet and nutrition with breast cancer, which can be confusing.
If you would like specialist help, speak to your GP, dietitian or cancer specialist.
Most experts would agree that a healthy diet is balanced and varied and provides all the right nutrients needed.
To stay healthy it is important to:
enjoy your food
eat a variety of different foods
eat the right amount to be a healthy weight
eat plenty of foods rich in starch and fibre
eat plenty of fruit and vegetables
avoid eating fatty foods too often
avoid sugary food and drinks too often
avoid alcohol or drink only in moderation.
All foods can be included in a healthy diet as long as you get the right balance"
Melxx
I am a bit surprised at the comment from BCC about the thread as I think we’ve been very careful to look at research, to discuss some of its flaws as well as its positives and to point out it is personal choice.
However, it’s not a problem at all to reinforce this from time to time.
Elinda x
Lynne - personally I’m not keen on the hemp milk as it has quite a strong taste but that may be because I’ve got used to rice milk and Kara milk. Give it a go, everyone is different. I note that rice milk has some sunflower oil in it, so I try not to go overboard with that either.
Gretchen - thank you for your kind words about me.
Thanks Finty for your advice.
On the subject of this thread generally, I find it odd that discussing a healthy diet is apparently so controversial. There is simply no question that diet and health are intimately related (I’m backed by medical research here).
Deleted
Thanks Linda for those links.
The EPIC study is very interesting and informative however it does compare like with like ie. western diet. An interesting comparison would be with countries that have markedly lower rates of breast cancer although clearly that would be difficult.
The other issue is that the EPIC study does not have a separate category for vegan diets. A study supporting by Cancer Research UK and Epic has shown that IGF-1 levels are lower in vegans than in both meat eaters and lacto-ovo vegetarians.
It concludes:
‘There are, as yet, very limited data on cancer rates among vegan women (47) and work is needed to investigate whether individuals who follow such a diet may be at lower risk of breast cancer. However, the ecological observation that breast cancer incidence is lower in Asian countries where people follow a predominately plant-based diet lends support to the hypothesis that a plant-based diet may be associated with a lower risk of cancer via its effect on IGF-I availability.’
The full article for anyone interested is here:
I think we should be banned from putting any kind of research on this website that we find on the Internet lol.Some of it is not reliable and of course some is.But for every piece of research there is another piece that contradicts it. So it just goes back and forth until someone gets annoyed and then we all know what happens.I think we should as BCC say " For example, please say: “In my opinion, it is better to avoid X, Y , Z” or “I found that doing A, B, C helped with this” rather than “it is better to…” “you should do…” or “this will help”.Also I think that it’s not really fair if someone disagrees and has found say other research which differs from another piece are made to feel that they can not put a balanced view across.So in my simple mind no research on here from forum members would be good
I think it’s great swaping healthy eating tips and of course a healthy diet is good.I myself have picked up some good tips on here.But the blooming research bit Grrrrr
just my opinion of course
Melxx
Can I just point out that there is no such thing as a breast cancer diet.
Nicky
Thanks so much for that link Elinda - it was very useful to have the explanation that it’s the essential amino acid content of proteins that seems to be the main determinant of circulating IGF levels. That is going to help a lot with my diet choices. I found a very good table of amino acid content of various proteins (plant and animal) in this article - you have to scroll down a bit to find it:
veganhealth.org/articles/protein#table3
finty xx
No, there is no such thing as a breast cancer diet and I posted that earlier on the thread when it was initially brought up by someone. I think this has been clarified by BCC themselves on their posting.
Re research - that is why the thread is for those that are interested in research. That is the nature of research, it is rarely as conclusive as we may like to believe it is and it is constantly progressing. Some of us like to look at what it offers but this thread is not for everyone.
There is a separate thread for healthy recipes. I posted on that the other day too.
The research I’ve posted is all related to the EPIC study. It doesn’t contradict the EPIC study because it is looking an a group of people that haven’t been analysed in sufficient numbers ie. vegans.
Incidentally, I’m not a vegan but I am interested to know about where research is going.
Clearly what is annoying to some is interesting to others!
Hello ladies. I just wanted to add my support to the spirit of this thread. I researched extensively a year ago when diagnosed and have now limited my interests to just a few good sources of information and a few specific topics. I haven’t posted, as clearly a few of others are keeping people in the loop. That’s great, but I might butt in now and again if I think I can add something to a post, if that’s OK? It’s good to know that others have reached the same, or at least similar, conclusions as me.