Yes flaxseeds and linseeds are the same thing - no idea why it has two names! The only guide I have had on how much to take is the trial that I linked to a few pages back, where they analysed the tumours of women with primary bc after an intervention of 25gms per day of flaxseeds. As my cancer is active, I have decided to follow that amount - but I would think for a “preventive” dose you could take less.
I would think the same as you about goats/sheep cheese - but it is only a guess. I would also expect it to be grass fed, which is always better. Will let you know if I find anything.
It’s good when people raise these issues as it makes you look back to your original decision to give up dairy - it did me at least.
I loved all dairy products and the first six months or so of giving up was difficult. Now it’s just my way of life. The big bonus for me has been the substantial drop in my cholesterol which I put down to no longer eating cheese or milk chocolate.
The main reason I have opted to give up dairy is because of hormones. From what I understand although I’m not an expert it can/does contain oestrogen, progesterone and prolactin amongst others.
The idea of giving up dairy is hugely contentious and there have been some very heated debates on here about it. Personally I don’t want to introduce more of those types of hormones into my body by drinking an animal’s milk.
Goat’s milk or sheep’s milk may be less intensively farmed, have better feed or grass fed and so could be a better option. I’m not sure that you’d eliminate the hormone element though.
I’d also be very interested to see more research on exactly what milk does contain. I’ll also keep looking. Elinda x
Elinda - that is weird, I was just reading the exact same Harvard article you linked to! It’s the first time I’ve come across any mention of progesterone in food - I’m 8/8 progesterone positive, so very pleased to find that out.
I’m ER+ and PR+ too. I have ground up flaxseed in my organic muesli every day. Use Oaty milk, organic as it has no added sugar. Some milk substitues do have added sugar and I’m trying to avoid that as much as possible. I add chopped organice dried apricots and extra nuts an seeds, then top it off with chopped fresh fruit, pears and kiwi are current favourites. That gets me off to a good start and it’s really good to eat. It takes about 5 minutes to prepare.
I’ve given up dairy too, apart from an occasional organic feta, which I crumble into spinach pie made with filo. I looked at the table on an earlier thread and discovered that the Greeks have a much lower incidence of breast cancer than we do. They are the biggest cheese eaters in Europe, but don’t eat milk or butter much. The feta they buy is usually out of a wooden barrel and made locally from sheep or goats that roam the mountains all day. I know this isn’t scientific but indicates to me that a little organic feta occasionally will be ok for me. Don’t buy the feta made in Denmark, it’s not good. Also greek yohurt, even organic Greek ‘style’ yoghurt is made from cow’s milk so I avoid that now. I love it but I can live without it.
My 'best buy, recently was a vegan cookery book. There are plenty to choose from and of course no dairy. You can add back the good eggs if you wish, and I use honey not syrups as I think it’s healthier, but of course it’s not vegan. The recipes are easy to adapt if you have a little knowledge.
Good luck with eating healthier. It’s worth the effort.
"A new study has reported that estrogen and insulin-like growth factor (IGF) promote breast cancer together and independently by inhibiting cellular processes designed to repress breast cancer growth. The study was designed to investigate the interactions between estrogen and IGF signaling in breast cancer. While both estrogen receptor (ER) and IGF-like growth factor signaling are known to be important for breast cancer, as well as for normal breast development, interaction between these pathways is not well understood (…)
“IGF-I was found to regulate the RNA of five to ten times as many genes as E2. Many genes were co-regulated by both. Of significance was that expression of co-regulated genes correlated with poor breast cancer prognosis. Importantly, the expression of number of potential tumor suppressors was inhibited by IGF-I and E2.”
For anyone new to the discussion of IGF 1 and it’s relevance to diet, IGF 1 levels are raised by consumption of animal protein, particularly dairy products, and soya milk. It has been known for some time that high levels of IGF 1 are associated with significantly raised breast cancer risk, but the exact mechanism is still being researched. This research seems to supply one piece of the jigsaw in that it has identified one mechanism - IGF 1 switches off natural tumour suppressors - and has also identified that IGF 1 acts on many more genes than oestrogen.
I found this research article (2011) relating to phyto oestrogens and breast cancer. It relates to in vitro and in vivo (mice) research. The thing that most caught my eye was the second sentence:
There are plenty of up to date research articles on phyto oestrogens that are worth reading. I’m attaching a link to the main page so anyone interested can see what’s there and read whatever is of interest: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=phyto%20estrogen%20breast%20cancer
Also very interesting article on dietary fibre and breast cancer risk looking at all types and does look at the PR status as well as ER status: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21540873
It states that:
‘An inverse association between dietary fiber intake and breast cancer risk was observed in ER+, ER-, PR+, ER+PR+ and ER-PR+ tumors.Conclusions:Our results suggest that consumption of total dietary fiber and fiber from vegetable and fruit was inversely associated with breast cancer risk. These inverse associations were more prominent in some subtypes of ER and PR breast cancers.’
What was interesting was that they found no associating between cereal fibre and risk. They did for soy fibre, veg fibre and fruit fibre.
I’m no good at stats - can anyone confirm is this reads that soy fibre had the biggest association? Elinda x
Elinda - thanks for the articles. I’m looking at making changes to my diet and thinking about at least cutting down on dairy - I think I’d find it hard to give it up completely. I’m finding the research on isoflavones confusing - soy products in general are good but soy milk is not? Plus the jury seems to be out on whether phytoestrogens are counterindicated with Tamoxifen. Could anybody give me some advice on this please?
Thanks
Lilac x
Lilac - it is difficult as the research is not 100% conclusive yet.
I don’t think anyone is going to be able to give you the type of straight answer you would like. All I can do is say what I’ve opted to do but it’s a personal decision.
I don’t touch dairy. I only have occasional soya mainly because the soya products we tend to get here are processed.
I do have the occasional soya latte or soya dessert and I do use soy sauce.
I don’t have it as my main milk substitute though. I use Kara coconut milk on cereal and for cooking, Oat milk on porridge and then rice milk in tea. I’ve just tried the Oatly cream which others have raved about and it’s great.
The article below shows the positive effect of soy. Unfortunately I can only access the abstracts which is frustrating: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21357380
If you keep looking through the research you’ll find something that suggests soy isn’t safe. The research just isn’t conclusive yet.
Sorry don’t think that helps much! Elinda x
Hi Lilac - there are two competing issues with soy - phyto-oestrogens and Insulin Like Growth Factor, and both are very complex. But very briefly - there is a growing body of research that shows phyto-oestrogens are protective against breast cancer because they act as a very weak oestrogen and prevent natural oestrogen reaching cancer cells. Unless they are taken in large doses, ie as a supplement, where it appears to have the opposite effect. Soy is very high in phyto-oestrogens, so from that point of view eating soy is considered a good thing, and is presumed to be one of the reasons why the Chinese and Japanese have had historically low levels of bc.
But consuming large amounts of soy MILK daily raises the levels of Insulin Like Growth Factor 1 (IGF 1) in the body, which is associated with a raised risk of bc. IGF 1 appears to play a role in regulating cancer cell division, and is raised by consuming protein, particularly animal protein. The research that made this connection with soy milk observed the rise in IGF 1 when three quarters of a pint per day was consumed.
So it seems that only drinking large quantities of soy milk (a western habit), or taking soy supplements is deemed to be harmful. Eating soy in its more traditional formats in small quantities seems to be beneficial.
Not sure about the connection with Tamoxifen - will see what I can find.
Re the stats on dietary fibre and risk - I read it the same way as you. I suspect the reason that it didn’t show any evidence for cereal fibre is that it was conducted in Asia, where the main cereal is presumably white rice, which contains very little fibre. Without knowing how much cereal fibre they were consuming it’s hard to come to any conclusions.
Re the comment on flaxseeds etc and tamoxifen from the research you linked to:
“A diet with high amounts of phytoestrogens, such as flaxseed (Flax), genistein (GEN), and the mammalian lignan enterolactone (ENL), may affect breast cancer progression in a similar fashion as the antiestrogen tamoxifen.”
I’m not really surprised by this. I think Tamoxifen itself has something like a 40% success rate, and the flaxseed research I linked to a couple weeks ago compared very favourably - I think reducing tumour activity by 34% in patients with active bc, but without the se’s of Tamoxifen. In the US flaxseeds are being considered by researchers as an alternative to Tamoxifen as a preventative for women at high risk of bc because of the se issue with Tamoxifen.
Thanks for all this interesting information ladies much appreciated. I have always been very interested in what we feed ourselves and even more so since being diagnosed. Although I do admit that chemo does make my body crave everything else too at the moment. Thanks again. Adi
Elinda - I liked the end of that link as well, where is said flaxseed also reduced IGF 1. So it reduces tumours, increases the effect of Tamoxifen, down regulated Progesterone and reduces IGF 1 - amazing!
Adi - I sympathise, it’s really hard during chemo. I just craved carbs. But that won’t last for long and then you can get back to better habits. Hope it’s going well.