Thanks Mel, this is fascinating. it really does seem that immunotherapy could revolutionise treatment in the future, possibly even vaccinations.
So if it isn’t the immune system then in those very rare cases of spontaneous regression something is causing the cancer cells to die. I wonder what?
Unless of course something bizarre and rare happens with the immune system in those cases that make it respond for some reason. I suppose we don’t know if and how often it is happening at the start of the development of cancer. The cases documented to date seem largely as Lemongrove pointed out those for whom there were no other treatment options. A hard thing to study as it is so rare.
It is comforting to know that all these new treatments are being explored. Elinda x
Elinda, as Stressy say’s, spontaneous regression has nothing to do with the immune system suddenly recognising cancer cells. When I asked my Oncologist why spontaneous regression occurs, he said that some cancers seem destined to fizzle out, while others are destined to progress. At one time doctors thought that the way cancer behaved or progressed was down to pure chance, but medical research is changing this view.
This is why Scientists are now saying that in the future they will be able to predict how a cancer will behave, and tailor treatments to the individual, rather than a stage/grade of cancer.
I read a while ago about a lady who had many miscarages and it turned out that she had killer cells which would fight off any foreing body including a prgnancy,the DR said that not many people carry these cells and that although they were a bad thing for the prgnancy the lady would never get cancer.Maybe the people whos cancer’s regress have these killer cells.Or maybe i’m talking rubbish lol, but it was just on my mind lol.
I was just wondering why a cancer that got so advanced as to be untreatable would suddenly regress like that. They must have some theories about it I’m sure. Perhaps then some cancers have a limited span even if they reach an advanced state.
Mel - I have heard about something similar so could be do with that.
Has Finty stopped posting? - I used to enjoy her posts v much. I took a break from the forums for a bit during marriage meltdown in the autumn so maybe I missed something.
Maggy
Things did get very heated on here as they are prone to on this thread. I think a few people stopped posting at that point including Finty. I do keep in touch with her occasionally and miss her input too. Elinda x
Maybe lemongroves Oncologist is right and some cancers just fizzle out instead of progressing,or as you say Elinda, some just have a limited life span.It seems by the evidence given already that it has nothing to do with the immune system,so perhaps it just happens for no reason.
Guess we will never know until science one day discovers why.
Another explanation for spontaneous regression could be misdiagnosis. Maybe those people who seem on their last legs and then suddenly recover, are people who never had cancer in the first place, but were ill from the effects of chemo, surgery, rads etc.
I know this is unlikely as far as a primary diagnosis is concerned, because doctors invariably biopsy primary tumours before giving a diagnosis, but they seldom biopsy hot-spots before giving a diagnosis of secondary cancer - and there are occasionally stories in the press about people who go on massive spending sprees after a terminal diagnosis, only to discover that the diagnosis was wrong.
Coming at the immune system’s ability to target cancer from a slightly different angle…
I had a “benign” lump in my breast for several years. Two years ago I discovered that I had developed type 1 diabetes, which was due to my immune system attacking and destroying the cells in my pancreas responsible for the production of insulin. No one knows why this happens, part of it may be due to genetics and family history, and part of it may be due to trauma, injury or infection, and a faulty response of the immune systems to that trauma.
A year later, at my annual mammogram, it was discovered that my lump was no longer benign, I had cancer.
Would it be possible that my diabetes was triggered by my BC? I don’t know, but if it were it might suggest that the immune system is “aware” of cancer cells, but doesn’t know how to react to them.
On finishing chemo I developed another auto immune problem, this time it is my thyroid that is being attacked by my immune system. Not very uncommon in women of my age (50) and not at all uncommon with type 1 diabetes (I think of them as the evil twins).
Or perhaps my cancer was a result of the failure of my immune system, rather than the other way around.
Not very scientific I know, just ramblings on the subject that may, or may not, be of interest.
Many many pages of info here…much of it extremely interesting.
Im still going through chemo and have 2 of 8 left so as i near the end of this stage of treatment i have started to look at changes i am responsible for managing i.e. diet and products i use on my body. To that end im slowly swapping over things like deodrants, showel gels, moisturizers etc to paraben, SLS free, rather expensive but hey ho!
Ive gained over 2 stone with the treatments and change of lifestyle in the last 5-6 months which i intend to start chipping away at post MX, but im a bit …not confused…but a little manic about some of the diet and toiletries changes i should perhaps start making.
Giving up sugar - is this in everything i.e no added sugar in tea/coffee, drinks etc. what about cakes or desserts…does one just point blank never eat such items again or are we talking about moderation here…and whats considered moderate?
My BC is ER +, do i have to give up dairy, can i switch to organic or does this not address the hormone issue?
Kinda freaking out a little, but major change can often this to me so im trying to stay within the realms of logic and not panic, just looking for some top tips on where to start really without setting myself up for failure or feeling like i can never enjoy food again or even being a woman again.
Just looking at all my lovely creams, showel gels, parfums and planning a massive throw out or give away or am i approaching this in the wrong way?
I just wanted to bring your attention to a statement given by Breast Cancer Care’s Clinical Director Dr Emma Pennery earlier in this thread:
These different opinions on diet are not surprising and reflect a debate that has raged in the scientific and popular press for many years.
One reason for this is robust studies on diet are notoriously difficult to design. Any influences of diet on the risk of getting cancer or cancer recurrence take effect over time, so studies need to explore what people eat over many years, which can be hard to record accurately.
It’s also difficult to untangle exactly what in our diets is having an effect. For example, diets high in fatty foods or alcohol have been shown to increase the chances of getting breast cancer. But this may be due to the fats themselves or because they contribute to being overweight or because people who eat high fat diets may not do much exercise.
Even large, well designed, randomised trials have produced conflicting results. For example in one review of twelve high quality studies, six showed dairy products reduced the risk of breast cancer and 6 showed no relationship between dairy products and breast cancer risk.
So the jury is still out for many foods and their influence on cancer risk in isolation. It is also unclear if lifestyle factors that increase the risk of getting breast cancer are the same as those that increase the risk of it coming back. However, reliable evidence does suggest you can help to reduce the risk of getting breast cancer or it coming back – and look after your general health – by eating a well-balanced diet without too much saturated fat, maintaining a healthy weight, doing regular exercise and not drinking too much alcohol.
If you have any questions or concerns about your current diet or would like to discuss changes you are considering making, please do call our free helpline on 0808 800 6000 where traine helpliners and breast care nurses will be able to discuss any anxieties you may have.
Hi all, just found this thread and have not had time to read through it all, but am going to.
Lisa,
I am with you on this, it’s hard to know what to do. All I can say is I have been on an anti-candida diet for years, and only eat sugar in the form of fresh fruit (and not very sugary fruit like melons, grapes etc - also nothing fermented like alchohol, vinegar and nothing yeasty), and also have been on a dairy-free diet due to lactose intolerance. However I still got BC! The thing is is that IF these things do affect the development of cancer, then it is only an increased risk. So if the chance of you developing BC is, say, 30% (because you are a woman), and then there is an increased risk of say 5% due to eating a diet high in dairy, that will only affect the overall risk a little bit (I have forgotten how to do statistics).
Having said that, I am thinking why not cut down the risk as far as possible, OK so maybe no link is proven, but “what if”! The medical community differ even on what treatment is best, let alone what causes what, and I am sure that our 20th century lifestyle has had a huge effect on the number of cancer cases we have now. So I am sticking to my diet, and trying to eat organic food as far as possible. Also I am switching myself and the kids to paraben, SLS-free toiletries and Al-free deodorants. The David Servan-Schreiber book is the one to read, I think - it’s very clear and well-laid out, and do-able. For me the difficult thing is cutting down red meat as my ds will not eat vegetarian food, and I can’t be doing with cooking different meals for him! As you said, this cancer thing could really work out expensive in terms of lifestyle change!!
I think you need to find a balance that works for you, Lisa - if you are feeling rubbish because not having a glass of wine or whatever makes you feel miserable then that will affect your mental state, and also that is not good, so why not try these things out and see how you go. Oh and in refererence to hair growth as mentioned on November thread, yes put a new photo on!!
Hi,
This is a subject I’m interested in. At dx in May 2013 I was very anxious and scared (my onc says I’m “high risk”) but concentrating on diet, exercise and meditation has made me feel a little more hopeful. It may not make any difference of course, but it’s at least helping me cope at the moment. I’ve been quite inspired by “Anticancer” and have also cut out dairy as suggested by Jane Plant. I’m really enjoying all the extra veggies, green tea etc I’m consuming and I’m feeling well.
As regards vitamin D, I came across a Youtube video of Jeanne Wallace who is an American nutritionalist working in oncology. David Servan-Shreiber mentions her in Anticancer. She explains that the levels of vit D which a GP would consider normal are not as high as those found to be therapeutic against cancer. Toxicity occurs at a higher level still. Unfortunately she doesn’t state the units in the video, and I don’t think they correspond to UK units (my GP tells me 75 nano mo/litre is normal - mine was 91 but I’m still choosing to supplement based on Jeanne Wallace’s advice). Does anyone know what a good vit D level would be?
Will try and post a link to the video when I’m at a computer rather than on my phone!
Re Water filters: Water disinfection isn’t normally required on household drinking taps, but if you live in an old and don’t know what the plumbing is like there are few products that can help:
Water disinfection would be a good start. This new product called Quantum Disinfection does away with chemicals and uses a catalytic electron exchange to disinfect water. There is no power, no chemicals and no maintenance.
Alternatively, if you have access to a well then this well water treatment unit has superior filtration performance. It offers small mesh size to remove finer particles.
Using water softeners to remove hard scale wastes a lot of water and uses lots of salt. The Next Scalestopis a proven alternative to salt water softeners. Ultimately it helps wy reducing operating costs. Also, the Scalestop system doesn’t remove some of the nutrients valued in water.
I can’t comment on the effect these devices have on particular ailments but hope the info is helpfull.
Hi everyone,
Very interesting thread. I was just wanting to pick the collective brains to help me decide what to do about probiotics whilst on chemo. I’ve read it can be protective against chemo induced diarrhoea BUT it is advised on all my chemo handouts from hospital to avoid pribiotics on chemo. Any thoughts?
Cath