Hi Ladies,
When I was first diagnosed in Feb 08 I asked my consultant how long he thought the cancer had been there and his answer was “from the day it started to next monday when I take it out.” I just wonder if anyone has any idea how long it takes for tumours to grow…I know it must depend on Grade, Hormones, Herceptin etc but anyone any ideas? I just feel if I can pinpoint it to a particular time in my life I can “try” and reason it? My tumour was 27mm, grade 3 and triple positive.
Thanks in advance
Kate
xxx
The consultant who gave me my DX told me that the very first wrong message sent out by my brain that caused the first tiny changes to cells would have happened about 9 years before I found a lump [and my lump was only 13mm so very small]. He said it wasn’t anything I did and was probably sparked by stress although 9 years ago was a very happy time in my life so I really have never known whether to believe this or not.
The only thing I have ever been able to pin point to this time was that I went onto depo injections for contraception about a year before then although this is a progesterone contraception not eostrogen [I am ER+] so again I don’t really know.
I’ve read it starts up about ten years or so before it becomes large enough to be felt or seen. That’s because it starts with a single cell that keeps dividing and dividing. So one cell becomes two, two becomes four, four becomes sixteen etc, until it is billions of cells by which time it is about nine years down the line. There’s some theories that it grows at different rates at different times, and certainly some people describe them suddenly growing enormous in the space of a month so it must depend on the speed of division as well. My lump was grade 1 and I got misdiagnosed for 6 months or so and it didn’t seem to get any bigger in that time so there we are
Mole
AJXXX - I had a depo injection that lasted 3 months after the birth of my 2nd child - I was dx when she was 9!!! I always wondered whether it had anything to do with it…I wonder how many others have had it?
BTW I was er and pr positive.
AJXXX, Molennum and Jewel,
Thanks for your input - I was really stressed just before my diagnosis and had convinced myself the cancer was due to me worring too much about work, money etc etc. If it started 9 years ago I would have still been in school.
When I was first DX I always felt as though this was all my fault, but as time goes on I’m trying to accept that it is just one of those things - out of my control.
Thanks again
Love
Kate
xxx
Good question eh? I’ve wondered this too. I have had 2 previous investigations for breast lumps in my affected side in the preceeding 6 years to my diagnosis. For me my diagnosis was 3rd time unlucky!!! but I did have full mamogram and biopsy 18 months before my diagnosis and nothing was picked up, they even did some additional staining of the biopsy to be on the safe side so I don’t think I was misdiagnosed. Interestingly the breast surgeon at the time did really focus on my mammogram where my primary tumour finally appeared but at the time the lump that was being investigated was on the other side of my breast. She thoroughly examined me and came to no conclusion. Then, when I had my mastectomy the results came back with a second tiny tumour (2mm) in the area where the additional staining was done 18 months previously. So it’s all a bit strange!. I find the whole diagnosis thing very frustrating, I feel so young (38) and I don’t tick one single box of any risk factor you read of but then I gather this is the same for so many ladies on this site. I’m just grateful for all the lovely support to help me not dwell on the why but to get through this shi**y experience.
Good luck to everyone and thanks.
XX
I had a bad fall in the bedroom 4 years before DX and the cast iron knob on the bedstead jammed into my boob, It was agony and the bruising was horrific. It was exactly the same place as the tumour, can’t believe there is no connection.
I find this very interesting. I was diagnosed Her2+ and spoke to an oncologist relative about this as the experts don’t really know for certain yet what causes it. He told me what they do know is that the growth hormone should switch off in your body at the age of 28, but in Her2+ cases it keeps going. The gene would then have mutated at around age 35 and would take about 10 years to become a cancer - I was diagnosed at 45. Once it becomes a cancer it is aggressive so grows very quickly. When I asked the surgeon how long he thought the tumour had been in there, he said in his opinion about 6 months.
Whilst there is no real evidence of stress playing a part, I can link 28, 35 and 45 to some extremely stressful episodes in my life, so it does always make me wonder.
Hi everyone,
No, I don’t know the answer to this question either - for my own case I think there are two possibilities:-
-
Stress - I was dx with bc just 3 months after my daughter died (aged 4) from cancer and whilst I was 30 weeks pregnant with my third child.
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Genetic Link - whilst researching into bc, I discovered a paper titled ‘First Study to show link between children’s solid tumours and their mother’s breast cancer’. At this point I should make it clear that no-one on the maternal side of my family has been dx with cancer.
I am now taking part in a study led by Cancer Research UK at the Royal Manchester Children’s Hospital into the genetic changes which can affect the likelihood of developing cancer.
I wonder whether I am like msmolly’s friend, the genetic mutation was always there (cancer predisposition) but stress triggered the tumour to grow.
This is certainly something that I will always wonder about but at the end of the day even if I did know how long it had been there it wouldn’t change anything.
Moderator, hijacking the thread here but I would be interested to know whether Breast Cancer Care have come across mum’s who were dx with bc within 10 years of their child being dx with cancer. I only found out this information on a BBC News wbesite link. The research was presented at the ECCO 12 European Breast Cancer Conference in Copenhagen 2003!!!
Love xxxx
I think I have read that there has been some research showing that cancer can develop in scar sites which makes me wonder why they excise lumps etc which they know already are benign - I gained the impression that they may do it to avoid anxiety on the part of the patient. I had a lump which they decided was benign and yet they wanted to operate - I asked why when it was benign and they said OK if you are alright with that. Since I had already had two lots of breast surgery I refused it.
I am very glad now because last year I was diagnosed with lobular cancer which had developed precisely where about 12 years ago I had a papilloma removed from the other breast - this was benign and they knew that before they operated so I wish I had had the guts to refuse it then.
It does seem more than coincidence when so many of us are saying they have experienced this. I was also going through a very stressful period at that point. Add to that the numerous chest Xrays I have had for other reasons and taking too much soy and I think I know what contributed to mine. There is no breast cancer on either side of my family although my father and two of his siblings had cancer. So it seems to me one can inherit something which predisposes you to developing cancer and is triggered by other factors such as stress.
Sarcath
Someone needs to research why so many womeen think that ‘stress’ is a cause of breast cancer when study after study and meta analysis after meta analysis shows there is no causal relationship…
Pregnancy does not cause breast cancer. Indeed women who never have children are more likely to have breast cancer than those who do…though some breast cancers do seem to grow more quickly as result of the hormone changes of pregnanacy but this is quite different from saying that pregnancy causes it.
Knocks and bumps don’t cause breast cancer either.
I think the genetic link you mention swissmiss is really interesting.
I reckon yes that bc cuases are a complex interplay between genetic, environmental and lifestyle factors. I think the changes in women’s lifestyles in the west over a couple of generatiosn…fewer pregnancies, more menstruation, more drinking richer higher fat diets may be significant.
I’m fascinated why women on forums so often dismiss the known risk factors with bc of HRT use and alcohol use but get seriously uptight about stress and knocks and deodorants.
The myths which people believe, why they believe them, and the impact those myths have on research and education are what fascinate me.
Jane
I’m with Jane on this one. There’s no link been shown between stress and breast cancer, If stress were a factor in breast cancer I should have developed it after diagnosis as diagnosis with breast cancer is probably the most stressful event I have ever experienced.
The main risk factor is being a woman and risk increases with age. I hope the generations study comes up with some clues although breast cancer seems to be not one but many diseases. The process of cancer is something to do with cells going wonky so maybe they will become more knowledgeable about how this happens and how to stop the consequences of it. There may be a breakthrough one day even if it hasn’t happened yet. In the meantime I don’t believe in magical explanations, I’m for scientific method
Mole
I was interested in Sarcath’s point on the excision of benign lumps. In my case if I had not had the fibroid removed I could have been in very deep trouble - it was hiding a smaller tumour which was sitting directly under the centre of the fibroid. It was not picked up by any of the tests and the surgeon assured me that fibroids don’t become cancers. I elected to have it removed as it was 46mm and I didn’t like the fact it was there. The surgeon said he felt it was the right decision. I then had 3 weeks prior to surgery in a state of euphoria as I’d been told I didn’t have cancer, plus a week on the back of the day surgery. All I was thinking about was getting off to Spain to see my friends for a week.
When I went back to get the dressings off I just had a funny feeling something was not right; I was thinking about it in the car to the hospital. When I went for my appointment there was a breast care nurse in attendance and the surgeon seemed a bit quiet and distracted when he was taking off the dressings, he said he would have a word with me when I was dressed. Then he just came straight out with it and told me he had found a cancer.
I would advise anyone with a fibroid to have it removed on account of my experience as I know this has happened to other women.
I had a clear mammogram in June 07 and a 2.6cm lump, by Dec 07. I had the June mammogram rechecked and though a very experienced radioligist said she coudl see very subtle changes, she showed to blind to 2 colleagues who did nto pick up any abnormality. It was Grade 3 and Triple Negative so perhas that is why it grew so quickly. Luckily for me there was no vascular invasion and no nodes.
Hi Kate,
Just like you I wanted to know when the cancer had started. My tumour was Grade 2 15mm and I had other areas of DCIS. The oncologist was unsurprisingly very vague, but said it was more likely months rather than years/weeks. I thought that sounded ok as estimates had changed from 12mm to 15mm during the 2 months of diagnosis so growing at that rate it could have been there around a year. I was quite satisfied with that as I’d had quite a few changes in my life (stress at work / redundancy / partner’s illness) in the year before dx and felt I could relate it back to these.
Looking back at this and reading some of the comments above, I think it was just a case of hearing what I wanted to hear at the time. Really there is no answer to when? as there is no answer to why? for most of us.
Misha
My pregnancy resulted in me having cancer now.
Whether it was cause, trigger or prompt, whether it was conducive, contributory, influential or directly implicated the fact remains that my surgeons and my oncologist and the 13 person strong multi-disciplinary breast care team and myself are all agreed that I would not be here now with just one tit if I hadn’t got pregnant.
I had IVF - I had a completely clear mammogram prior to conception. I did not have cancer prior to the pregnancy.
People readily accept the relationship between stress and health problems - stress and heart disease and coronary conditions, stress and asthma and respiratory problems, stress and supression of the immune system, stress and eczema/psoriasis, stress and viral conditions like shingles - yet when it comes to cancer …
Good luck to all.
Molly
To Swissmiss
My son had cancer as a baby. when visiting his oncologist last month, I happened to mention that I had breast cancer. She was very interested and said there was a link between the two. My mother had bilateral breast cancer and now that I have started researching my family tree, there have been three other children with cancer and several women with breast cancer, all on one side of the family. We are being sent to a geneticist in Oxford to see if there is a genetic problem.
Hi,
I asked my surgeon how long I had had my lump, which was 23mm and grade 2. He said mine would have taken 6 months to develop from the first cell division. That took me back to when my job went absolutely manic and became very stressful. The other factor was that I had a mirena coil fitted a number of months before and that is the one I would bet my money on. I see myself as on a fruit machine, the first cherry was the hormones in the coil, the second was some propensity/family history to get it and the third cherry was maybe the stress/ diet/lack of exercise who knows . When all the 3 came up at the same time, bingo. When I add up all the bonus points you get for having children young, plenty of them and breastfeeding to age one each time, I am in credit, but possibly that just stopped me from getting it earlier? No BC on my mum’s side but one on my Dad’s, surgeon said one of the strongest link comes through that line. Even my GP did not know that. I had asked for screening 2 years before and been refused by the programme as under 50.
Susan Love the big US BC doctor gives a lot of detail about what increases your risk if anyone wants to read it but it doesn’t really help once you have it. My friend gingerly told me yesterday that she just cannot live with hot flushes and that people don’t understand how debilitating they are, so has started taking HRT. What can you say, hell I pray she is ok but hot flushes alone sound pretty good from where I am. I do think hormones cause a lot but the younger ladies who are not ER+ are possibly going to be affected by different factors. Hope they work it out.
Love to you all
Lily x
Hi Lily,
It’s all interesting stuff isn’t it? My BC has been dx as Grade II.
Well as for stress, you know what I have been dealing with over the last few years - so | deffo fit that one! I also had a mirena coil fitted 2 years ago, and I have been So busy looking after everyone else, If I’m honest - my own diet, exercise, lifestyle has not been at it’s best. Makes you wonder doesn’t it.
love Tracey xx