Sorry…probbaly what siad a bit sweeping…(I can be a bit sweeping at times…)I agree there is a lot to be discovered about the relationship between the immune sytem and destruction of early cancer cells…but I do think there is also a lot simplistic stuff ‘out there’ that makes fanciful statements about the ‘immune system’ as though it is something people can wilfully control.
I still maintain though that the overwhelming evidence from studies on stress and breast cancer find no proven link…and as I said there are studies which have shown stress after early breast cancer diagnosis may delay or prevent recurrence (I take these studies with big pinch of salt too!).
I know what you mean about taking things with a pinch of salt Jane. The most ridiculous study I’ve read all week was the one about ladies who have migraines having a far less chance of getting BC. All I can say is, I suffered migraines for 35 years since starting my periods and I’m still having them despite now being post menopausal. Oh, and just for good measure I got BC 2 years ago!
Hi Ladies I believe there is some link just there has not been enough research to pinpiont that yet. Some studies done by traditional chinese medicail methods suggest that the reason to get a lump inside body was because the lack of circlations and the cells was stimulated in a wrong way and one of the stimulations could be stress. I 'd be interested to sign up a stress managment course ( though i have been one before in the uni) tailored for BC paitant like myself…
Dont think stress has anything to do with recurrance.I was dx Dec '03 and have been told by my onchologist that I’d be dead and buried years ago if it did! Wouldnt have enough room to list the lot but was even attacked unprovoked, and had my ribs broken during chemo!Then just after radio all hell kicked in- my bro-in-law came out as gay and took a massive overdose.There were two serious car crashes involving close family -one leaving my son a permanent invalid(he spent months in hospital were he caught mrsa)My little grandson was unexpectedly born dead at full term…I was there as he was born and held him in my arms.I had to rush my youngest son to hospital with heart problems.My 7yr old rotweiler(who happened to be a dear friend) died unexpectedly outside my bedroom door…All this was just the tip of the iceberg…I could go on and on and on and on…and this was all within 18mths of my dx,and it didnt stop there!! It got so bad I was afraid to answer the phone! I was sent to the breast cancer councilor.She was actually amazed at how well I was copeing and said she probably wouldnt fare so well herself! My cancer hasnt come back despite a poor prognosis and I’m 5yrs down the line.Thankfully my life has quietened down these days.
Josey -
you have had alot on your plate an dto have to deal with something as devastating as your gransdon being stillborn, that is awful. After my primary diagnosis I made alot of really positive changes in my life, lost alot of weight, got a job i really enjoyed and yet my cancer STILL came back. I think what we can both say that is that the illness is the illness and we should not overestimate our ability to control it or the effect of life events on it,
I’m with you on this one josyemarie. As far as I can see cancer is entirely a genetic mutation that goes wrong with one cell that happens years before the lump becomes visible. If it was stress causing it, it would have to be stress years previously.
I think it’s bad luck
the most stressful experience of my life was being diagnosed anyway and I haven’t had any recurrences since five years ago. If it were stress, why don’t more men get it? Are they so laid back that it doesn’t affect them?
i was thinking a long the same lines as i had a stroke/ brain hemorage last year i was just getting up and walking when bang my doc told me i might have breast cancer i did could this be somthing caled bodyshock ( when somthing realy bad shocks ( attacks the system ) causing sever trauma to the system my uncle was involed in a terrible road crash when first exsamined they did all scans / xrays / tests he had alot of damage to his body which in time medded but on his last visit to hospital 2 years latter he was told he had cancer and died soon after now this was never picked up over the time he had these tests so there is no cancer in their side of family either could this be a valid point ???
JaneRA in response to your comment to Rowena how do you know that it would have been there for more than 8 mths? My med team simply refuse to speculate on how long I had had BC.
My reason for asking them was that I had been under an incredible ammount of stress from different areas for 2 yrs leading up to my diagnosis.
They did agree that there is a link between lowered immunity and stress. When immunity is low then illness can follow. My GP, BC nurse ONc and others have agreed to this fact too. Personally I have not read any papers or data on this so my thoughts are that it’s a gut reaction that stress is an indicator in BC as it is in other illnesses.
As I have described previously, I suffered several years of stress both in my personal and working life before final diagnosis, and subsequent flare-ups have always followed stressful times. Stress takes different forms in different people and arises from very different sources, but the constant production of adrenalin can lead to an affect on the adrenal system and thereby affect the immune system. It seems to me very likely that stress is a contributory factor for certain types of people. To categorically dismiss it as a factor or to categorically claim it is always a factor are both unwise. The case for or against is still unproven and likely to remain so.
It is important not to read newspaper reports about disease. They are usually simplistic and very often incorrect.
It is very likely that a breast cancer tumour has been growing for more than 8 months by the time it is diagnosed. I am sorry if I sounded too categorical on this.
As for stress…there have been hundreds and hundreds of studies…many of them methodologically unsound. The soundest studies of breast cancer and stress are propsective studies (rather than restropsective ones) which have almost without exception found no link between breast cancer and ‘stress’,. Read CRUK information on this. I am not being ‘categorical’…I am simply saying that if you look at the methodolgically sound studies the evidence simply isn’t there. Retrospective studies (where you simply ask people with breast cancer if they have been stressed without asking the same question of people without breast cancer) are simply not proper science for this kind of issue.
I do think it is interesting that so many women get so heated and determined that stress played some part in their getting breast cancer…I am sure people feel upset about difficult things which have happened in their lives but that is no reason for somehow ‘self blaming’ and attributing their impact to a diagnosis of breast cancer. Even if there was a link (and I don’t think there is…and I think money is being weasted on piddling silly studies on this) what would be done about it? Divorce counselling, stopping people dying??? ‘Stress’ seems to me to be western constructed concept…what about stress in the developing world?
Stress can affect people’s health in many ways and too much stress can be damaging but to attribute a link to breast cancer is simply not within the realms of scientific evidence as it stands and nor do any tenuous links help find either preventative measures, treatment or a cure of breast cancer.
‘They’ do not agree on stress though I’m sure a lot of nice busy nurses and doctors are happy to nod agreement to a distressed patient going on about stress. Gut reactions are not evidence.
Does anyone know if the Breakthrough Generations Study has a question on stress?
I was told by my onc tumours can often take several years before they are palpable and micro mets can take a long while before they even show up on any scans…8 months would seem to be an incredibly short time. I also read, I think it was in a Susan Love book but not sure, it was a serious book though not a lifestyle type book, that tumours can be present for up to 10 years before they are finally palpable.
I always consider the developing world and war-torn nations when this question of stress comes up again. Surely if there was some proven correlation there would be statistics to show it? Is there a higher incidence of breast cancer in Afghanistan, for instance?