I am another one who is strongly oestrogen positive. I opted to give up all dairy on diagnosis for the very reason that it hasn’t been proven to make a difference one way or the other. So many studies, why cant they say one way nor the other? So, for me it’s a no brainer. Why risk it. I hate the thought of feeding my cancer, even when I ovulate!
I am not scientific, but my onc said herself she can’t recommend a dairy free diet, and certainly not switching to soya as it is worse wih added stuff, but to do my own research… There are a lot of testimonials out there and psychologically, the Jane Plant story helps me. My husband works in Switzerland and it is normal for some European docs to suggest cutting out dairy. To me, there is no obvious benefit in drinking a food product nature designed for calves, given that most of the world is lactose intolerant, I feel I am messing just too much in using milk products.
On s positive note, i made a great carrot cake yesterday with olive oil and coconut milk, with plain icing. Feel I can still have treats too.
Xx
well i have just done a bit more research on it, trouble is nobody will quote the report the artical is based on.
It seems that some lacto bacillus (friendly flora) have receptors for oestrogen, phyto oestrogen and other toxins. These little goodies mop up the toxins in your gut before they get anywhere near your cancer. It seems that raw milk has some enzymes that help too.
in canada one group of scientist cultured hormone postative cells in dishes. They fed on lot kefir, one lot proper yoghurt(not the dead stuff) and one lot milk.
the kefir lot nearly all died, the youghurt lot some died and the milk lot multiplied.
Now i am not saying that kefir will cure cancer, far from it, this is in a dish not in a patient. But the authers said that the kefir mopped up the oestrogen a lot, the youghurt less so, but the milk provided oestrogen.
Thing we put in our mouth do not automatically get through to our bodies, we have gut walls and flora putting up a defence. I have been using kefir as a natural bro biotic for a few years now.
He ho, so many opinions. even the experts seem divided. Think i will carry on with my raw milk and kefir. I love the taste, have great digestion. and anyway I dont think I have another natural source of vitamin K. And raw milk has stuff in it that helps you absorb calcium, calcium tablet make me feel ill.
For those of you looking for an alternative to milk you might want to give Oatly a try. I am lactose intolerant and have been using it for some time both for drinking and cooking. I’ve found it’s fine both in hot drinks and on cereal, plus it doesn’t separate in hot drinks like a lot of soy and similar stuff does. I’ve found that the Oatly Enriched version is the best and this also has added vitamins and calcium.
I buy mine in Sainsburys as it’s cheaper there than in the health food shops. You find it in the long life section not the chiller.
I’m in two minds about the bc/dairy connection because I’ve been dairy free for over 30 years, plus I’ve never smoked, hardly drink, eat what is often said is the best type of diet and exercised/not over weight and yet I still got breast cancer. Sadly, to me it seems that some of it is just down to bad luck.
Edited to add that I’ve just been looking at the Oatly site and they now do a version that you can find in the chiller at Tesco’s.
oal - the research Elinda referred to measured serum levels of oestrogen and progesterone after consuming milk. They found a significant spike in the levels in the blood after drinking a glass of milk. So clearly this was not destroyed by enzymes during digestion, as it managed to find it’s way in to the blood stream, and therefore to any cancer lurking cells.
There are substances in milk and dairy products that have been shown to have a protective effect against breast cancer - the good news is you can also get these from other products that don’t come loaded with oestrogen, progesterone and growth factors.
yes but what sort of milk was it?? Pateurisation destroys the sturcture, and homogonisation too. Pasteurisation also desctroys the bacteria I was talking about that mops up the oestrogen.
Most industrail cows are fed soy to increase the milk production. Cows were never meant to eat any sort of cereal and especially not soy. And I dont know what other drugs they are fed. Even organic cows are fed soy–its just organic soy so that they can still keep their organic status.
Further to my comment above - the main substance in dairy that is associate with a lower risk of bc is Conjugated Linoleic Acid - good non-diary sources of CLA are eggs and white button mushrooms. Several research studies in Japan have found an association between lowered bc risk and mushroom consumption.
Thanks Nymeria I might give that a try regarding the japanese report also take into concideration their BC rates are much much lower than ours which I think is due to their diets being much cleaner than ours as well as the milk issue.
I must admit being TN God forbit I get a recuurance of hormone receptive one (which seems to happen in some cases) I will go dairy free without a second thought, as I too agree why feed a BC with the very thing it needs, even with all the research Ive read up on the fact remains even with all the DO’s & Donts there is still too much doubt & who knows whos digestive system is working at full peek as it should be your immune system has to be in TOP form for this to be happening SORRY but no cancer patient has a TOP FORM immune system or we wouldn’t have got the dam thing in the 1st place.
I read a very interesting article regarding the digestive system & cancer the intestines are where ALL cancers start forming !! again this is due to the breakdown of the immune system & lack of NK cells which the ‘healthy’ body produces naturally to kill cancer
I love mushrooms but hadn’t been eating them much if at all over the past few years as only 2 others in the family like them Ive now started eating the white button, oyster & shitake mushrooms & now only one of the family dont like them
aol I don’t know what type of milk was used in the trial - but as all milk sold here in shops is pasteurised, and whether organic or not is subject to the same intensive farming processes, I imagine the results would be similar. Raw milk can only be sold direct from farmers to consumers, it can’t be sold in shops, so that isn’t an option for most people. Also I would want to see some research demonstrating that raw milk is different - given that the dairy industry does not acknowledge that there is oestrogen and progesterone in dairy products, I would personally need to see good independent verification of these claims to be convinced raw milk is safe - I’m afraid I don’t trust producers
Thats a good point Finty OAL you need to ask your farmer who supplies your milk if the cows are milked during the 6 months while they are in calf … bet your bottom dollar they are same as all cows which was never done in year gone by
yes i did ask him, he said yes they were. He says he uses traditional milking cycles and does not artificially shorten the cycle to produce milk more often during the year, or use products to increase the milk supplies.
If this is the case then your no better off drinking from his cows than any others finty may put me right on this one but milking a cow during the time she is in calf the milk has 10 times more of the hormones in & the reasons I personally took not to touch cow milk products with a barge pole
Just a comment on the research Elinda links to. This is from the US, where the farming lobby is so powerful that they are allowed to inject beef cattle with growth hormones, so they can probably also inject dairy cattle with what they like. In the EU, such injections are forbidden.
Beardie - I avoid all dairy and it is hard at first - I ate loads of diary pre bc. There is dairy in almost all processed foods. And of course cheese and other processed dairy foods contain much higher concentrations of hormones than milk, as it takes such a lot of milk to make cheese, yoghurt etc. It’s particularly hard if you have a sweet tooth. I started out by trying to eat dairy alternatives and read all labels - but realised in the end it was better just to prepare everything myself and completely change my style of eating. I now eat mainly asian style food and cook everything form scratch.
Nottsgal - the research was actually done in Japan, where the growth hormone allowed in the States (rBGH) is banned, as it is here. The use of rBGH is a separate issue from oestrogen and progesterone in milk. The hormones are not fed to the cows - they are a natural by-product of milking pregnant cows.
Birdie I too dont touch any processed foods now (75% of all supermarkets are processed) although most of the family still do but not as much like finty I too stick to as natural as possible & cook from scratch it is strange at 1st but soon becomes a way of life & I wouldn’t want to go back … I do treat myself sometimes & dont feel that im deprived of anything apart from this BC I concider myself healthier than ive ever been
the point about getting milk from my farmer is that it is not pasteurised, so that the naturally occuring organisms in it that attract eostrogen are still in it. Plus the fact that the molecules are quite large and cannot get through the gut wall. Homogonisation is worst than pasteuriation for messing up the structure of milk.
I seem to remeber reading some report that said the japanese study should be left out of metastudies, because it did not take into account the fact that so many japanese died of strokes at a much earlier age than other countries. and it is the older women that get BC. I am sure that it said if you filtered out the older age groups in other countries then there was no significant diffence. I was not looking into BC at the time I was looking into heart desease to help my husbands decision on wether to take statins or not.
Beardie,
I was heavily addicted to icecream and now my ice cream maker is sitting idle covered in dust.
I thought it would be hard to give up milk and milk products but it really isn’t although I find it impossible to get that tangy taste that a bit of cheese adds to cooked savoury dishes. I am using more organic soy sauce than before to compensate.
I always had milk in my drinks but now I’ve shifted to green & white tea I can drink that and roibois tea without soy milk. I enjoy weak decaffeinated coffee with soy milk so much that I have to limit it to one brew at the weekends as I am very intolerant of caffeine. (Great with ice and vanilla on hot days.)
I’ve never eaten processed food except crisps so it isn’t a change for me to cook everything from scratch. However I now buy those small soy desserts to eat with fruit or ground flax seeds and I regard those as processed food but making custard from soy milk doesn’t work that well. On the good side the little portions do help with weight control.
