Well, re: getting kara milk and rice cheese. I went to my local Holland and Barrett shop yesterday, and was able to buy both. In fact they had a buy one get one half price, so I also decided to try almondy milk. Tried the almondly milk in a latte and had some of the rice cheese with my home made bread, and lets just say it will take some getting used to.
The almond milk is something I just can’t stomach. I adore almonds and anything with almonds in except that milk, it has a strange aftertaste to me.
I prefer the Kara with coffee.
I can’t stand the soya cheese but would give the rice one a go.
Elinda x
An interesting article on Kefir from the Los Angeles Times. They suggest there is some way to go in the research yet:
NICE guidance on soy - I have looked into this as Sandytoes mentioned the dietician had said it was in this guidance.
I think it does need some clarification. It is not clear but does appear that they are referring to isoflavones which can be taken as a supplement - as I say it’s not very clear as they refer to it as: soy (isoflavones).
Later in the research evidence they state:
‘Soy extracts provided conflicting effects with a possible weak effect for women without breast cancer’
To be honest I don’t find that guidance particularly helpful. I still don’t know what to think about soy as a food product. I try to have it in smallish amounts although I do like the soy yoghurts and desserts.
Anyone have any views on soy? Elinda x
soy-- I can only give my pre dx views, that have not changed. Soy used to be only consumed in small quantities by asian societies, and only after is was fermented. It was not until the big scares about red meat and animal fat that someone came up with the idea of using the soy waste product of (cannot remember what)as an animal and human food that it became part of our diet. It is cheap, in plentiful supply and so big companies have put lots of money into promoting its health benefits. It is always useful when reading research to see who has funded it–I only read one where the funding was quoted, but it was a soy producing company.
The weston price assiciation go into the problems of humans and animals eating soy at great length, nothing to do with cancer, just that it is bad for our bodies. I cannot remember the reasoning, just remember that I read it and vowed never to touch the stuff.
kefir–thanks for that link, I find it interesting that they distinguished between shop bought and original cultures. I have been culturing for years and the nature of the pearls(thats what you use) change from time to time and that effects the taste and consistancy of the kefir. Once I think the good bits of the culture died because it looked odd and i did not want to drink it.–so I just got another lot off ebay and started again.
the other think I found interesting is that they pooh-poohed the results from mice and rats—wait a minute, are not most experiments on cancer growth and drugs done on animals–are they saying they should not be taken notice of??
I drank kefir for all sort of reasons, nothing to do with cancer. As these studies showed no ill effects I will carry on–my guts definately benefit from it.
now i am totally confused
research—my son is away from work so i cannot ask him. I know people have quoted research on oestrogen levels in the blood after drinking milk. But can someone point me to a good piece of research on how stopping dairy affects the re-occurance of cancer. I would realy like to look at the percentages, especially in older women.
I’m about to start on Femara, and am trying to decide what to do about milk.
Can I ask, those of you who no longer use dairy products, how do you make sure that you have enough calcium in your diet?
I’ve looked at charts showing plant based calcium levels, and I’d have to eat an awful lot of seeds, nuts and beans to get my daily dose.
when i had osteoporosis they prescribed calcium supliments, they made me sick so I stopped taking them.
Its also not just calcium you need, you need vitamin D for your bady to be able to use the calcium. I have taken natural cold pressed icelandic cod liver oil capsules for ages for general health and they have more than the daily recommended dose, and its the right sort of vitamin D extrated from a fish that swam in clean icelandic water rather than something produced in a laboratory. Did you know that most cod liver oil is heat extracted, so it destroys the natural vitamins and so they add artificial vitamins to make up for it.
I seem to remember that if you eat salmon and pilchards with the bones in that is a reasonable source of calcium).
OAL - that’s precisely the problem. There appears to be no research on dairy and its effect on breast cancer cells/tumours and similarly none on stopping dairy and recurrance rates. It’s all crying out to be done.
Kittiekat - good question. I’m adding a link from the Vegan society (Vegans as you probably know have no animal products):
vegansociety.com/lifestyle/nutrition/calcium.aspx
This is from NHS website and shows dairy as well as other sources:
nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Calcium.aspx
some others may be able to advise further. Elinda x
Further to my last post. As I understand it, rates of osteoporosis are higher in Western countries where dairy intake is high and low in countries like Japan where they don’t have much dairy.
A researcher at University of Surrey suggests that this is because of the Western diet ie. too much meat, dairy, grains and insufficient vegetables and fruit. They suggest that this causes a metabolic acidosis (particularly as we age) which is compensated for by the bones:
‘In other words, the body releases material from the bones to counteract the excess dietary acid in the blood. As our kidneys become less efficient in neutralising dietary acid with age, so more material has to be sacrificed from our bones. After a lifetime, bones can come become seriously depleted by this process’
The full article is brief and very interesting.
surrey.ac.uk/advance/people/bone_strength_emma_wynn.htm
the weston price foundation would say that the aspect of western diet that are unhealthy are sugars, flours and unfermented grains. I cannot remember the nutrition, but the grains definatly had something to do with calcium aborbtion. And of course we all know that sugars and starch get the insulin levels all wrong.They also say that any fat except unprocessed animal and some cold pressed olive/seed oils are part of the western diet that is playing havoc with our health
Hi lemongrove I think I shall give those a try like Elinda though I cant stomach the Almond milk I nearly threw up it was like milk of magnesium 
the rice cheese sounds good 
Hi KittieKat … im not dairy free as such I have Organic goats milk & cheese but not alot … you can get calcium from lots of foods dark leafy veg is a high source of calcium so if you are going dairyfree get a good portion of those in you as much as possible Seeds nuts & beans eating small amounts of them along with healthy balanced diet with the dark leafy veg … brocolli has high levels of calcium too I eat that nearly every day & enjoy it stir fried with other veg
Your right there oal, you do need a good source of Vit D to absorb calcium but also a good variety of important Vits to help them ALL absorb Re fish oils I find omega 3 to be the best I take a high dose daily & thats the ONLY Vit suppliment my GP would say anything about he highly recommended it as for the other things I take he wouldn’t even comment.
Pilchards very good although there is alot of debate over salmon as its a BIG fish & usually carries high levels of mercury the farming of salmon is very questionable too !
farmed fish!!! dont get me on that one. Those fish are fed soy and swim in sheep dip.
I only buy tins of line caught salmon. Mind you one day the farms will get round that, they will find a way of getting them out of the tanks and into the factory using hooks so that they can qualify as line caught.
you can get icelandic smoked salmon in the super market if you up for it, mind you that has no bones
Yeah your right there … about smoked fish I noticed all the anti- cancer books ive read they tell you to avoid this due to the carbons & high levels of salt used during the process personally ive not ever been a great lover of smoked fish repeats on me
I’ve thought for some time that the dairy industry has conned the public about the necessity of eating large amounts of dairy in order to get enough calcium. Dairy in conjunction with exercise is important in children to reach MBD (Maximum Bone Density), which through a health lifestyle can be maintained in later life. But for adults, although adequate calcium is necessary for good bone health, there are many other risk factors for osteoporosis including smoking, alcohol, inactivity and a diet rich in protein and low in fresh fruit and vegetables. If you are post menopausal, the best thing you can do is take daily weight bearing exercise, moderate alcohol consumption and eat lots of fresh veggies.
I have my bone density scanned, and mine has increased from the 90’s percentile to over 100% in the year since I gave up dairy. My onc estimates that my bisphosphonate drugs account for 2-3% of the increase. I don’t take a calcium supplement - but I do exercise a lot and eat tons of veg and not much protein, and take Vit D. If my bone density starts to drop, I will consider supplementing.
This is an interesting article for a rather subversive view on dairy and bone health. It has a distinct agenda, but is thought provoking nonetheless:
Can I add to that list Finty has given above and say to reduce caffeine consumption. One study found that women who drank 2 cups of coffee a day suffered a net calcium loss of 22 milligrams daily. Reducing to one, reduced the loss to 6 milligrams. (taken from Jane Plant’s book, refers to quite an old study: Heaney and Recker, 1982). Will see if i can find more. Elinda x
I only have one coffee a day but drink 3 diff types of green tea which have high levels of caffine although Finty had good tip to redude it in the green tea by brewing & tipping :)) but must admit my 1st cuppa of the day is green tea & im not so awake to do that so have full dose of the caffine lol, I stopped taking calcium as im taking IP6 which has calcium in so does the wheatgrass I have & with all the veg i consume Im guessing im getting plenty now
Mekelar I wouldn’t worry too much about the caffeine in green tea - it’s only a fraction (about 1/4 to 1/6) of the caffeine in coffee, so enjoy your first cuppa guilt free.