Carrie, thanks for that!!
Have been trying to cut down on the sugar red meat and up the intake of fruit veg and fish. I don’t smoke and drink and exercise everyday. Just trying to give myself the best possible chance to beat this and make sure it doesn’t come back once I’m finished treatment…
While it may seem sensible to avoid consuming oestrogen in the diet if one’s cancer is oestrogen receptive, that cannot necessarily be achieved by restricting all dairy products. Contrary to what some have written, milk does not contain high levels of oestrogen. Firstly, it is against the law to feed dairy cattle hormones in the UK. Secondly, although the oestrogen content in milk from cows milked in their third trimester of pregnancy is high, we have to remember that the milk we drink is not from one single cow in the late stages of pregnancy, but is blended from many cows (and it is unlikely that they will all be in the late stages of pregnancy). Thirdly, not all farmers milk their cows in the third trimester (many organic farmers don’t, and those who sell raw milk from TB free accredited hurds definitley don’t. Finally, oestrogen is largely confined to dairy fat, and as skimmed milk contains virtually no fat it contains virtually no oestrogen.
Just one more point, one of the largest studies carried out in the UK has found no link between diet and cancer (only alcohol and cancer), and the Country with one of the lowest levels of BC eat a diet high in plant derived oestrogens.
Carrie35 where on earth did you hear “suger” feeds cancer? thats another huge myth ! Johns Hopkins the renowned Cancer Center in the USA ,was forced to put a cancer hoax email update on their website debunking all these issues because of emails circulating the internet as these myths were getting so bad.
hopkinsmedicine.org/kimmel_cancer_center/news_events/featured/cancer_update_email_it_is_a_hoax.html
The ALT industry which also promotes all this kind of stuff is HUGE , and did you know makes as much money in a yr as cancer research ?which is staggering!!!, the reason the NHS and Oncologists dont advise people to avoid dairy is because there simply isnt any evidence to support it, its realy is as simple as that. On the flip side the NHS ARE happy to advise a particular diet for diabetics for instance, as it has been proven they need to aviod certain foods, so i realy dont see your arguement about “not putting too much faith in the NHS” on this.
Also you say “Maintaining an alkaline environment” is advantagous? this too is another huge myth ,the bodys ph balance is tightly regulated so you CANNOT alkalise your body ,and even if it were possible (which it isnt) anything above 9 or below 7.5 youd either be very seriously ill or dead!
Re research in to Diet, diet and breast cancer has been researched endlessly for many many yrs and still to date there has NEVER been any evidence to prove that either Dairy or Red Meat causes or increases the risk of BC, The only ref to Red Meat in cancer ( not breast) is thought to be the way it is cooked ie charing, I expect you already know that EPIC is the largest (well massive actualy) study ever conducted to date into diet and Cancer? EPIC has over 500,000 people in 10 european countries all with very different dietry needs “includeing vegans and vegetarians” , and EPIC concluded in Aug 2010 that "but for the 2 most common cancers Breast cancer and Prostrate Cancer NO strong dietry links have been found!
Very interestinly, Mongolia has extreamly low incidence rates of breast cancer ,dispite their unusal diet (Primarily Dairy and Red Meat!)
Everyone has to do what feels right for them, BUT there is absolutely NO evidence to support any of things you have said in your post regarding breast cancer!
Linda 
Linda for every person you can quote to making myths of diet and associated disease I could find an expert to contradict your findings. Like I said it might all be a load of rubbish but sometimes taking control of your life ie diet is something that you can feel you are doing something for yourself instead of being pushed and prodded along the treadmill of cancer treatments. Plus the power of the mind can work wonders in helping recovery even if its a placebo effect. Quite frankly sugar unless raw natural found in honey etc… Is full of crap and so is a lot of processed food full of chemicals and rubbish and has often had it goodness removed in the quest to make it look appealing so makes sense not to eat it! maintaining a healthy weight and eating loads of fruit and veg and avoiding excess processed food and exercising is the key to good health. Nothing new there, our ancestors cooked proper food without being coated in pesticide or forced in greenhouses and many lived into their 90’s. Regarding your comment about the Mongolians many live past 100 something to do with the environment and altitude that they live in, remote and not changed for centuries.
Carrie ,am happy to be proved wrong, but you wont find a reptuable cancer organisation or cancer research institute anywhere in the world that will support those claims, i can fully understand the need to get back some control in our lives after a Dx of Cancer and yes sometimes a placebo effect makes us believe that its doing something, but, at the same time the internet is full of misleading and potencialy dangerous scaremongering, full of myths and advice to cancer patients which can infact be extreamly harmfull to vulnerable cancer patients, we can all have our views, and we can all quite rightly follow any path that we feel will help us, but it is extreamly important on any cancer forum that cancer patients can get access to reliable info and up to date research that they can trust, for new members to the site who at a time of no doubt already being extreamly anxious and very scared they should not be given misleading information which has no substancial evidence to support it .
I feel pasionately about this, as see all too often the real anxiety, worry and harm misinformation can cause.
Very Best wishes to you
Linda x
Hi Neadi if you are interested in diet then there are some good books and sites to look at the cancer active site by Chris Wollam has a load of info on food to help you through chemo and radiotherapy also I can recommend the following books that help you understand how food react in the body: Foods to fight Cancer Professor Richard Beliveau and Dr Denis Gingras it’s a DK book so easy read with pictures! A less friendly one is Eat to Beat Cancer by Dr Rosy Daniel andJane Sen, it’s a nutritional guide with 40 delicious receipies and finally you could have a look at The Breast CancerPrevention and Recovery Dietby Suzannah Oliver or the Plant Programme - Recipes for fighting breast and prostrate cancer by Professor Jane Plant. The latter two are written by women going through breast cancer. While none will take away your cancer they do help to focus your mind on your diet and analyse what your lifestyle is like and help you change aspects if you want I found these a great motivator when recently diagnosed and feeling helpless as there was nothing I could do about this. Making changes to my diet and lifestyle gave me something other than cancer focus on, you might say a bit of a distraction and it helped me feel back in control of my life in some short way. Now nearly a year on I feel so much better, I have dropped two dress sizes and back to my Pre middle age spread weight and look and feel like I am in my 20’s. I have not only changed my diet and try to eat more healthy without restricting the odd sin and glass of red wine but I have changed my attitude, in fact you could say cancer has been a great wake up call! Yes I now focus on me instead of the family, do not stress about the most trivial thing, take an attitude that if whatever doesn’t get done then tough because eventually it will and I live everyday as if its my last. One thing that I have learnt in this forum is that positivity is a great comfort. Good luck on your journey xx
For me, it’s a risk v. possible benefit issue. Is avoiding dairy going to prevent me getting essential nutrients, or can I adequately get the nutrients, such as calcium, from other sources? Many people around the world have perfectly healthy diets without dairy. I don’t really see dairy-free eating as a problem. It’s not an essential part of a balanced diet. The same goes for not drinking alcohol and avoiding sugar. However, some people may miss sweets, cakes, drinking so much that they feel it impacts their quality of life. We need to support each other in our different choices, not feel threatened by them.
I totally understand why oncologists don’t recommend changing diet. Clinical studies really struggle to show benefits of diet / lifestyle which are much more of a synergy than single factors. Even assuming a dairy / breast cancer link exists, it would be extremely difficult to prove in human trials. There would be no way of getting the discrete populations without hidden variables. This doesn’t mean there isn’t a link, it’s just that the situation is a lot more complicated than drug trials. I really dont’ think there is a pharmaceutical conspiracy against such evidence though.
Carrie, many of our ancestors lived till they were 40.
I too managed to lose 15 kilos when I got the diagnosis - I had just started and I found it helpful to eat sensibly (calorie counting) and get exercise. Unfortunately when I had chemo I put it all on again, and Tamoxifen and AIs have seemingly made it very hard indeed to lose weight.
Cancer certainly is a wake-up call. I can’t wait to finish my 5 years on the tablets.I wouldn’t mind losing two dress sizes myself.
Btw I don’t eat junk food, that is, I cook for myself and have lots of vegetables. But I do eat chocolate.
Carrie the problem is that those who advovate cutting dairy, avoiding sugar, and attempting to eat an alkaline diet, identify a problem which has scientific merit, but then offer solutions which are simply wrong.
For example, yes sugar does fuel cancer, but it also fuels every other cell in your body as well. You can aim for a ketogenic diet, as much as you like, but the fact is your body operates on automatic pilot, and your pancreas will maintain the glucose levels it requires to survive (it’s called homeostasis).
Similarly, yes cancer prefers an acid environment, but you simply cannot alter the acid/alkaline ph of the blood. The stomach is naturally acid, and everything that leaves it is neutralized in the intestine. Again homeostasis will ensure blood ph remains the same.
Finally, yes, if you have oestrogen receptive cancer, then oestrogen will help it grow, but then the solution provided (cutting dairy), is twaddle, because it presumes there is lots of oestrogen in milk when it does not (as far as the UK is concerned).
I am sure that long-term users of this site will remember some of the very heated debates concerning diet, especially dairy. So much so, that people have left over it.
When I was first diagnosed, I agonised over diet and could find no help from the medical profession, other than to avoid soya. I was referred to a dietician, however, but she just talked about general healthy diets and did not have any information on bc diets, specifically. She did, however, contact a colleague of hers who was in research and was told that it was highly unlikely that the oestrogen in dairy would make it through the digestive process sufficiently to make any difference to bc cells. I still have dairy but try to stick to lower-fat, organic versions if possible. I don’t stress over it any more.
I think there are much bigger things driving bc than diet, which are out of our control.
Thankyou Neadi for a very interesting thread. I have been wondering the very same thing and having read the responses still am!
I have always believed that cows milk contains oestrogen and therefore with an er + tumour I may be best to avoid. But Id like more information on which to base my decision.
Diet may not be the main driving factor for b.c but I would bet my last penny on it contributing. I have made lifestyle choices over the years to reduce my chances of getting b.c (strong family history) and ended uo with it anyway but would like to think I can do more. All about being in control I guess.
No worries mandymid!
I know there are so many things out of our control, but if we can at least do our best with out diet, well then we’re going in the right direction…
The biggest risk for breast cancer is being a woman and having breasts! not someting i quess any of us can do much about.
I have often wondered what i could have done different pre BC, but the truth is i dont think there was anything much wrong with my life before and little i could of changed, like lots of ladies on here i didnt have any risk factors for BC, ,no breast cancer in the family, never been overweight ,size 10-12, 8st 7Ibs, 3 kids, have been t-total all my life, ate 95% orgainic, always cooked home made meals from scratch useing mostly fresh ingrediants,very little processed foods,never been on HRT ,and only took the pill for about 2 yrs in my early 20s! BUT… im here with breast cancer for the 2nd time in 5 yrs.
Lemongrove, great post, and thanks for explaining how the body actualy works, it helps to put all the many myths out there into perpective.
Ann, lovely to see you back on BCC, hope you are doing ok pet, will be in touch soon. xx
mandymid, not sure if this helps but CRUK has a section on “Can the hormones in Milk affect Breast Cancer?”
cancerhelp.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/cancer-questions/can-the-hormones-in-milk-affect-breast-cancer
A few top tips i was given early on in my own first DX was, dont believe everything you read online, the university of google is a wonderfull place but also 90% of what you read online medical related is either untrue, misleading, out of date or just plain wrong and in some cases dangerous,check the scorce, persons background ect, ie is the website/person legit, do they come from a medical background, can the claims be backed up scientificaly, or are the claims just antedotal, use critical thinking ,there is a whole industy out there built around cancer its big busisnes, and most importantly check whether the website you are reading is trying to sell you something, ie, supps,books, wacky cancer cures ect, legit and reptuable cancer organisations will NEVER try to sell you anything.
Finaly if your not sure about something and want to check out credentials ,quackwatch has loads of info and articals on many of the dubious cancer claims you might come accross online.
quackwatch.com/00AboutQuackwatch/altseek.html
Linda x
Carrie35 I am with you all the way. Not even taking BC into account sugar as we know it (granulated from Tate & Lyle) is poison. That is hard for me to say as a sweet tooth! All foods have their natural sugars and the processed refined crap that is around to make life more convenient for us is not doing us any good. Just look at obesity!!
I was a nurse in the NHS for 18 years and you have to understand that as professionals we are limited to the advice that we can give our patients. We are not allowed to advocate alternative treatments just the conventional ones that are chosen by NICE as guidelines. You have to follow the protocols and give evidence based information to inform patients. But when these are all coming from the same sources i.e funded by the drug companies, we never get to see how other remedies may work. If you cannot patent a treatment then it will never be used to treat people, and it may just work.
I am not saying that all research is rubbish, it clearly is not. But where the drug companies have the power and the money it will always be western medicine as we know it now.
Mandyj, the simple answer would surely be for the ALT med industry to conduct trials and research wouldnt it? but they dont and its not as though they dont make huge amounts of money to be able to do so, personaly i dont like the term Alternative Medicine because actualy there is no such thing, when a treatment has been proven to work, it is called medicine and is no longer called alternative.
x 
Linda, I take on board what you say about alternative medicine. I just think its a shame that we don’t spend more money studying some of the natural things on this earth to see how they affect diseases. When you look at the original ingredients of some drugs they come from tree bark and foxglove. I am sure the cure from cancer is in the back of someones fridge somewhere!!
With regards to the diet thing, I don’t think we will ever know. I think if we are feeling we are doing the best for our own individual bodies then that positive thinking can only help destress us and hopefully cause us less ill health.
xx
I think a lot of the cancer drugs we have now do come from “natural ingrediants”, for instance Taxotere comes from the Yew tree!, i personaly (and this is only my view) dont think there will ever be a “Cure” for cancer, there are over 200 differeent types of cancer, all with many different subtypes, for instance it has just been found recently that breast cancer alone has over 10 different subtypes ,so all cancers and ever tumour is not the same.
The good news though re breast cancers, is that it is now thought that within the next 15yrs BC will become a chronic desease, much like diabetes ,not cureable ,but treated for life and will no longer be the killer it once was. Great strides are being made with the Genome prodject which has fast forwarded our current knowledge , It is also known that faulty genes are at the root of all cancers so we are at a time thankfully where great advances are being made . Cant come quick enough for those of us already dx !
x
I had read that about Taxanes. Advances in treatment are exciting but in the meantime you may find me in a forest chewing on some tree bark!!
xx
God this is so interesting!! But later on down the road will all the good work being done be ruined with chemo and hormone therapy??
For an advanced nation and species we still know very little about the human body and how to treat it. This is because its unique and evolves with each generation And is very complex. Yes there is so much we have learnt but we have so much more to learn. No one for sure knows how to “cure” cancer and what treatment plan will do the best job. Some of us sail through chemo, others have horrendous side effect short and long term and the same for radiotherapy, hormone therapy etc… You have to weight up the pros and cons and come to a decision that you think you can live with and that will give you the best possible outlook. One thing for sure it’s your decision not your families, your the one that has nightmare with the consequences of their decisions.