To Dairy or Not To Dairy - that is the question?!

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What do we do? I am now facing next stage on my own (ie done the chemo, op and radiotherapy and as triple negative - no more drugs!) I know that diet is one factor but as one friend said, cancer is like a fruit machine, there are lots of options but sometimes all come in together and bang, cancer strikes.

I will not deny it I LOVE FOOD, and before this I lead a reasonably healthy life (yes prob too much alcohol… and chocolate) but I am a farmers wife so am avid about British food, and buy from the local butcher and veg from the farm shop. I asked my onc and he said to eat a varied healthy diet but do cut down on red meat (and to drink green tea). Only very rarely do I eat a ready meal, but I did eat alot of red meat.

So the dilemma begins, and I have heard so many theories,

Dairy - do I give it up, cut down, only eat organic, or switch to goats milk and then be at risk from Osteoporosis (I ate alot of low fat yoghurts which are full of artificial sweeteners and all sorts of stuff - was it these not the milk that caused it??)

Fruit & Veg - Do I eat only organic which has spent 6 - 12 weeks in a container sailing around the world (yes I work for a import company so ;I know what goes on) and from countries which still use chemicals banned in the UK or do I eat from the local farm shop where the veg is non-organic but is picked fresh each day from the field (sometimes I have to manually remove the slugs!)

Sugar / Sweeteners - I was told that sugar feeds cancer so went for sugar free stuff, then I was told that ASpartame is worse and has been banned in the US due to cancer causing chemicals - so what do I do?

A plateful of broccoli is one thing but we all want a treat sometimes so do I go for dairy free, sugar free and fat free - but then, what about the artificial chemicals that are used instead!???

I know this is a can of worms and there are so many theories but I am only 33 with no family history so I am looking to try and do my own thing, so far the medical treatment has worked, I had chemo first and by the time of the op, the lump had just about vanished and there was only a few, random, suspicious cells remaining.

Thanks!!!

Catflap

(PS I have just ordered Jane Plants and Suzannah Olivers books - not arrived yet though so have no opinion on that front yet!)

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Hi Catflap

Congratulations on getting through all your treatment !

I am a little behind you - just started chemo yesterday ! However I have been thinking about diet and what changes I should make for the future. I am only 35 with no family history and worry things I ate in the past may have caused this - I am the type of person who wants to know everything !

I have heard that dairy is not good but have not looked into it properly - I plan to read some books so let me know how you get on with your recent purchases. I will have to go on to tamoxifan post chemo as I was slightly ER sensitive so have the added risk of Osteoporosis.

Good luck with your research !!

Lisa x

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this is an interesting topic - let’s ask our onc and share the info.

I’m going for a mastectomy on 29th Jan so will ask the surgeon and the bc nurses.

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Hey Lisa72 - good luck with the chemo, don’t be scared, you can get through it and it does work (If you want a giggle, I wrote a thread a few months ago mid-chemo on Positive Mental Attitude (bit of a p*** take on the side effects - look in the search engine)

Cancer at any age is a b***** but it really hits hard in the 30’s

Take Care and good luck

C

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I asked my onc what his opinion was on dairy - he said he had no opinion, but that I should drink red wine. I’m obeying his instructions!

I’ve read Jane Plant’s book, amongst others. I still can’t decide whether she is a total crank, or if she’s on to something. I have decided to cut down on dairy where it is easy (every other cup of tea I drink is now green, and I use oat milk on my cereal) but not otherwise as cooking for the family would become impossible. I already have one child who doesn’t eat meat and another who won’t eat fish…

We stopped using margarine and went onto butter some while ago as we weren’t convinced margarine was good for us, now we have swapped onto organic butter. Will that makes any difference? Presumably the milk won’t have had any growth hormones in it?

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Just to confuse the issue further - I gave up all dairy 5 years ago and went on to soya. I did relax this a bit when away from home. Now I have breast cancer. What do you do? My cancer is oestrogen positive. So was it all the plant oestrogens?
Sarcath

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Hi,I’m triple neg and went dairy free after reading Jane Plant’s book during chemo 4 years ago.I’ve been a veggie since my teens and did eat an awful lot of cheese (which I still miss as vegan cheese is a very poor substitute) Don’t know if its the reason that I’m still cancer free (My prognosis was poor and the bc was expected to return very quickly) I wanted to give myself every possible chance, and after reading the book giving up dairy produce seemed to make sense to me.It certainly hasnt done me any harm! It’s sure helped me to know that I was ‘doing my bit’ with the added bonus that I have more energy these days and have no problem keeping the weight that was begining to creep up away By the way I certainly dont eat like a hermit. There’s a lot of delicious vegan food out there.

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One of the first books I read after diagnosis was Prof Jane Plant, life in your hands, it was recommended by a friend diagnosed 4 years ealier who was following it the book and NED. I tried to follow it (as felt slightly emotionally blackmailed into it), but wasn’t too sure on some of her claims, so asked my Onc, Surgeon, BCN and GP their views, none were convinced and my Onc in particular rolled her eyes to the ceiling and advised jane plant was now a very rich lady. I hated not having cheese and crackers with my wine on a saturday night, so compromised and decided all is fine in moderation and will attempt to pick the healthier option if there is one. There have been alot of threads on this site re dairy, they make interesting reading with the variety of views on this subject.

Have just finished reading the book on Karen Keating, she really did change her diet to the extreme, her cancer kept coming back. Personally think I would go for farm shop, veg picked daily with slugs still attached does sound quite healthy and as close to possible as growing in your back garden.

I am now 2 years NED, + on all 3, diagnosed at 37 with no family history. Haven’t a clue what caused mine and neither have any of my consultants.

Debbie

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Ok girls-I give up! What NED?
I’ve switched to goats milk and yoghurt as a sort of compromise but still have the odd bit of chocolate and cheese. It’s so confusing! And what the heck is wrong with broccoli??
Love Gill x

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NED = no evidence of disease
I have a book that says broccoli is particularly good for preventing BC
It seems you can talk yourself into or out of anything if you find the right book.
As Debbie says, moderation in everything.

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I am very sceptical about whether diet makes any appreciable difference. I first had BC in 1990 and continued to eat as before which was pretty healthily and virtually vegetarian. 17 years later BC came back in same breast. Had another WLE, now on Arimidex and am going to continue as before as that gave me 17 cancer free years and I really cannot see the point in searching and worrying about dietary advice when nothing has been proven. I prefer to get on with living as good a life as I can and enjoying myself.

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I agree 100% with Olivia - had original diagnosis in 1995 and I have always ate sensibly and things in moderation - I’m not overweight, don’t smoke or drink and used to be extremely fit. Was then diagnosed with secondaries in 2004 and don’t believe that it was diet related.

There is no proof and one minute they are saying such and such is good for you and the next minute you hear it’s not.

My oncologist said to me when my cancer came back ‘please tell me that you’re not going to cut diary and red meat out of your diet’ as so many of her patients were and she said everything in moderation.

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Its so hard to know isn’t it? Regarding Karen Keating - she may have cahnged her diet but my onc said that she refused chemo and tamoxifen because of the side effects as she didn’t want a premature menopause so really I think diet was irrelevant in that case. I wanted to read that book but am scared - is it depressing?

Alise x

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Thanks for the replies girls, helps the old pea brain sort things out!

By the way, nothing at all wrong with broccoli, thats the point, it is very good for you but it doesn’t taste nearly as nice as chocolate!!

Thanks

Catflap

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Hi Catflap

I LOVE food too…all kinds of food.

Jane Plant’s book annoys me intensely. The evidence on dairy and breast cancer is unproven. Yes we all know about a ‘healthy’ diet…5 fruit and veg, cut down on processed foods, lowish in fat, salt and sugar. But hey food is one of life’s joys, and certainly now I have a recurrence of cancer eating a good meal, eating in nice restauarants, enjoying all kinds of food is one thing which lifts my mood.

In the UK and US at the moment there is an incrdilby unhealty obsesseion with food…all those obesity programmes, and diet police [programmes, and newspaper scare mongering stories. So not surprising that this obsession has tipped over into the ‘blame the patient’ ‘heal yourself’ culture of cancer causes and cures.

I do understand that many people with cancer, feeling helpless and frightened in the face of a diagnosis, want to DO something. Cancer treatments are horrble and they don’t always work and we get desperate. We pretend we ‘can help ourselves’ . It concerns me that this version of ‘helping ourselves’ can end up with moralistic prescriptions and guilt (like all those failed New Year resolution diets.)

Eating sensibly, eating with joy, eating nourishing and at times indulgent food does not kill. Cancer kills and you can’t eat when you’re dead.

I know about the pressure of all these books and articles. I have a regional recurrence of breast cancer, similar to the one which Jane Plant got. Chemotherpy isn’t working for me right now, and in desperation and despair even I have wondered about giving no dairy a whirl. What have I to lose you may ask? Well for me as well as losing some food I really like…cheese, chocolate mousse…it would mean losing my intelligent capacity to weigh up evidence, to think(as well as feel) about my disease. It would mean giving in to the shedloads of rubbish (Kate Carr said that) which is spoken and written about cancer. I simply won’t do that.

Jane

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Thank you for that Jane, it’s so easy to get drawn into thinking that it’s somehow our fault.

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I have to say I completely agree with Olivia and Jane - it is bad enough that the cancer had robbed me of my breast and, albeit temporarily, my hair (and sometimes my sanity) - but it isn’t robbing me of my food as well !!

I am a firm believer that whilst diet may be a small contributory factor somewhere in the process - it is not the root cause of this disease and there is no firm evidence anywhere to suggest otherwise. I am so sick of the constant onslaught of ‘good advice’ bandied about on tv and in magazines about which foods cause which problems, which you should avoid, and which you should be cramming in everyday.

I am an extremely fussy eater and always have been - I don’t eat vegetables at all, I don’t eat eggs/cheese or pasta/ very rarely have milk of any variety - though I do enjoy my fruit and red/white meat. Could this have ‘caused’ my cancer ?? I very much doubt it - and until someone can categorically prove otherwise I will continue to eat and drink the things I always have.

Margaret x

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Hi folks
Read this with interest. I’m 37 and considered myself on top of diet, fitness etc and got BC at 37 with no history and an agressive little brute growing in me. I have considered the non diary and mentioned it to my GP. I am married to a dairy farmer (not diary as I just typed LOL) and he is supportive of whatever feels right but I’m not convinced.
GP says if it makes you feel you are doing something fine but that’s not really enough to give up on cheese etc. Also what about plant hormones etc.

I’m fed up putting on TV and another new theory - if I had smoked they’d blame that (did not smoke) . If I had been unfit - but walk 3 miles every morning before work. Took a drink in moderation. Had children before 30 , periods did not start early, no family history !!!
Now on TV I see this link with obesity - I am not, nor ever have been overweight. So what caused it?? If we knew that we could be rich.

I think I will do my best to eat in moderation, drink in moderation and laugh a lot.
I personally believe stress may be a key factor. The year before I was diagnosed my dad had been ill and died and there was a lot going on in our lives. But again, other folks have parents who are ill and no BC.

I like to think I am a logical person who does not do things on whims and anecdotes so I will be sensible but I trust my oncologist and will take his advice on diet etc.Good Luck

MuddyXX

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I also agree with Olivia and Jane…i’ve read suzannh olivers book…frightened the crap out if me as I first read it just before starting chemo!!..but didn’t find it quite so intense as I believe Jane Plants to be [haven’t read it].

I think we’re all looking for a reason for having BC…and I don’t believe the answer is as simple as diet etc.,…I think also what we are also looking for is a way to be ‘’ in control ‘’ again.

Unfortunately I don’t believe we can ’ control '…we can be sensible, eat well, drink in moderation exercise etc.,…but isn’t that a case of ‘’ shutting the gate after the horse has bolted ‘’…so to speak…obviously these things may help us to stay in remission…but again there is no hard evidence.

I think we have to try to live our lives…and keep our fingers crossed!!

karen

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I just can’t get my head round all these ‘change your diet’, ‘exercise more’, ‘cut down on alcohol’ etc. If all these things are a risk for BC then why do all overweight, unhealthy, heavy drinkers not get it? Yes, this is all sensible advice for a healthy lifestyle, but preventing BC, I’m not so sure. It just seems like ‘luck (?) of the draw’ to me, but I could be wrong.

Julie x