Anyone else fasting while on chemo?

[tempori parce]

Fasting realy helpt al lot! Compared with the first 2 rounds when my wife didn't fasten! A very very big difference. We could still walk 10 km a day! She felt ok. She used to eat 48 hours before the chemo until 48 hours after the chemo only some fruit and/or vegatabels. And drunk tea or water. She did that until the 9 cycle. So the everyday walk and the fasting helped a lot. After chirurgy she was NED. People in the hospital where amazed of her fitness during treatment!

[Melba72]

Hi All,

I came across this thread whilst google searching for information about fasting and have found it very interesting. I was diagnosed with HER2+ on 11th Oct and have my first of 4 EC chemo treatments on this coming Tuesday. I've been so scared about how to manage the side effects, so I've decided to try fasting to see if it help.

Finger crossed🤞🏾.. i'll update you when i'm done
Mel

[Agarside]

As part of my regime I took a multi vit/ mineral drink for pregnancy as best value, garlic capsules for infection (always take anyway) but for my fluids would drink Marmite and Oxo cubes in hot water to boost immunity. Inever had probs with WCC it was always RBC.

[JadeSELondon]

Hi. Does anyone have experience of fasting with a low white blood cell count?
I’ve fasted through 3 of my 4 Dicetaxel and the first of 4EC. I started fasting because the first chemo caused gastric side effects and I ended up in hospital with neutropenic sepsis. No nausea or side effects with fasting (although I am now getting some latent effects such as numbness in fingers and feet and bone ache).
My next EC is on Monday, but yesterday’s blood test showed my white blood count was quite low (0.9). So I am wondering whether fasting would further lower my white count. I don’t want Monday’s blood test to stop me from having my next chemo! My understanding of fasting is that it lowers the white count and then the white count bounces back up as soon as you start to eat again as the body creates new, healthy white blood cells. I really want to fast to avoid nausea. I am thinking about taking vitamin tablets during the fast as a precaution. Dilemma!

[blueash]

For a weekly treatment you can't fast for 4 whole days so I would fast for 48 hours before and then a few hours after. It is the hours before that are protective of your good cells especially those lining your gut.

[NiamhB]

Hi everyone. This is my first post. I'm so delighted I came across this thread. Fasting has given me a sense of control over this whole chemo thing! I'm treating it as though it's just another medicine I have to take to get through it!

I was wondering if anyone has tips on how best to fast for weekly taxol? Or if it's even necessary. I believe it's easier on the body than AC. I fasted this week for my first AC chemo and so far, three days in, I'm doing well. No nausea!

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Niamh

[maccloepfil]

I just started today.  Had my last meal for the next 48 hours or so this am.  Have done a few previous fastings to get ready for this longer fasting.  Have gotten up to 18 hours without any problems and felt as if I could easily go longer. 

[LALALAND]

All Bran and dried apricot's worked wonder's. Good luck xx

[Carolinenaidoo]

Good morning

So far I feel like a fraud I’ve taken my sickness meds and steroids but have felt fine apart from being a bit tired. Quick question I feel a little bit constipated even though I’m drinking loads and diet is ok any tips? Thank you.

[JacqB]

Hi
I found a good book on Amazon “Fight Cancer with a Ketogenic Diet” by Ellen Davis. It’s a very interesting read on this topic.
Jacq x

[JacqB]

Hi Caroline
I took my steroids on an empty stomach with plenty of water. I didn’t take any anti sickness meds apart from the one given just before the start of my infusion at the hospital.
Jacq x

[Carolinenaidoo]

Hi guys I had my first round of chemo yesterday. I’ve fasted since Sunday evening having a tin of veg soup on Monday and a banana last night! Couldn’t quite do just liquid. I will continue till this evening. I’ve just seen my anti sickness and steroids say to take with a meal. What has everyone else done about this? Many thanks.

[blueash]

Ali you really have to check out this man:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEE-oU8_NSU&t=351s

In a nutshell fasting and low carbs diets starve cancer cells.

In practice this is a 3 day water only fast about once a month and then One Meal a Day or an eating window of 4 hours meaning that you do not eat for 20 hours a day. When you do eat you have minimal carbs, I cannot do keto which means high fats so I just keep my carbs to less than 80 to 100 every day when I am eating.

[JacqB]

Hi all
A brief update: I did theee rounds of docetaxel, pertuzumab, cyclophosphamide and herceptin in a fasted state consuming only water and black coffee for 72 hours. Side effects were minimal and very manageable. I got a bit cocky and did my fourth round eating soup and adding cream to my coffee. It was horrible. I felt sick and ill and the aches made me feel like an old woman. I have no idea if this was due to the cumulative effects of the chemo or due to my adding food. Probably a combination of both. I just know that for my next chemo (four FEC) I will definitely fast again.
All the best to my fellow fasters
Jacq x

[Embolorry]

That’s brilliant Ali!
I also have/had lobular cancer and was told due to it not responding well to chemo that I had to have mastectomy first (which I did), but now suffering 6 rounds of chemo for the ‘clear up’ process!!!
I do wonder what would have happened if I did the chemo first ..... esp with fasting!
Def think fasting helps- have had 3 rounds of FEC in a fasted state and managed very well and then had 1 round of T in a non fasted state and suffered horrendously !!!
Anyway I hope you carry on smashing it (have you done much nutritional research???),
Hugs,
Em

[Ali50harg]

Hi 

hope everyone is well.

i am now 2 weeks on from my fourth chemo whilst fasting and wanted to give you an update on my experiences, side effects etc. I am on TC x 6.

I would like to say that I am not a health freak by any stretch of the imagination. Although I expertise regularly and am not overweight, I enjoy eating out and the odd glass or 5 of wine and prosecco. I eat red meat and dairy and love cake. 

i have done 2 fasts eating about 300 cals once a day (eg tuna salad) in the early evevening and 2 fasts drinking just water and tea. I found no difference with the side effects and have not taken the anti sickness meds post the last 2 chemos and have had no nausea or vomiting and my appetite has been very good.

i have, however, felt extremely tired for about 5 days after but this is manageable and I have still managed to go out for a walk, ironing, light housework etc.  I have been wearing the cold hands and feet protectors during my chemo and have not experienced any problems with neuropathy. 

BUT MOST INTERESTINGLY, I had an mri scan after the third chemo and was told that my tumours (I have 3) had shrunk by about 60%. I was told by my consultant prior to starting chemo that my type of cancer (lobular)does not respond well to chemo as it is slow growing so he was understandably very pleased also.  After I finish the 6x DC I am having 9 weeks of taxol so am hoping for a very good final result prior to surgery as I was originally to.d that my cancer was inoperable.

Could this be down to the fasting? Who knows but it’s certainly food for thought (no pun intended)

have a a fantastic weekend everyone.

Ali x

[blueash]

The easiest way to prepare for it is to stop breakfast from tomorrow and have an eating "window" say noon til 7 pm or what suits you. When you can easily do that drop lunch a couple of times a week. From there it is easy to do 24 hour fasts - 6pm dinner then 6 pm dinner the next day.

Once that is a doddle (and I promise it gets to be) then anything longer is easy because the "hunger" nevers gets any worse!

What happens is that if you have been a "grazer" as in while you are awake seldom do you go a couple of hours without eating or drinking something your body gets used to that routine and it reminds you when you are not feeding it as usual. So you need to re-train it.

Then the next tip is to have a fatty meal and not many carbs the last meal before your fast I would have a smoked salmon omlette and a salad. No chips, bread etc this is ultra important because then your body has the right enzymes in your gut to keep your insulin low (insulin makes you hungry). When I did it I found it very easy BUT I did a lot of research and these days I eat one meal a day and every few month put in a 3 day fast to keep my IGF-1 levels lower.

This is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j15GKS8apo

[Carolinenaidoo]

Thanks for the earlier message Jacq.
So I found a pea sized lump in my breast on 7 July, saw doc on 9 July then hospital on 20 July for mammogram and then biopsy’s. They told me there and then it was cancerous about 5cm big.
Went back last Tuesday where they said I’d be better having chemo first then surgery. They are hoping it may shrink and also if I have chemo first if there are any problems after surgery they won’t be worrying about getting on with chemo. I’m fine with all of that. I’d heard about fasting and asked my nurse but she hasn’t heard of it but said to mention it to my oncologist. I see them on Wednesday.
I know I haven’t started chemo yet but I’m very interested in fasting either side. Can anyone offer up a plan ie what do you eat and drink before and after. I see some of you just have water and coffee whilst others have miso soup and steamed veg. The more info the better for me!
Thanks to letting me onto your thread and I hope your all as comfy as you can be this evening.

[JacqB]

Hi Reddi
Just a a quick update, I messaged The Longo team and got a pretty standard response warning me that fasting can be dangerous if unsupervised. So as my team won’t even discuss it, I do feel very much alone in this process. 5 days on from fourth T and I feel good. Went out with friends for a curry last night and had he hottest one I could stand. It was a delicious taste of normality.
Hope you are well
Jacq x

[JacqB]

Hi Ali
Glad to hear you’ve managed to escape on holiday. Hope T #4 went ok. I had mine on Wednesday and am definitely feeling it’s effects now!
That mouse clip was interesting wasn’t it? I’d not come across it before @blueash posted it here,
Hope everyone is doing ok whether feasting or fasting. .
Jacq x

[Ali50harg]

Hi Jacq

ive been away on hol so have tried to have a holiday from cancer too 😂

I have seen the mice before. I think this footage appeared on ‘the science of fasting’ on Netflix. It’s certainly very persuasive. 

4th chemo today so I will report my experiences on the thread in a few day. I’m trying to rest because I felt extremely tired after my last chemo. Think I did too much.

thanks for the heads up on the mice

Ali x

[JacqB]

Reddi
In some scientific literature, Alzheimer’s and dementia are being called type theee diabetes ie. diseases of poor glucose control. Many diseases are now being linked to insulin resistance. You only need to look at all of us humans shaped like beer barrels to see something is badly wrong.
As you can tell I’m quite interested in all this, I just wish I’d adopted a low carb lifestyle decades ago. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be here now if I had.
Jacq x

[reddi]

@JacqB There is also some newish research that a ketogenic diet can be used to treat Alzheimer's and other diseases of cognitive decline. It will be interesting to see how our understanding of the metabolic origins or triggers of disease will evolve over the next few years.

[JacqB]

Hi Reddi
I’m not at all surprised that your friend advised you to look at diet. I love it when doctors and researchers stand up and speak for fasting 😊
I’ve been low carb/ keto for a while and have always found that when truly in ketosis I feel amazing. Alert, energetic and very clear headed. Unfortunately I have a tendency to fall off the wagon and eat too many carbs and drink too much wine, although I have curbed both since my diagnosis.
I gather most info from dietdoctor.com. It’s an amazing website run by metabolic superstars! The info re fasting relates more to weight loss, but there are nuggets about chemo, all supportive.
I may well email the doctor when the chemo is finished, and as I’m on the ROSCO trial, I will inform them too as a part of the trial is monitoring wellbeing. I don’t know if my little N=1 experiment has any value as I have no way of knowing how I would feel on a standard diet?
Last T tomorrow and my Pac-Man is definitely going to be sugar free!
I hope you are feeling as well as possible and keep glowing!
Jacq xx

[reddi]

@JacqB A friend of mine who is a cancer researcher in the US immediately told me to cut down my glucose as much as possible when I told him about my Dx. (He's a co-founder of the Angiogenesis Foundation -- which researches how to influence blood supply to tumors -- and did a TED talk a few years ago on what to eat to beat cancer.)  I didn't know that glucose ws used as a contrast for MRI -- totally makes sense, but also fascinating.

Obviously, the brain only operates with glucose and ketones, so cutting glucose requires careful management. IIRC from earlier in the thread, it sounds as though you have read up ketogenic diets (and how to monitor for when your body has entered ketosis, to afford good brain energy while going low glucose/carbs). I'm not yet in a place where I can dedicate the time and resources to getting into ketosis every day, but I've pared back my glucose/carbs a great deal. The big point of resistance I've experienced when talking to doctors and nurses about fasting / ketosis / etc. are their concerns about how this might interact with the fatigue and immmunosuppression that come with chemotherapy. It is a delicate balance.

Plus, Longo's mice models are very encouraging, but there is limited data on humans -- and I don't know if it will ever be possible to do a true study of the effects, since it's kinda impossible to do an experiment on the effects of fasting on chemotherapy where subjects don't know if they're in the control or condition arm. But there seem to be so many people trying it, it would be interesting to see if a "natural experiment" might provide some data in support. Have you thought about sharing a report of your experience with Longo? 

[JacqB]

Hello fellow fasters
I hope everyone is doing well with minimal side effects.
One of the reasons I fast, and follow a low carb (glucose) diet, is that I have read several articles about cancer and it’s abnormal glucose uptake. Glucose is used as a contrast for MRI because cancer cells take up far more glucose than normal cells in order to grow. They literally light up with he sugar. I envisage my tumour as a sugar hungry Pac-Man that I’ve forced onto a diet! It really helps when I say no to bread, pasta, rice, potatoes etc.
Here’s a quote from UCL “The new technique, called ‘glucose chemical exchange saturation transfer’ (glucoCEST), is based on the fact that tumours consume much more glucose (a type of sugar) than normal, healthy tissues in order to sustain their growth”
This information alone gives me confidence in my choice in the face of opposition from my oncologist.
All best wishes
Jacq x

[Dutchie]

Hi Jacq
Of course we should avoid foodpoisening, but nothing wrong with shrimps or smoked salmon, if handeled with the right care. I was advised not to have fatty fish the day before, the day of and the day after the chemo, so I did not. My chemo gives me dry mouth; anything with peper or ginger I find too strong now. I love little gelatine puddings with blueberries, strawberries and or rasberries. Especilally with the warm weather. And nothing supports the immunesystem like home made chickensoup, made the old fashiond way from boiling the bones and meat for a few hours. There is now even scientific proof for what generations of women knew! Especially when at risk for neutropenia I would highly recommend to celebrate the end of the fasting period with homemade chicked soup. I also noticed that a few slices of cheese (Emmenthaler) did me well, must have been in need of extra salt in this tropical heat. And for the mussels: I checked each and everyone very carefull for damage before boiling and as usual don’t eat the ones that don’t open well. Good luck and let me know how you are doing. 🍀🍀🍀

[JacqB]

Hi Dutchie
I was intrigued by your food list. I have been advised to avoid all shellfish, shrimp and prawns because of the risk of food poisoning during spells of low immunity. Having been through two admissions for neutropenia, I’m a little paranoid about such things. I too am far more fatigued than normal, nothing that a two hour nap can’t sort !
First day of my fast today in prep for round four of chemo on Wednesday. Hope you have a giod week.
Jacq x

[Dutchie]

Day 2 after my first chemo was fine, day 3 in the morning not great, much better after two hour sleep in afternoon. Continued my ant- nausea medican. Had shrimps, steak, salmon, homemade chickensoup, eggs and mussels over the course of Fri-Sunday. Needed much more sleep than before this all started. Kids are all away, so could take the time for myself. Will have a bowl of yoghurt before going to sleep and a big breakfast if I am up for it and than back to the 72 hours semi-fasting. And then two weeks of rest. Halleluja. This is not going to be the breeze I hoped for, but I am sure I also will pull through.

[JacqB]

Hi Dutchie
Glad to hear you are coping well, long may it continue 😊. It’s also great to have a dietician on board with this way of eating during treatment, It can feel quite lonely at times when most people just think I’m being flaky!. All best wishes
Jacq x

[Dutchie]

Hi JacqB
Quick update: all went well, no side effects as of yet and last day of diet was a breeze. I walked 45 min early this morning (as usual) without any problems . The airco in my office was a life saver. Slept for two hours when I came home and enjoyed a big bowl of homemade chickensoup afterwards. I am well aware that there will be darker days on the horizon, but so far, so good! Happy and relaxed mama in her hammock right now

[JacqB]

Go mama!
😊

[Dutchie]

Jacq you were right, ORS contains glucose. Not a good plan for the fasting days. I have had only raw veggies and thick vegetable soup for the last 40 hrs and it went better than expected, although thinking about food ALL THE TIME. I am a dietician by training and have become a bit creative about the 'almost' fasting. Intend to keep a diary of what I eat. For tomorrow I have prepared two bottles or ginger water with lime to take to the hospital. Now nicely cooling down in the fridge. And a nice, red, juicy red beet salad. It is great to have some control back! Will be in the hospital from 8-5, hope all will go well. Bring it on, Mama is ready!

[JacqB]

Thank you for the advice @fish. This is definitely not something to do lightly. I went into this very overweight so basically my body fuels itself during the fast, I also follow a pretty low carb diet when not fasting so my body is used to running on fat. I’m taking S-Caps for electrolytes and I also check my blood results on chemo day. So far all has been ok, my main problem has been neutropenia which is not linked to diet. I’ve got some delicious soup ready for Thursday and everything crossed for minimal SE’s. All best wishes for your continued recovery.
Jacq x

[fish]

At the tail end of 2017 I was diagnosed with Stage 4 bladder cancer with lymphatic system involvement. I fasted for 36 hours prior to and 24 hours after completing each cycle (4 cycles MVAC with a week off in between each cycle. MVAC - Methotrexate, Vinblastine, Adriomycin, Cis-Platin) with Neulasta on the last day of each cycle for immune support.

I had minimal side effects until after the last cycle when I got a nasty case of “Methotrexate Mouth”. Terrible mouth sores! Under my tongue, down my throat, etc.! This extended my fast for an additional 5 days! which landed me in the hospital with screwed up electrolytes and severe weakness! After discharge I fell down in the parking lot of a local restaurant and wound up with a cracked skull and brain surgery to remove a clot on my brain.

I rate the results as mixed. I was initially given a “complete remission” diagnoses 2 months later but I still am dealing with the neurological effects from the fall!

If you do this please pay attention to any side effects from your chemo! I was warned about the “Meth Mouuth” but got careless and am paying for it!

[JacqB]

You can do this! 🥊🥊🥊😊

[Dutchie]

Hi Jacq

thanks for your quick reply, will check the ORS for glucose. I just packed cucumber and bell peppers for lunch in the office and my hubbie will make vegetable soup for tonight. Let's get this show on the road!

[JacqB]

Hi Dutchie
Is that ORS rehydration salts? I think these contain glucose which could negate the effects of fasting. Dr Valter Longo advocates a fasting mimicking diet, you can eat steamed veggies with salt and also some very dark chocolate! I prefer to stick to plain water as a little food would just make me want more. I’ve not found it difficult, the first 24 hours are hardest then it is plain sailing especially when you see how much it helps with side effects.
Good luck with your fast.
Jacq x

[Dutchie]

Hi there

I am about to start my combination of chemo and immune therapy (PCT-Pertuzumab) on Wednesday. I have Paget and Invasive breastcancer (ER-,Pr-,HER2+). I have decided to try the fasting (48 hrs before and 24 hrs after). I was thinking of using ORS. Anyone experience with that. I am from the Netherlands and determined to keep working trough all of this. And scared...

[JacqB]

Thank you for the link blueash, very interesting.
Jacq x

[blueash]

Thanks for the update Ali, not sure if you have seen this video but look at the fed mouse at about 42 seconds in and the fasted mouse at about 50 seconds in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGafhm1cuSI 

That is what made me do it and it worked like a dream for me:

[JacqB]

Hi Ali, thanks for the update. Great to hear that you are coping so well with your treatment. I have had some GI issues but like you, no mouth sores or neuropathy and only mild nausea. The tiredness has definitely increased and I did suffer a bout of neutropenia this time. All in all I’m convinced that fasting is helping with side effects and determined to continue for round four next week.
Jacq

[Ali50harg]

Hi everyone 

Thought I’d give an update on the aftermath of my docetaxel chemo last Tuesday after fasting for 3 days.

i have felt really well but on Thursday (2 days post chemo) I felt extremely fatigued and spaced out, more so than before (this was my third dose). I have been prepared for this as I understand that the tiredness is cumulative. However, I have had no other side effects apart from this and by Sunday, I felt back to normal and have been for a short run this morning. I have had no nausea and did not take any anti nausea meds after the pre chemo pill. I have had no digestive tract issues or sore mouth. The achy flu type symptoms have also been much better this time. In a nutshell, I really believe the fasting helps with side effects and will continue with this regime throughout my treatment.

i will update again prior to my next cycle in case I get any side effects further down the line. I did experience some issues with my skin 10days after my second cycle but changed my cleanser which I felt was too harsh and this cleared up.

Hope everyone stays well.

Ali x

[Lolly_Jolly]

Round 2 of EC tomorrow. Am hoping it goes as well as last time. Have fasted much the same although did have a green juice which I think helped. Must stop now...thinking about food is making me hungry! Hope all has gone well today Ali.
Lou

[JacqB]

Hi Ali
That’s great news re tumour response 😊 I will see my surgeon on the 19th and I’m really keen to know what response I have had to chemo, I can no longer feel my lump which I hope is a good indication. I’m Day 7 now after docetaxel and cyclophosphamide, side effects are mainly bowel related and I have a bad taste in my mouth, I’m more tired than last time but other than that feel ok. Back on a Keto diet which I’m really enjoying. Good luck with your next dose. Here’s to minimal side effects and impressive responses!
Jacq x

[Ali50harg]

Hi Jacq

I am having round 3 tomorrow of docetaxel and cyclophosphamide. I went to see the breast surgeon last Wednesday for an update as I am having chemo first to shrink tumours (I have cancer in both breasts). Both he and the breast care nurse commented how well I looked but I have not said that I am fasting (no one has asked). More signifantly, he said my biggest tumour had become softer and more mobile which indicates the chemo is working at this stage which I am relieved about as apparently my type of cancer (lobular) is slow growing and therefore does not always respond well to chemo. 

I started my fast last night and have eaten some very low carb soup this eve (around 300 cals). I’m having water all day tomorrow but will probably have some more soup again tomorrow evening.

will update on my side effects in the next few days.

Ali x

[JacqB]

Hi fellow fasters
How are you all doing? Had dose number 3 on Wednesday, again in a fasted state. It went really well and I feel ok today. My oncologist commented on how well I am doing in respect of side effects. Fingers crossed that it stays that way. Have any of you informed your doctors that you are fasting and are they supportive?
Jacq xx.

[JacqB]

Thanks Em
It is good to know that others are fasting too. At the moment iced coffee is my saviour. 😊 looking forward to a delicious lunch on Thursday!
Jacq x

[Embolorry]

Just want to write to support you jacqb, you can do it!
I fasted for slightly over 48 hours before and then 24 hours after my second dose of chemo and I must say I feel so much better than the first round.
I really think it works and it does make complete sense. I must admit I found it hard to not think about food all the time!
I also didn’t take many of the anti sickness meds which I think helped.
Anyway you can do it,
Em
Xxxx

[Lolly_Jolly]

Thanks so much to everyone on this thread. I too fasted for my first round of EC 12 days ago. I restricted my calories on Monday to around 500 low carb and then fasted Tuesday, Wednesday day of chemo and then started eating 24 hours after on the Thursday. I think I could have probably eaten more on Monday as I felt a bit sick on Wednesday. Had been advised to drink coconut water and that really helped.
I had no nausea, no sickness and no joint aches - and I missed one of the anti sickness tablets completely. My only symptom was a headache that started if I over did things. I didn't feel tired so think perhaps that was my body's way to signal fatigue!!
12 days on I feel really good so much better than I had expected and although I assume the effects of the cycles (4 × EC + 4 x paclitaxel) are cumulative and will get worse I feel it's a good start.
I too suffered from constipation but found pysllium husks - they are brilliant! You can add to food or drink in water. I had a teaspoon twice a day for a couple of days and it worked a dream.
Interestingly, I did tell my oncologist and he was Ok with the fasting but knew nothing about it!!
Thanks again to you all..I would not have been brave enough to do this without your information. Please keep updating the thread x