Travel Insurance

[Lynnq]

I asked my consultant about the 'terminal' definition. He said that he considered terminal to mean that you are in the last few months of life, and no more treatments are available to you and - he said - I am a long way from that. I told this to the lady at Eurotunnel and she said that's fine then. I then asked her what their definition of 'terminal' is. She said that it was not for them to decide, but the doctors. I also receive PIP......my consultant said that he could not be sure how long anyone would continue to live for...........

[pam01]

Interesting discussion!.....I also note that the wording is "defined for this purpose".....so it would seem to be perfectly reasonable to ask eurotunnel how they define "terminal" for their purposes.....x

[nicky08]

Hi Bev
Thanks for that. Having re read my post it reads as if I'm worried about the DS1500 being signed when it shouldn't have been! Couldn't be further from the truth other than I obviously don't want to ever be told I've got 6 months to live ;-) But thanks for looking up the exact description from the form as it does seem to show that whether you have PIP or DLA under special rules you have not actually been told your disease is terminal and therefore this should not be implicated in any claim if you have this travel insurance. So far no medical professional looking after me has used the word 'terminal' and, at this point in time, I don't believe they would if questioned should a claim arise.
Nicky x

[Bevlaar]

Hi Nicky

if you google Form DS1500 there are downloads in pdf you can look at but the first page is info for the referring clinician and says

"can be issued to patients with terminal illness (defined for this purpose as a progressive disease where death as a consequence of that disease can be reasonably expected within 6 months")

I think the wording ....can be reasonably expected...is relevant here when interpreting. It may he reasonable to expect it but no-one will dispute if survival is longer.

Page 2 of the form is the claim form, its very brief and does not ask if the patient is terminally ill, just asks for date of diagnosis, past or current treatment and whether patient is aware of prognosis, and details of clinical features like staging and tumour markers, quite a basic form. 

Hope this helps ♥

Love bev xxxx

[Porkie]

Ladies - I recently found out that there is a company called Swiss Assist - which is a Swiss company that arranges to fly you back with medical assistance from Europe destinations if you will need to stay in hospital for more than 3 days. Whilst this is not medical insurance it is only 60 euros for a years cover and I think is worthwhile having especially if for any reason the travel insurance does not cover. They do not ask for health details but you must be fit to travel and they will not cover if you have had chemo or radiotherapy within 2 months so I realise not for everybody but may help some. Jackie xx

[nicky08]

Hi

I was worried about the use of 'terminal' in their policy wording so I phoned them up (having already taken the policy out) just to confirm whether `I was covered or not.  I did say to the advisor that I may need to speak to their underwriters for this confirmation.  However when I told him specifically that I had secondary breast cancer ie cancer that had spread beyond the breast he said I was covered and they would apply the word 'terminal' to anyone who knew they had only a few months to live.  

I do see how by having PIP/DLA under special rules a medical professional has signed a form to say you only have 6 months to live but as this seems the only way we can get this award there is a discrepancy in these two situations.  As my original DS1500 was signed over 6 years ago and I have been lucky enough to live longer than the 6 months my GP signed the form for do I challenge his knowledge? Or do I accept that I may live longer?  I certainly wouldn't be going back to him to say he had made a mistake as I am nearer to that last 6 months than ever and there is no way of knowing how long I may live for at this point in time.  As far as I am aware the DS1500 does not use the word 'terminal' but I could be mistaken.

Not sure this helps but I am just adding the fact I have had it confirmed by Eurotunnel that having secondary breast cancer does not mean you have had a terminal diagnosis.  BTW their policy wording is now quite different from a year or so ago when I too wouldn't have taken it out, it changed in January of this year if I remember correctly.

Nicky

[Bevlaar]

Just thought I'd add though that it does state on the DWP website regarding claiming under special rules, that if you do in fact live longer than 6 months your claim and benefit won't be affected. Once it is awarded it runs until you renew your claim. X

[Bevlaar]

Hi Wensteed...thats a very good point, as I currently have a claim going through for PIP under the special rules on the advice of the welfare office at the hospital I'm receiving treatment, even though im not dx as terminal either.

Youre right, this could be a "get out clause" for Eurotunnel. I may ask the question at my next clinic appointment in 2 weeks x

[Lakeslover]

I think it could affect it because the PIP rules specify for special rules your doctor has to confirm life expectancy is less than 6 months (i know many oncologists will do this, even where they say they cannot be sure of that). In my view it could be used as a get out from paying a claim.

I think the only way to be safe would be to ask Eurotunnel to put in writing their definition of terminal, and then ask your oncologist to read the definition and specifically record in your notes that in their opinion you do not meet the eurotunnel definition.

The uncertainty over exactly this (my husband has pip under special rules for cancer) has stopped me using. Eurotunnel.

[Wensteed]

Hi All,

I've also recently taken out an annual worldwide policy from Euro Tunnel and secured a letter from my

Oncologist to say I was fit for travel (just as a precaution).

However, i'm now a bit concerned about the "terminal" element being discussed here and wonder if there would be any repercussions from having the PIP (special rules) benefit, where to secure this benefit involves the GP completing a DS1500 form which basically says the condition may be life limiting.  I'm not sure if this could be a "get out" for Euro Tunnel.

Any thoughts from anyone on this ?

Thanks

W

[Bevlaar]

Hi. Yes I also rung Eurotunnel travel insurance yesterday to get a quote for 2 weeks to greece from next monday.  I declared secondary bc..dx 5 wks ago. He apologetically asked if my onc considers it terminal to which i replied no.  He stated the same as olives has said below. I said that my Onc had given me a letter to say I was fit to travel but they said they didn't need that unless I was making a claim.

He then gave me a quote for annual European insurance for me and hubby for £71.50!!  This covers me for the secondary bc for all medical expenses up to £10m!

Feel better knowing ive got the necessary cover.

Bev xxx

[Olives]

Hi. Just wanted to say thanks to all who recommended Eurotunnel. Called today and got an annual policy for all family for £129 to cover worldwide travel. This even covers me for secondary mets as long as Dr or Onc confirms that at time of taking out policy or booking hol I was not terminal, was not travelling to get medical treatment abroad, had stable condition and was fit enough to travel. Compared to the loads of other sites I have trawled this is fantastic both in terms of price and policy working re pre existing conditions. Well chuffed. Has anyone ever had to make a claim from them and if so were they ok? Olives

[Lynnq]

Hi Nicky  I have had a very similar experience to yours.  After being told at the end of last year that they would not cover me as I had zometa infusions and that was 'ongoing treatment' I gave up.

 Then I read somewhere on these forums that someone had been told that the company had had a meeting in January and zometa was now considered a 'medication' and they would give cover.  (Can't find the post now which just shows how Helen's request for more headings under secondary breast cancer would be an advantage)

Anyway I rang last week and asked for cover told the lady that I had secondary breast cancer and zometa infusions every 4 weeks.  I said that we wanted to go to USA and she said that I would need an annual policy for that and to cover me and husband would cost £112.00.

She asked the usual questions and when we got to the terminal illness question I told her that I had asked my consultant and that he had said that in his opinion 'terminal' meant within the last 3 or 4 months of life. No more treatments available etc. and that I was nowhere near that stage and he thought I was fit to go.  He also sent out the usual post-consultation letter to GP and copied to me in which he put....'tumour markers falling and recent scan shows disease is stable'...

She said that was fine so I then asked HER to define that THEY meant by terminal, she said 'that is for the doctor  to decide'

I also mentioned that I'd been concerned about zometa infusions may be a problem - she said that new rules had been brought in recently about this.  So I went ahead and bought the policy.

Saw my GP who made the necessary notes on my (and my husband's) medical records....and we're having a week in Spain in three weeks time.  GP gave me a course of anti-biotics to take with me in case of scratch, insect bite etc to right arm (no lymph nodes).

 I mentioned USA to him and he said shouldn't be a problem....so long as I took normal long-haul precautions...... 

like you I would hate to put it to the test but feel better with this. 

[2catlady]

Oh wow! Nicky ,that sounds great. Thank you for the information .Helen xxxxxx

[nicky08]

Just a quick up date about Eurotunnel insurance.

I took out a poilcy before a trip in March and was offered an annual poilicy (Worldwide!) for under £50!  It does only cover me at the moment  but I may add OH so that in the event of cancellation we would get a full refund rather than presumably only my expenses.  

I took this out as additional cover to a general (non pre-existing conditions) policy that OH and I have through our bank account as well as taking the EHIC card with me.  I wasn't sure if secondary BC would actually be covered even though the policy wording implies it is.  I therefore rang Eurotunnel yesterday to clarify. I told the advisor I had breast cancer that had spread beyond the breast  and also said 'it is secondary breast cancer' and asked if the pre existing conditions clause would still cover me.  He said as long as the disease is stable, that my doctors have said I am fit to travel and I am not going abroad for treatment then I am covered.  He also said that secondary breast cancer is not seen as a terminal prognosis and they deem being 'terminal' as only having 'months to live'.  Well, blow me down with a feather  I have literally spent hundreds of pounds over the past 6 years since having a secondary diagnosis on travel insurance that I have never had to use, thank goodness one underwriting company seems to be taking a more informed decision about secondary BC. 

Also, unlike many (if not all) of the policies I've had over the years it does cover you for holidays in the UK as long as they are over 3 days.

Hope this helps and if anyone has any comments please let me (and us) know - I'm just hoping that the advisor was correct as I'd hate to put it to the test in any case.

Nicky x

[2catlady]

Hi,Nicky,thanks for that ,that's very interesting . Yes, I tried them last year and said no to me as well. I might give them a try again. But I find it's the USA that they don't like to insure for as it costs them millions for a claim. They may be more inclined to cover other places.
Huge to you all xxxx

[nicky08]

Hi
I just wanted to add that I have taken my own advice and actually read the policy documents ;-) The new wording, as issued in Jan 2014 I must say is completely different from the older policy and definitely doesn't mention anything at all about hospital treatment! How unusual is that, that it seems less restrictive rather than more, which is the case with some of the other companies I've spoken with! Therefore I may well be checking this policy out again for myself. The only reason I had raised my concerns is that someone recently has said they had been told by Eurotunnel that they definitely weren't covered for secondaries, but maybe this was pre Jan? Worth a shot anyway.
Nicky x

[Lynnq]

Hi Nicky and vercors. This is something that I asked about for my zometa infusion, which is IV and done in hospital....She put me on hold for a while and consulted someone. I was told that they now look upon this as 'medication' and not 'treatment'. Someone on one of these forums said that they'd had a meeting about these definitions in january

[vercors]

Thanks Nicky,
I was not asked about hospital treatment. And fortunately neither my herceptin, nor my Zoladex are administered in hospital. I get healthcare at home for my herceptin. :-)
Still I will read the fine prints again. Xxx

[nicky08]

Hi
I think the Eurotunnel insurance policy does sound like it is exactly what we need but be careful of the policy wording. I looked into this last year when a lot of secondary ladies had mentioned taking the policy out. One of the clauses does mention whether you are having any hospital treatment and I think any of us having Herceptin or even Denosumab could fall under this clause. The policy wording is available to download from their website so it may be worth checking this out first (it could have changed since then so I'm not sure) and then getting them to confirm whether you are covered or not. Sorry to sound a spoilsport but I'd hate anyone to have to make a claim and them to throw it out.
Nicky x

[Lynnq]

I was offered cover by Eurotunnel a couple of weeks ago but when I told her I had secondary breast cancer, she asked if it was considered a terminal illness and when i said 'yes it can be' she said that they could not cover me. I will phone back tomorrow and do as you have done.....i will put the ball in their court. I have never been given a prognosis, just been told 'no cure, but we can treat'. and when i spoke to my ONC last week he said he thought i was fit to go..........

[elliedog]

Thanks for that info vercors. Feeling well but finding it hard to get insurance which is affordable. Will definately try Eurotunnel.x

[vercors]

Eurotunnel just renewed my yearly, family, worldwide over for £129.00. When asked whether I was given a terminal diagnosis, I asked her clarify and it was just if I was given a number of months to live, as I wasn't, they insured me. The lady on the phone, apologise for those question. Really happy with them. 

[Tulip3]

Hi

 I have breast cancer and secondary widespread bone mets. We went to New Zealand last November & had real problems finding anyone to insure me. After trying about 10 'specialist' companies, I rang All Clear who were willing to cover me. We have also just booked to go to Italy and again got insurance through them.

It isn't cheap, but at least I feel safe, should anything go wrong while I'm away.

Their phone number is: 0845 250 5313

It's worth giving them a ring.

Hope you get sorted and have a great holiday.

Tulip

[2catlady]

Hi,Nicky,that's what my hubby said put a large excess on. It is such a shame they don't understand. I spent so much time in floods of tears on the phone telling them about my condition only to be told they won't insure . One awful person said oh you are terminal so we can't insure you. I said I'm not dying in the next six months and she said you are still terminal ( more tears) & that was from a cancer insurer !!!
So I ended up going to USA and not having my cancer insured .
My onc also said if it says in the small print we won't insure with a terminal illness ,they WILL use this to squirm out of paying and most of his patients go without insurance if stable and he says they are okay to travel.
Huge to you all,Helen xxxxx

[nicky08]

Oooh, do not even get me started on the subject of travel insurance and the questions you are asked! Unfortunately secondary BC does not seem to be understood by the underwriters and therefore the screening questions you are asked are not very specific. Only last week I asked for a quote from my bank, who will insure me for all other non-existing conditions. One question was 'How often have you seen a doctor/consultant about your condition in the past 12 months?' My answer was that I see him every 3 weeks but that is only to dispense my prescription (in this case Xeloda), so, it seems they do not understand a lot of the treatments us secondary ladies have and therefore the questions are not appropriate, grrrrr. With regards to 'terminal' I would honestly say that my condition has never been described as terminal, only incurable, and until I am told there is absolutely nothing that can be done to prevent my death from breast cancer I will assume that I am not terminal. With so many recent developments with secondary BC treatments who knows what we will die of, maybe not BC at all.
Going back to the whole travel insurance question I have paid out many hundreds, if not a couple of thousand, pounds worth of insurance cover over the past 6 years of having secondary BC, but have so far never made a single claim. What would be a fairer system would be to have a note from your oncologist that you are a well enough to travel and that a larger excess was charged if a claim had to be made. I'm sure that way we would not be penalised as we are as we would not chose to travel if ill and we would be prepared to pay this amount is needed rather than the extortionate amounts they currently charge (btw £1600 for two weeks last year to USA!)
Nicky x

[pam01]

Hi....I know it is difficult to talk to anyone sensible in these non specialist companies...but if you can get to speak to medical underwriter how about putting ball back in their court and asking them to define terminal....perhaps also telling them your oncs comments.xx

[Lynnq]

I recently tried to get travel insurance and i was given a quote (eurotunnel) when the policy arrived I read it from cover to cover. There was a section which said

"We will not cover you for insurance if you:-

A) -are not resident in the UK or have lived abroad for more than 6 months in the last 2 years.

B) -are going abroad for medical treatment

Or (C) HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH A TERMINAL ILLNESS...

I had my quarterly appointment with the ONC a couple of days later (last Thursday) so I asked him for advice.

He said that since I have had good scan results and have been stable for almost a year he didn't think I would have any problems. He also said that he thought that in his opinion 'terminal' meant being within the last few months of life......which ne certainly doesn't think I am. He asked me if I had informed them of my mets and I had so he said that should be enough because they know what they are covering.......

However he then went on to say that because Metastatic/secondary cancer had often been referred to as 'terminal breast cancer' this may be something that insurance companies could use to -"squirm their way out of paying"- (his words)

I have a week left to cancel the policy under the 14 day cooling off period and don't know what to do. I know that if I ring the insurers to ask them it will be someone who doesn't really know........they will ask their manager and that I will be given a "one answer fits all" reply.

I am tempted to just cancel the policy and go without insurance but we want to go to the USA so am a bit more cautious.

I also received a quote from another company where they covered me apart from my pre-existing conditions. I then mentioned the other policy and the clause about terminal illness. She then said -"oh if you had a terminal illness we wouldn't cover you at all...for anything! I said that I would get back to her. I just seem to be going round and round in circles.

[elliedog]

Love your rant. I'm in full agreement with you, these people need educating. It annoys me when I know I am probably fitter than the person on the other end of the phone whose trying to charge a fortune. Were discussing our holidays today with friends to go away in the summer to some where in Europe but I am tempted to go without the extra insurance. However I am not on chemo now and the onc will write me a letter to say I am fit to travel, maybe that will make a difference.xx

[fudgeincornwal]

Hi,

I'm not advising anyone to travel without insurance but......I went to France last year with just my European Health Card.   I'd rung around and the prices I was quoted were dreadful, especially as I was on Trial drugs at the time.  Infact one man, who should have known better as it was a specialised Cancer Insurance, couldn't believe I was so active and well!  Anyway we were staying with my sister -in-law,  I ended up having to visit her doctor and diagnosed with blood clots in both legs so wasn't alllowed to travel home for 10 days, had to inject blood thinners and visit a specialist etc.   I had to pay upfront and it came to just under £500, £200 less than my cheapest quote for 7 days!  I sent all the paper work to DWP on my return and within 6 weeks I had the full amount back.  Obviously I didn't have to pay for accomodation, and came home in the car/ferry as arranged altho did have to pay £25 cancellation etc.   I'd really like to travel further afield etc.  Why should we have to pay so much? I wouldn't mind even having an actual medical.  When I was searching I just got fed up of repeating myself and then getting a silence and then 'oh I'll just ask my supervisor' I knew what the reply would be!  Or asked questions like 'How far can you walk by yourself'?

My answer 'Well I'm just back from walking the dog for 2 miles, and then after lunch I'm walking to the village 3/4mile away and back and I may go for a bike ride later.  Silence!  Good God these people/firms need to be re-educated! Rant over!!   I do think it also depends on what treatment you are on and whether it's chemo etc.  My Onc was willing to write a letter etc. if needed.

I know of a few people with cancer that have gone on cruises they must have got insurance, maybe worth asking the shipping company?

xx

[nicky08]

Hi
There was a very long thread on here some time back listing some insurance companies but it could be out of date now as they do seem to have clamped down on us unfortunate people with secondary BC. In the past I have been able to get reasonable insurance for everywhere including USA but it's either far too expensive now or many companies won't cover me for that far afield. There was an article in last weeks Sunday Telegraph listing companies that insure for primary BC (as that was the question that had been asked) but didn't say specifically for secondaries which are a totally different ball game. It may be worth checking their website to see if the details are on there, as a few of the names I hadn't heard of.
Nicky x

[helen44]

Hi

Try MIA - they were really friendly, quoted me £139 for a single trip to France, Holland & Belgium which I didn't think was too bad having been quoted £480 by a couple of companies & some wouldn't touch me at all - I have bone mets.

Good luck & enjoy your holiday.

Helen x

[dgardens]

I used Eurotunnel travel insurance when I went to Cyprus last year,and Mia when I went away the year before xx

[pam01]

Try MIAonline for France. (ring them but get details online). Unfortunately they wont cover cruises. Try insurancewith for the cruise. They covered me in Nov and I have bone mets and am on capecitabine at a price!(>£500) but may be less if you are not on chemo. Pam

[Tournesol]

Hi Rosieamber and welcome to the forums,

I have bone secondaries too and for travel in Europe I have found MIA Online generally good and as reasonably priced as it gets for those of us with secondaries. They may not cover a cruise though but it's worth asking. The other company I've used are Insurance With, but I haven't used them for a couple of years.

Good luck with getting your insurance sorted and hope you have a great time on your trips.

Tournesol

[Lucy_BCC]

Hi Rosieamber, welcome to the BCC forums

Here's a couple of links to the BCC secondary holiday insurance Information which may help:

http://www.breastcancercare.org.uk/breast-cancer-information/impact-breast-cancer/finances-practical...

http://www.breastcancercare.org.uk/breast-cancer-information/impact-breast-cancer/finances-practical...

BCC have further support ideas which you may also be interested in and you can read about these here:

https://www.breastcancercare.org.uk/secondaries

Best wishes
Lucy BCC

[Rosieamber]

Hi everyone,

This is my first time on a forum. I was diagnosed with secondary breast cancer with metastasis in 6th vertebrae and collar bone in July last year.  I am doing really well with pain under control and leading life as normal as I can! I am so inspired by the stories I have read on these sites.

I am planning 2 holidays this early summer, one a cruise to Norway with my hubby and another a week in France with my family.  I am trying to find travel insurance just for peace of mind but am finding that peace of mind comes at a price, and some companies won't cover me.

Does anyone have any suggested insurance companies/brokers they have used that have been helpful?

Thanks so much and stay well,