Thank you Diana. What a good memory you have. Cant believe its number two already. Have been feeling so well so am gutted that im going to feel rough again from thurs. So sorry you have felt so ill. It really isnt nice is it. Hope you feel better from now.
Love to all
Have not been on line much lately due to feeling pretty rotten.
Had first FEC on the 14th- breezed through and was really good until Monday afternoon (day 4) then crashed.
Felt “ill” is the only way to describe it,no nausea or vomiting though no sore mouth or anything just the bad taste. Have been drinking gallons of fizzy water etc. and I was suffering from anorexia (in the true medical sense)and tired +++
That lasted until the following Monday- ie yesterday. I had to force myself to eat and that is SO unlike me, I have masses of weight to lose and I have lost 3 kg without even trying. Must have given me the “skinny chemo” Sophie.
Today I almost feel normal again. I went to the hospital to pick up my wig then on to the hairdresser to have it trimmed. The general consensus, hospital hairdresser, my own hairdresser, my daughter, my neighbour and myself is that the lighter colour suits me better than my own (out of a bottle) hair colour. I chose the lighter colour so I wouldn’t get such a shock when my own hair grows back grey. If good can come out of BC that’s one of them for me- I’d never have known if I hadn’t had a wig. My scalp has felt pretty strange so I’m thinking it wont be long before I start finding hair on the pillow. I’ve already been treated to a free Brazilian though!
Cheryl –good luck with FEC 2 tomorrow
Good luck Jan and Deb with FEC 2 on Thursday and Sophie and Maria with your FEC’s 3 & 2 on Friday
Den42 I hope you start to feel better soon. You have my greatest admiration I don’t know how you cope with two little ones as well ((((((xxx)))))
Hope Everyone has a good rest of the week and week end.
Although I said that I had only had mild queasiness with FEC1, the Onc has changed the dose and timing of one of the steroids. That's assuming the blood tests are OK, since they weren't ready by the time I left. She wasn't worried by the red face I reported, since there was no swelling with it, but I might mention it to the chemo nurses as well. She was pleased to hear about the PICC line.
Amazing! I was actually out of the building in about an hour, and that included a short chat with someone I know who was going through as a lay chaplain.
Hope you feel better soon, Den, I hope it's just tiredness, but check your temperature if you feel ill.
Best wishes to all,
You're right about the chemo nurses Sophie. They actually smile when they see the picc. The one I had wasn't very smiley afterwards, in fact my OH said she made him feel miserable. The others were foreign and two were speaking to each other in their own language. I'm just being negative today. Keep feeling lumps and bumps thinking what if..
To be truthful I couldn't cope with any more bad news just yet so better keep on with the job in hand. Hope everyone is having a good day xx
Thanks for the advise, it's interesting how it differs so much across the health authorities.
I had to go in today to have my bloods checked (due to mouth ulcer) and asked the question about PICC lines whilst there. They don't use the PICC but another type (annoyingly can't remember the name. The nurse said they only give it to people with poor veins.
Mmm, when i go in to see onc for FEC2 on monday i will ask what constitues 'poor veins' and if they think i have them. If not now do they wait until I've got them before doing something to avoid them?
I have a notepad that i fill with questions when away from the hospital. I also check the abbreviations that appear on letters. Be warned though: my 'status' is 0 - on some scales this means dead! which i'm not, unless someone's forgotten to tell me that!
Den, just take it as easy as possible - could well just be a 'down' day, but judging by the night you had, well, I think you're entitled to feel cr*p today!!
Going back to PICC, I do know some people have said that having a line permanently in place would make them more conscious all the time of having bc, and that is a fair comment. However, for me I kind of felt the bald head was a somewhat bigger reminder!!! Again, there's no right or wrong decision here, but I do feel we should all be given all the information required to make an informed decision - and I hate to hear of women who either aren't given the info at all, or are railroaded into a decision that might not be best for them, but more convenient for their docs/nurses. For some it might be being pushed into having a central line when they didn't really require it - because there is no question that the chemo nurses' faces light up when they spot mine.. so much easier for bloods and administering drugs.. but it won't be for everyone.
It's the same with all aspects of treatment - we should be given all the info we need to be informed - from path reports to stats to literature on side effects and different drug regimes.. yet few of us are even offered the information until we push. We are all adults, all responsible women, and I do wish that the bureaucracy surrounding hospitals would treat us as adults unless we ask otherwise...
Sophie xxx (also known as militant moo moo madam)
Hi Den. Hope your son has recovered. Clearing up after that isn't good when you are feeling normal! I still felt a bit off day 13/14 and resorted to sickness medication. I put it down to the fact I had had anti biotics in hospital and that had upset my tum. I think with what our bodies are going through it's likely that we get the odd se's even on our good weeks. Hope it's not the bug anyway. Sounds like you have been cautious and armed with the dettol spray. (I am hating the smell of that.) Iam now paranoid about bugs since going to hosptal and have been spraying door handles etc.O H is getting worried that I might spray him when he comes through the door.
Hi Den, I've certainly been up and down. Tiredness could easily do it, and perhaps your red blood cells haven't quite recovered yet. I've found I need to rest a little longer than normal for even mild exertion.
Hi again. I am wondering if I have a bug as I just have't felt right since yesterday. I was feeling so good up until then. Is it normal to have good and bad days?
I am on day 15. I don't think have my son's bug he was very poorly last night and I am not like that. I could just be very tired as my daughter is teething badly as well. Honestly, there is just not time for me to be I'll it is so inconvenient!
Den42, I do hope your son's bug clears up soon.
I asked for a PICC from the start, and they were prepared to put one in. When the Chemo nurse, very experienced with cr*ppy veins, looked at my arm she said I had three good veins they could use, and to go with them and get the PICC later if I needed to.
First Fec she found vein with no problem first time, it didn't even hurt, and so far no SEs at the site, so hoping to keep going without a line, fingers crossed.
I think now that if I have one it's going to make me feel more like a Patient, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it!
I think 'what are the alternatives?' or 'are there any alternatives?' are reasonable questions.
It is also worth remembering that we have to give consent to treatment, and every treatment has advantages and disadvantages. If we aren't sure or are worried about disadvantages, we have a right to ask why it is being recommended. The Onc I last saw explained the difference chemo would make--nearly 10% gor me--before asking me if I agreed and was ready to sign the consent form.
The PICC and Hickman lines are mentioned in the literature I was given, but were only recommended for me when I got as far as the chemo nurses, and they looked at my arm before recommending a PICC.
I asked if it was really necessary; in the end 3 experienced chemo nurses gave the same advice so it seemed unwise to ignore them.
My next Onc appointment is this morning, so I've written down the SEs I experienced with FEC1, mild as they were, and a question or two.
I have just re-read stay calm and carry on's message again and it has emphasised to me how the treatment differs between us all. Whilst I appreciate that we are all individual cases and require individual treatment plans, surely when it comes to administering chemo we should have all been given the information for all options along with recommendations on the most appropriate method for our own case.
I have learnt an awful lot from this thread and from other parts of the site. But it is a pretty poor that we have to 'network' to get the the important medical information.
From now on I am going to have a few stock questions for my onc such as 'what are the alternatives'. I would like to be really cheeky and take my ipad in with me and look up whatever the topic is in front of him.
Sorry for my moan but it does annoy me when people are not given a choice especially on something pretty basic.
Ps if anyone wonders why I am awake at such an ungodly hour, my son has a sickness bug and whilst my oh has been great at comforting my son all night (he is sleeping in the room with him) it is still me who has to go in with the dettol spray and provide clean towels and bedding!
Good point Sophie about the port. I wasn't given a choice and it was pretty uncomfortable for 3 to 4 days after. I am not having herceptin so just the 6 Feds then radio therapy (which I don't need a port for). It was a lot of disruption for 6 Fecs in hind sight. The only advantage though is that it scores pretty highly on the hygiene scale so less risk of infection from what I understand. So from that angle I would have still gone with it.
I suppose my advice to others considering the options would be to get the pros and cons of each from your onc (and others) before making a decision. I didn't get that so didn't know there were alternatives. It was in the early days of my diagnosis when everything was just happening to me. Where as now I feel I have a bit more knowledge and confidence about asking more questions and being more assertive.
Congrats on your wig Cheryl i bet you will look fab in it. I haven"t gone down that route yet.... I think i said it to you before that i am still in denial re it falling out!!
I have got myself a few scarves.... just in case!!!
I've seen a couple of the ports in situ on other women on this site (clumsy sentence, sorry, wrist slap from english teacher!) - and I would think they would be ace for anyone who is going on to have Herceptin - but more of a major insertion job than a PICC if only ('only', get me!) having six lots of chemo. If I'd been HER+ tho, a port would have been my choice.
Hi everyone, I've got my wig now. Let's just say that it matches my hair colour about 10-15 years ago, when I had highlights out of a bottle, rather than nature's own.
The very nice fitter asked when my own had started to fall out, and told me it is likely to take a couple of weeks. She suggested that once it becomes too thin or patchy I might want to shave the rest, since as long as you have even a little hair, a wig tends to slide a bit. Of course I could wear hats and scarves until it's all gone as well. She trimmed the fringe to eyebrow length to provide some camouflage there. This brand can be adjusted to fit a little more tightly if the elastic starts to stretch.
I'm leaving it in the box for a while, however.
Hi there. On the point of picc lines, I have had a port catheter inserted under the skin below the collar bone. I was uncomfortable for about 3 days afterwards but was then ok. I had a local anaesthetic plus a mildnsedative. It was great for administering chemo and taking bloods. I didn't feel a thing and could just get on with eating (as eating like a horse at the moment), reading etc. The only thing i don't like is that it looks horrible as it protrudes from under the skin so I keep a plaster over it.
I am on day 14 and still have my hair so am hoping the cold cap has worked. It has taken until day 8 to feel properly human, though managed small things prior to this. Had friends over on the weekend for curry take away which tasted delicious and I managed a glass of fizzy. Also made it out for lunch with 2 girl friends and again really enjoyed my food.
Well done Jane for getting through your 1st fec. I have enjoyed the chat about singing, it's nice to read about something other than this very inconvenient illness. I look forward to the birth of a bc choir from this thread. I would offer to join but even my 5 year old who loves me dearly tells me to stop when I start singing in the car.
Take care everyone and good luck to all those with treatment this week.
I asked for a line as soon as I heard chemo mentioned! I am a nurse and know I have "shy" veins, the only thing that frightened me at the beginning was the thought of many goes to get blood or canulae each time. The oncologist arranged for me to have a hickman pre chemo, I could care for it myself as I already have the skills but elected to see the district nurse just for the weekly human contact. I can shower with the line in and have managed the dressing changes as necessary, can't go swimming or soak in a bath but that's not much of a downside for me!
Had my 2 nd FEC thurs, as had a line, all things speeded up was in and out in 75mins, a benefit I thought.
You can always ask them if they think your veins will stand the course, SCACO.
Thanks for the sleeve suggestion, Sophie and Ness. That sounds like a sensible precaution.
Hi, I had a PIKK line put in early Dec just before Fec, I personally am very pleased I had it put in, its easier to have the chemo and have blood tests done. My husband cleans it once a week for me too. It did ache for the first 2 weeks and you do have to be careful keeping it dry. I bought one of those Limbo plastic sleeves for when I have a shower/bath and think its definately worth the money, £12 i think it was. The nurse and a friend of mine who is a chemo nurse both recommended having the pikk line so that was good enough for me to have one. good luck with whatever you decide on Ness xxxx
I'm due to have FEC2 next monday and had the 1st one just put in intravenously, with the nurse using syringes. i had a little vein pain in the arm they put it in last week, but not too much. reading about the PICC line makes me wonder if i should ask for it BEFORE i get vein damage. No-one has suggested it or even mentioned it, i only know what i have read here.
any words of wisdom?
I'm sure I can stand 10 minutes of almost anything. Thanks!
Looking over the information they gave me, it says 'the nursing staff can teach you how' to care for it, so perhaps I can do it on my own. I'm right-handed and the PICC will be in my right arm, but I can do a fair number of things with my left hand.
I also have had general redness and irritation from sterile dressings.
At any rate, the sooner it's over the better.
Thanks again, Sophie.
Cheryl, it took maybe half an hour, but most of that was them preparing to insert it, scrubbing up etc etc - the line itself was done within ten minutes. It was all very relaxed, I had to put a gown on my top half, but was allowed to keep my jeans and boots on (!), though I do know other people have had to strip down to knickers and a gown, which seems a bit overkill... ask if you can keep your bottom half dressed!
The dressings can be a pain - I still haven't found one that really suits my skin - but I did find the initial absorbent dressings were the worst - they totally bonded with the skin on the inside of my arm, and I ended up having to cover a raw strip with clingfilm before re-dressing. I've got C-view dressings on at the mo, which still make my skin a little red, but don't seem to 'bond' in the same way - and there are still dressings I haven't tried, so will keep on plugging away at it until I find one that works better! I've never had a problem with plasters, or the blue work plasters, but these sterile dressings don't like me! The big ones I had after mx also caused a red reaction, but the itch I can deal with, just don't peel my skin off too, please!!!!
If your OH isn't up to job of flushing it, then generally either the district nurse will come out (daily at first to change dressing), then once a week to flush the line through - or you might be asked to go up to chemo ward to have it done. Doesn't take long, and is really very straightforward. Despite my friday night panic!!
Hopefully you won't have much hanging around before insertion - I had to be there for half eight, appointment was at nine, and because I was first one there I didn't have to hang about at all - fastest hospital appointment EVER!!
I think they would have put the PICC in before the first treatment, but with all the problems caused by snow and the holidays, the chemo nurse said at the assessment that they would start me without. The nurse who administered FEC1 also said I needed a PICC before going further, and called a senior colleague to double check and give me an appointment.
I have trouble with adhesives, which I have mentioned and will mention again. After a while, any adhesive will irritate my skin. Nothing has been said so far about things like flushing--I can't see my OH managing to do this. We'll have to see on Thursday.
How long did it take to insert, by the way? I have an early appointment, and I hope there won't be a long wait beforehand.
My hair is still falling out, especially when I wash it, but it isn't obvious yet to look at.
Oops, pressed wrong button before I'd finished!
I spoke to the nurse about it at my pre-chemo appointment, and she also had a look at my arm, and said she'd be happier if I had a PICC, as I don't have particularly prominent veins - and those that are near the surface tend to duck for cover at the sight of a white coat.
My PICC was put in on the same day I started chemo, PICC went in at 9am, chemo began at 10.30am. It was straightforward and painless - and apart from itching a bit since, the PICC itself has been fine. The only problems I've had have been the adhesive dressings - I seem to react to all of them, so removing them is not always pleasant, to say the least! My OH was shown how to flush it and clean it, so I don't even have to wait for district nurse each week.
The only issue I had, has proved to be a non-issue.. really. My OH flushes it on a Friday, and this friday we forgot until the evening. Well, you're supposed to draw off about 5ml of blood through the PICC before flushing it through with saline, and we've never had a problem doing that - but this Friday we couldn't get any blood out at all, so I panicked, thinking there might be a clot or something, and rang the chemo ward. They told me to pop on over, so I drove up Friday night about 9ish, and they had a look. Fluids would go in quite easily, but no blood out, and apparently this is very common - if the line moves inside the vein, the open end can rest against the vein wall, so when you try to draw anything out, it seals itself against the wall, but when you try to put fluid in, that's fine. So, I may not be able to have bloods taken from it, unless it moves again, but chemo will be fine.
Just thought I'd share that in case anyone else came up against the same thing. Also, I was told that if there were a clot at any point, they can inject a clot busting drug, so line would not have to be removed for that. The only time a PICC has to come out is if there is an infection in it, or if it falls out accidentally.. which is not too likely!
So, in my experience, anyone thinking of having a PICC should go for it. It is a bit of a pain when showering - but I've bought a waterproof cover called a limbo sleeve, which makes life much easier.
Kaz, I asked for a PICC line to be put in before I started chemo. I'm not the least worried about needles for blood samples etc, but I do detest canulas, so that was part of my reason. Also, I too had anc, so can only use right arm for any future blood tests etc, and I wanted to take care of the veins in that arm. The E in FEC can really screw around with your veins - it can cause hardening etc, and a lot of people find that they end up with damaged veins, or are very limited in the veins that can be used to give blood - and I just felt I would rather avoid that situation altogether.
Thanks Cheryl i will definitely mention it when i go for my next fec...... Oh and just for the record i am such a baby with injections, I started crying when they where about to put the cannula in. So you are not on your own
Sorry Kaz, I meant to say that Difflam is often prescribed; maybe you should report your mouth problems and ask if they can prescribe something so you don't have to shell out any more. At least ask about it at your next appointment on the principle of prevention being better than cure.
There are two reasons I'm getting the PICC line. First, I've had an axillary clearance, so they can only use one arm. Second, they say my veins don't look able to take the full course. I should say I've never had any problems with injections, blood samples or the like, but I am over 60 and maybe that makes a difference. The danger is damaged veins.
As I understand it, if anyone starts to get problems with their veins during treatment, one of these semi-permanent lines will be recommended.
I'm sure I'm just being squeamish about this, just as I was dreadfully anxious about the first FEC session, but the thought makes me cringe. A friend had a Hickman line if that's the right term, the one that's put in the chest when she had adult leukemia, and she has promised me that it's painless as well. Perhaps it's just that it seems more like being seriously ill, and that's not how I want to think of myself.
Anyhow, thanks for the kind thoughts, and I will report honestly on the experience.
My mouth is not sore just like you have all said rough patches, my mother in law got me some biodene toothpaste today and i have just ordered it in a mouthwash version to, so i am hoping it will get better once i start using them.
Cheryl no the hosp did not give me a supply of mouthwash, i have already spent a small fortune trying different mouthwashes!
Can i be rude and ask why you are having a picc line put in, sorry i just wondered if you had to ask for one or if they automatically give you one?? When i had my chemo there was a lady opposite me having one inserted and she honestly never even winced, she told me afterwards that she never felt a thing. I hope that will be the same for you on Thursday, i will be thinking of you
Kaz, me too, like Janipi says, rough dry patches on my gums. Sore lips. Loads of vaseline for those. Using Biotene toothpaste from Boots and Difflam mouthwash before bed.
Good luck with the PICC line on thursday Cheryl
Kazza My mouth feels like it has rough patches inside. It's not sore though. I've been using mouthwash twice a day. I know what you mean about the hair. I am feeling a bit lost without mine. Cheryl, I had a picc put in and was anxious before I went. I had to wait half an hour for the picc team and I was ready to head for the door. It was PAINLESS honestly. Not even sore afterwards. You get a local anaeths and the nurse chats to you and it's done in no time. I was so glad of it last weekend in hospital with bloods and fluids going in and out. I'm the biggest baby ever so it will be a breeze. x
My hair has always been baby fine, rather thin, and very straight, so in more than one way I don't have as much to lose as some of you. As for being strong, it may be different when I look in the mirror and a balding stranger looks back, and I will definitely want some virtual hand-holding, and maybe some physical hand-holding or a sedative on Thursday when I get the PICC line.
Is your mouth sore, or just dry? Did you get a supply of mouthwash?
Take care, Kaz.
Peachez you and me both.... scratch , scratch its funny really i dont know about you but i am denial really, My 13 year old keeps saying Dont worry mum i dont think you are going to loose your hair!!! Awww bless him. I hope he is correct :-0 OH why am i soooo bothered about loosing my hair?????
Cheryl hang in there you sound a lot stronger than me.
Oh does anybody have a really strange mouth like sandpaper???
I hadn't even thought of that as an SE! Maybe it's a good thing I'm so nearsighted I have to wear mine all the time.
I know some people prefer hats and scarves to wigs. Having short hair for a few weeks has reminded me why I let my hair grow out after keeping it short for about a year when I was 19 or 20.
I suppose a wig might have to start off tight, as you say like new shoes, so that it doesn't wind up too loose and slip.
We'll see. I've got some cheap cotton caps; not particularly attractive, but I can tie my existing scarves over them, and I've got hats to wear out of doors in the cold.
My scalp still feels itchy or prickly at times, but maybe it will be better after everything goes. I thought I would wash and moisturise it like my face then.
Good luck, I hope the discomfort doesn't last too long.
... day 10 and itchy, family laughed at me this morning - I tend to put my glasses on top of my head, and I'm worried they're going to just slide off when I'm bald!! Arrgh!
Sorry to hear about your friend Cheryl. I did get my wig yesterday and after a while 30 mins I got a headache and they are quite snug so I don't know how I'll get on with it. It might be like wearing in a new pair of shoes. My clipped hair is hurting my head so that doesn't help. I think it'll have to all go later! Like you said, what's a bit of baldness. It's makes us even more special lol x
Big wodge of hair in the shower this morning despite gentle washing and rinsing. At least there are no obvious bare patches yet. This is day 18 for me, so the shedding started yesterday, 17, and 18 is right on schedule according to some.
I'm going out tonight, so if there are bald patches I'll wear a scarf. I was supposed to choose the wig yesterday, but had to cancel. Sadly, this was due to the funeral of a fellow choir member who died of pancreatic cancer in her mid-50s. Pancreatic cancer is almost never diagnosed in time for successful treatment, unfortunately.
So what's a bit of baldness, anyhow?
Ah poor you Cheryl i am sure i wont be far behind you i cant stop scratching tonight 😞
How many days has it taken from your chemo date????
Sending you hugs
Be bald and proud!!!!!
I am definitely shedding hair. Nothing dramatic, but more hairs than usual are turning up on flat surfaces, and it's not the cat.
I already know the Fauré, but my OH loves music with really complex, not to say weird, harmonies and rhythms. It's a great distraction, though! (Kodaly wrote some real killers for a 4-part women's choir, did them at uni.)
I'm glad you're not having trouble with the SEs so far. I hope the legs stop aching.
Alto, I was probably in the RAH with you!! Just don't mention Taverner (ok it's great if the choir gets it RIGHT), or Poulenc !!!
Sooo very glad the SEs are being kind to you, long may it last Pxxxx
Well done with the singing Cheryl! I love singing the Fauré. I sang it in the Albert Hall years ago at a huge choir day, conducted by David Willcocks. We also sang it in church last year as a mini concert. It isn't too hard (relatively speaking - try Walton's Gloria - eek!) and I've found it's got some really memorable harmonies so you should be fine with it.
Last Easter we sang Allegri's Miserere on Good Friday and a couple of years before that we did Stainer's Crucifixion. Not bad for a village church choir of 24 on a good day, ranging in age from 7 to late 80s! DH is nothing if not adventurous!!!
A BCC singing group! We could accompany the Inbetweeners magic carpet picnics! We might have to co-opt a few men though.
So far no particular side effects from yesterday. I was very tired last night and I feel a little bit odd but nothing really specific and no nausea as yet. I've popped four different anti sickness pills this morning but I've been told I can knock off two of them if I'm feeling OK. Legs aching a bit but I was very tensed up yesterday so it's probably that.
So far so good (if that isn't tempting fate), but I know some people have said their SEs build up through the cycles, so we'll see.
Thanks for the suggestion. I've tried following a score along to Spotify for learning tricky notes in the past. It's Birmingham Cathedral (St Philips).
The sore throat pesisted a bit longer than usual.
have you tried Choraline rehearsal CDs? Maybe keep you in practice if you can't get to rehearsal so much... link below. If you want to order I'd recommend phoning, the ladies there are really great ; make sure you know which edition you want.
(the Faure is great isn't it?) Which Cathedral are you singing in?
Pat, well done for No2, sorry to hear you've been under the weather with it though, hope it sorts itself out quickly.
izziwhizzi, well done too,
Love and hugs to anyone else feeling ill or sleep deprived tonight!!
Hi all 2nd FEC today, just over an hour in the unit, hickman lines are ace! Was really really hungry lunchtime and early afternoon, then sick as a dog bummer. Feeling in betweeny now not good not bad. Had a smile at the hair stories, daughter of mine kept telling me off for rubbing my itchy hair as short hairs ping off and look like fleas apparently!
I managed to sing all the way through choir, hurray! with just a little soreness towards the end and I won't say I demonstrated the4 best breath control ever. How long I can continue is another matter, but I'd love to be part of a planned Fauré Requiem at the cathedral before Easter if it is possible. I'm hoping to go to enough rehearsals to learn notes and keep up, even if I have to drop out of concerts for a while.
My OH is also church choirmaster and second string organist, though our church choir is more of a 'who's here, how many parts is that?' kind of choir, and he directs the chamber choir that rehearsed tonight. We met when was on a teaching exchange to a community college and was asked to direct a choir for adults in the evening.
And where would a choir be without a strong 2nd soprano section, I'd like to know? Hmm....What about a BCC choir/folk group? With matching scarves on our bald/balding heads?
Hi Peachez, DH was a bell ringer too until he became the organist, now he needs to be in church playing when the bells are rung. We have a lovely old peal of 8 bells, the oldest dated 1682.
Definitely right on the commom locations! Luckily we hold our village fete in the grounds of a house that is next to the church. On the other side of the church is... you've guessed it.. a pub! Yippee!
Us 2nd altos have to stick together - we do create the best harmonies, after all.