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For those interested in research on diet and cancer

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Hi all
My eating has been very poor this year, due to being on 12 anti bio a day finished them 3rd week in jan, still dont feel the eurge to eat, one bowl of rice chrispies a day and plenty of water. also iam in middle of RT. before this ate a healthy diet everything fresh, even before BC. Any help out there to get my eating back on track,

yvonne xx

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

lemongrove, I have to differ in opinion about your thoughts on the immune system. I have read and believe that the immune system is fighting off cancer cells continously and it is only when the immune system is not robust enough, then cancer can take over.
Boosting the immune system through food and supplements is essential. I find your comments about meditation interesting, as it is well known that meditation and visualisation help boost the immune system and this has been used for centuries, it's not a new faddy idea.
The professor that you quote seems to me to have the usual medical model approach about dismissing the natural healing the body can and does do in the right cicumstances.

DaisyGirl
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Hi Everyone

I have drunk roobois for years, didn't know about the phyto oestrogens but not too concerned. I drink the earl Grey one and also jasmine green tea.

This tea is widely drunk in South Africa, does anyone have any stats on bc out there?

Haven't had a "proper" cup of tea with milk in it for years, last time I did it tasted horrible!

Daisy xx

elinda45
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

HI all

Lemongrove - it was also my understanding that the hormones were in the fat but I'm not sure about whether they all are or whether you get some in the rest of the milk too.

Iswhiz - would be grateful to hear the reasoning behind butter.

Redbush tea - you could look at the Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Centre site. I can't put a direct link up but if you look under R you'll find it there.
It suggests an oestrogenic effect which looking down at the research heading cited is to do with phyto oestrogens. As you're probably aware there's huge debate about those.
There doesn't appear to be much research out there on this type of tea and breast cancer.

Elinda x

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

since diagnosis I gave up tea/coffee and drink green or redbush ( roobois).
It doesn't have caffeine and I like the fact can drink with or without milk so tastes like tea I used to have.
I have oat or rice milk as don't eat dairy but tastes good. I try to avoid white and green in pm due to caffeine.

I am finding i am introducing protein into diet again as hard to get weight on and keep on without.
I ate venison for first time as v good for iron and very lean and was good. Made a change from chicken.
Jo x

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Elinda

She didn't say anymore about the hormones in fat, just said that butter was better than speads. I'll ask next time I see her. She did say for me that avoiding dairy was good idea as my cancer seems to be a demon for oestrogen! It's all so confusing! I figure maybe find something else altoghter to spread on bread/toast or just not use anything!

I have never been a hot drink drinker but a few years ago started drinking herbal for the health benefits and then moved to green tea after reading anti cancer. I'm still not really a fan of hot drinks but it's better than just water all the time (used to drink lots of cordials but don't now) but very much see it all as medicine rather than pleasure. So was wondering if Roobios would be a good thing to add in as they say it has as many if not more polyphenols and antioxidents than green and also amazing anti inflamatory benefits. It's also supposed to help insomnia instead of causing it as with green (and white which also has caffine). I was wondering if there was any research around about it?

Lemongrove
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Re: hormones in butter. I agree with Elinda on this one. My understanding is that hormones are mainly located within dairy fat.
Actually, I was looking at some research carried out by a Harvard Professor, into the alleged link between dairy intake and BC, and although this was inconclusive, she said that for those who want to avoid hormones in milk they should drink skimmed, which has virtually no hormones. This suggests to me that the hormones must be in the fat (please correct me if I'm wrong).
Iswhiz, the the Fulham Centre are right that Penny Brohn, advocate using butter, rather than spread (I went there last year and they were definitely recommending that then). But that doesn't surprise me, because in my opinion most of what they advocate is highly questionable - even the ideas that underpin their approach. For example, the reason they focus so much on diet and psychological issues is that they believe cancer is caused by a failure of the immune system. The problem with this is, as my Professor say's the immune system is not implicated in Breast Cancer. So you can have the strongest immune system in the world and it won't protect you from BC, because the immune system simply doesn't recognise cancer cells, and in any case, cancer manipulates the immune system (which is what makes it so deadly).
I also think their suggestion that cancer cells can be destroyed by visualisation is pure woo.

elinda45
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Hi there,

I'm a bit confused about the butter thing as hormones are fat soluble so can't possibly see how they wouldn't be in there. That's not to say that a little butter is a problem but I can't understand the reasoning on that - did she say anymore?

White tea may be even better than green tea but I don't know about it's caffeine content, might be worth checking that. Have you tried something like cinammon herbal tea? I'm not mad on herbals but that one is really nice.

take care, elinda x

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

I went to the Haven in Fulham before Christmas and was told they are adopting the Bristol diet approach and the lady has just come from the PBC. I was told that butter is fine as its pure fat so doesn't have any of the hormones in it and as its natural it's better than any other options (spreads etc). And yes some protein with every meal (egg at breakfast, fish and chicken at lunch/dinner)

I have a question though, I have lots of green tea after reading Anti Cancer and I really believe it helps me but I am very sensitive to caffeine so while in the working week it's great I can't drink it after 3pm and choose not to have caffeine at weekends. I'd rather not have decaf green tea as I think that is messing with the product too much, so have been looking into rooibos tea. Has anyone seen if this is a good alternative and have all the cancer fighting stuff of green tea?

elinda45
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Dear all

Very interesting information.

Lemongrove - I didn't know much about metabolic syndrome so I'm attaching a link to BBC health which gives a brief outline:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/physical_health/conditions/metabolicsyndrome1.shtml

This would certainly seem to explain why they are looking at metformin and makes a strong case for controlling blood sugar levels, weight, cholesterol etc.

Re Penny Brohn centre - it does appear that they've changed their advice and I'm also attaching a link to that:
http://www.pennybrohncancercare.org/upload/docs/932/pb_eating__downloadable_072010.pdf

What they are recommending is really quite stringent. For example, they suggest that we aim for 8 - 10 portions of veg and fruit per day, with two thirds being veg.

They do have a section on dairy and they state that:

'At this time there is very little research examining the effects of dairy products on the health of cancer survivors'

That is my concern with dairy products. However, I have decided to have a very small amount of dairy in my diet now - probably once a month on average and that's usually a bit of good quality cheese.

My reasoning is that this is nothing like the vast amounts of milk, butter, cheese, yoghurt, cottage cheese etc that I was consuming prior to diagnosis. Until further research comes out to make this clearer (and the same goes for soy) I've decided to keep very limited.

I do see that they are not suggesting limiting whole grains. I suppose that if you are eating 8 - 10 portions of veg/fruit and protein then consuming huge amounts of whole grains would be difficult. Again though, in light of this metabolic syndrome and issues with glycaemic and insulin responses, I've decided to keep my grains limited.
This does seem from the new research to be so important.

Re the China Study diet, the biggest problem with that book is that it doesn't actually detail what the people in the study actually ate! I'd love to know the detail.

Pleasant1 - I think it's a case of doing whatever works for you within reason. With somelike a healing cancer CD if it's just images it's not likely to do you any harm is it? I'm much more wary of anything suggesting a cure or selling some supplement that has no evidence base.
Meditation is generally thought to be helpful with a number of things.

I was completely unaware that Jane Plant was linked to PB. I wonder what in their advice she takes such issue with - possibly their advice on soya.

take care all, Elinda x

Pleasant1
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Just bobbing up on here as seen the title at the top of the forum and I already imagine I eat real healthy; whatever that is exactly…
I've only read the last few posts but am now wondering if anyone has looked at Dr Rosy Daniel's Cancer Lifeline kit and Health Creation Service; she's linked with Penny Brohn. Looking at the leaflet I see there's 'The Cancer Lifeline Recipes' by Jane Sen, priced at £12.50. I'm more than a tad cynical. I mean, how much of it is very clever marketing and aims to cash in on Cancer suffers? However, I also find myself pondering on the 'Images for Healing Cancer CD', or perhaps I should go for the 'Heal Yourself CD'? But at £11.75 each; would I be a total sucker?! Any advice greatly appreciated…

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Hi ladies, I follow this post because I find it very interesting and informative. Before I was diagnosed I ate what I wanted to eat, which included loads of dairy and to a degree processed food and I was certainly partial to sweets. Now iv started eating more fish and veg and fruit, I try to buy organic when I can but its so expensive its hard to do it all the time. I work in a hospital and there are now so many people being diagnosed with cancer it certainly makes you think about what you put into your body. As much has I find it all confusing I'm delighted this post is here, please keep up the good work. Also what is the best vegtables to juice? Not really got into that but would like to. Many thanks karen.p.s, I'm really missing eating the cocunut finger with fresh cream you buy fron greggs, ha ha xx

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Dear All
Is interesting reading as diet so confusing. I went to Penny Brohn a year ago and not sure if changed approach. We were told organic veg, fruit where possible, lots of veg, no or little red nest, chicken and fish and wholegrain bread, rice etc. Limited sugars recommended and coconut oil to cook with and couple of eggs a week.
I noticed Jane Plant has resigned from PBC As says strongly disagrees with dietary advice so not sure if maybe they have changed advice recently.
I think the dairy is the most confusing as some say increased IGF and others say doesn't. I gave up on diagnosis and interestingly had some hair testing done showing lactose intolerance and feel much better off dairy so go with it. In States some are receommending metformin, which i have chiaen ti take to try to stabilise insulin peaks and I suppose same argument as papers lemon grove posted although suppose doing same thing.
Jo x

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Interestingly the last time I visited penny brohn (about 4 months ago) the nutritionalist suggested - 2 eggs for breakfast, pulses or fish with veg/salad at lunch time and chicken with veg for dinner. I have been a veggie since I was 15 and pretty much vegan since secondaries were diagnosed. She strongly advised me against this. She also suggested including some organic butter. Whole grains were still in there but there seemed to be much more emphasis on protein and omega oils than previously - either I had some mad woman who had snuck in off the street and had nothing to do with penny brohn:-) or they have made some serious changes to their dietary suggestions over the last few months
Also - lemongrove, have you heard about a diet called 'the zone' ? I don't know much about it but it's an American diet that's been around for a few years. It seems to be all about stabilizing insulin and glucose levels. So it focusses on getting the right balance of proteins and carbs. I think they have books about it on amazon, thought I might get one
Mx

Lemongrove
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Just thought I would add my two pennies worth about the diet debate.
As Leadie say's there is a tendancy amongst alternative/complementary writers to recommend low fat, low protein,low dairy, high unrefined carbohydrate diets (certainly Penny Brohn advocate this approach, as does the China Diet). However, there is an increasing body of evidence that links metabolic syndrome with Breast Cancer, and links metabolic syndrome with poor treatment outcomes (for anyone interested, I have provided a link below to an article written by the Prof who treats me, and there are literally hundreds of articles about this if you google metabolic disease and BC). The interesting thing is that the diet that is usually advocated for metabolic disease is a high protein diet (this is to minimise glucose in the blood, reset insulin production, and change the fat to muscle ratio). It is also High in dairy( because apparently there is evidence that calcium in dairy helps the body to process/rid itself of fat), and is low in any type of carbohydrate (because again the aim is to lower blood sugar and alter the fat to muscle ratio).
I appreciate that this approach seems counter-intuitive, and goes against normal advise, and I only mention it because I think it demonstrates how difficult it is to decide what a healthy diet actually is in relation to BC

http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/08/04/annonc.mdr347.abstract

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

I think the subject of what to eat is a minefield of information and mis-information. When I was diagnosed 4 years ago, I read a lot and decided from all the literature that the rainbow diet and the anticancer diet and the recommendation of the penny brohn centre all came up with pretty much the same advice.
Organic fruit, veg and meat if possible. Plenty of fruit and veg, juicing fruit and veg, small ammounts of meat, less red meat, no processed food,no dairy,a glass of wine a week or no alcohol,plenty of water,supplements,limited wheat.
Soya is a tricky one, and the jury is still out on that one. I think a small ammount is okay but not everyday.I have rice milk on cereals as that seems the least of lesser evils!!
I'm very happy with this way of eating, the organic is expensive and sometimes I eat non-organic like root veg as they have the least pesticides.etc.but things like salad stuff I always get organic. I think that eating seasonally is cheaper too, when I was a kid that's all that was in the shops!!
It does become a way of life after time and I feel healthy and well.
Reading the last few posts about low risks and still getting cancer, I was in a very low risk group except for stress levels and a lot of cancer in the family. I believe my tumour was from an old injury and high levels of stress for 2 years previous to my dx. Stress messes up hormones in the body and puts incredible strain on the immune system.
Glad to see the thread ressurected!!!
Best wishes all in your journeys to health again!!

elinda45
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Hi Judes

Yes, veg and fruit are carbs too although most are low GI I believe.

I've been thinking about the Asian countries such as China and Thailand etc where they appear to eat a lot of white rice. I found this on wiki about GI and if you look at the section on disease prevention they do actually theorise about just this:

"Conversely, there are areas such as Peru and Asia, where people eat high-glycemic index foods such as potatoes and high-GI rices, but without a high level of obesity or diabetes.[9] The high consumption of legumes in South America and fresh fruit and vegetables in Asia likely lowers the glycemic effect in these individuals. The mixing of high- and low-GI carbohydrates produces moderate GI values."

The full link is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index

Okay so it's wiki and not an academic paper but if you think about the overall diet with lots of veg or legumes it does make sense.

The other thing that is interesting is the issues about insulin response which is different from the glycaemic response. So some things that have a relatively low glycaemic response can cause a greater insulin response.
I'm no expert and all this stuff is quite new to me but I suppose in an ideal world we avoid too many major spikes from things like eating sweets and overall try to keep both low by limiting grains, potatoes etc. Not easy though is it?

I have also read that having some protein and fat with the carbs reduces the spikes but I'm not totally clear on that. I think therefore from the article you posted and from other stuff I've read it's better to have your major carbs with your meal rather than having high carb snacks at other times.

I also read about wholegrain pumpernickel bread being a lower GI product. Have you found anywhere that sells it?

I do agree about the veg. There are so many studies that indicate the nutritional qualities of veg and getting a mixture seems to be key. I'm going to start making more veg soup from next week as I love salads in the summer but struggle with having veg at lunchtimes in the winter.

Elinda x

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Elinda thanks for your response. My nutritionalist basically advised similar to what you're saying, just to recognise that there are carbs in veg and fruit. Ideally I think she doesn't advise having many grains - pumpernickel bread, spelt whole wheat pasta, oats for breakfast, oat cakes, general low GI stuff. But mainly plants and protein.

I didn't ask about china etc. it is confusing isn't it? But I think I function better on a low carb diet, don't get cravings for sweet things if I keep my blood sugar quite constant. I don't do it perfectly but really think I'm coming to the belief that whatever regime you follow the most important thing is to eat as much varied, high quality veg and fruit as you can, with veg quite a bit better than fruit.

Jx

Ruth13
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Monicas,

Great write up.I like you eat healthily, no junk food, no FH, regularly exercise, never smoked, never taken any hormones, alcohol at weekends and still got BC at 49, although told there at least 4yrs, no lump either.

If you look at all these diets there are issues with them all. Very interesting re China.

I'm going to continue in my usual healthy .

Fiona x

elinda45
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Other thing perhaps worth mentioning is that diet isn't of course the only factor linked to risk of cancer. For example, smoking and lung cancer, and I understand things like h pylori can also increase risk of stomach cancer, the HPV virus for cervical cancer etc etc.
Diet is just one part of a very big jigsaw. Elinda x

elinda45
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Hi Monica

Personally I think that any site that talks about 'curing cancer' through diet should be avoided.

The evidence on diet is still quite limited in a number of areas and can be contradictary. Some of us have wanted to try to explore some of the current research looking at predominantly academic research on pubmed - it certainly helped give me back some sense of control and I was also interested for general health not just cancer. That's not to say I always slavishly follow what I think is best - that can be a weigh up with quality of life. I do though like to understand the science between recommendations.

Looking at diet research is not for everyone though and for some, even discussing diet causes more angst.

All of us have to do what feels right for us and whatever gets us through all of this.
take care all, Elinda x

MonicaS
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

I've been tuningn in to this thread for a while but only just
decided to make a comment - or a cry for help? I'm totally bemused by the torrents of contradictory information I find (mostly on the Internet) about diet and cancer, ranging from "of course a healthy diet is a good idea but there's no evidence that "anti-cancer diets" will cure/prevent cancer" to "don't eat any chickens you didn't know personally". Help! I'm damn sure all these hours hunched over the laptop reading about bio-chemistry stuff I don't understand are doing my neck no good at all.

I'm slim, don't smoke, eat virtually no processed foods, no junk food, lots of veg and fruit, glass of wine a day (okay, 2 on weekends), walk, and am a keen cyclist. Had no BC in my family at all. Took HRT and it's easy to blame that but that's not necessarily it.

I use quite a few complementary therapies - I go to yoga every week, get herbal/dietary information from my son who's a herbalist, go to reiki occasionally, I've tried other types of healing, and acupuncture. But when it comes to cancer cures, I need someone better qualified than I am to evaluate the claims.

One thing none of us needs is more stress. And when I start agonising about whether I've eaten enough cabbage this week, or having a glass of wine, I get stressed. So I'm going to do what BCC tells me re diet, and lighten up a bit. Keep scanning the horizon for information and developments from reliable sources, and try to chillax.

BTW the Japanese are often cited for their longevity and superior fishy diet, and I wondered what cancers they got - well: lung, stomach, colon, liver, cancer and pancreas, in that order. 1 in 3 dies of cancer. Food for thought?

Sorry this is a tome. Take care, Monicas

sarahlousie
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Hi Jules and Elinda,

The low carb diet is what Kris Carr talks a lot about in her book crazy sexy diet, she mentions about cutting out all carbs especially white rice, pasta, potatoes etc a lot of her replacement for these is soya based products which unfortunately has left me stumped cause I choose not too eat soya cause of the estrogen link (personal decision), it all gets completely confusing and just started rads today and used it as an excuse to eat a steak/kidney steam suet pudding yumyum with mash potatoes and peas yumy yummy, LOL sorry ladies but xmas has put a right spanner in the diet especially juicing but need to keep my weight up for the rads well thats my excuse and I'm sticking to it!! LOL Finish rads on the 24th Jan will probably start juicing back up again then, got a full tray of wheatgrass fully grown so will have too do a wheatgrass shot sometime soon.

Interesting reading, speak soon
Love and light
sarahlousie xx

elinda45
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

I've had a look at the link that Jules posted on low carb diet and cancer. It is fascinating but has completely confused me. I had been under the impression that a diet high in whole grains was okay but it seems not even that. I did not know that carbs could affect IGF-1 either I thought it was dietary protein that did that!

The paper makes a good case for the mechanisms at work and why a high carb diet might increase risk and progression of cancer. I suppose what it doesn't say though is what the diet should be except I think there was a figure of 15% carbs (if I remember rightly) which is low. The other thing that I found extraordinary was about fat.

Another reason I'm confused is that there aren't many societies in the world that have a low carb diet are there? Yet, for example, breast cancer rates are very low in places like China and Thailand where rice is a staple. I think from what I've read, cancer rates are low in China except for stomach cancer which may be due to the high rates of untreated h pylori.

All in all feeling very confused. I will see if I can find more on this and Jules if your nutrionalist has anymore info on this I'd love to see it. Thanks again for posting it.

The way I'm thinking now is to keep a good balance of lots and lots of veg, protein each meal and some carbs. The ratio is what I'm not so clear about.

Oh and I'd made some lovely lemon and almond meringues for new year - they would be a definite no-no 'cos of the high glucose content.

Elinda x

elinda45
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Judes - I won't get a chance to look at this again until next week but definitely will.

Couldn't agree more with your comments about the difficulties of research. Would love to see any others you have to post.

Elinda x

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

thanks elinda, i'll be really interested in what you think of those papers. you're obviously very familiar with a lot of the research and good at unpicking shoddy methodology.

i must say that i got almost exactly the same advice from another friend with an inoperable brain tumour, whose wife is a nutritionlist. the woman i consulted, carol granger, is attached to the university of westminster, so it's legit academia. it seems that in london at least, in nutritionalist circles (or certain nutritionalist cirlces?) that is the current way of thinking. not that it makes it right of course! also it's not so different from the anticancer book.

so difficult when it's almost impossible to do RCT on human nutrition and rats don't really suffice, and self report retrospective data is always suspect.

i'm going to dig out the other papers she gave me and post those too when i get a mo.

xxx

elinda45
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Judes - will definitely look into the protein side of things again. It's so interesting to see this and thanks for the information. Elinda x

elinda45
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Hi all

From what I've read it seems important to have the fibre as well as the juice (preferably vegetable). there is research on this which I've posted before on this thread (sorry not sure where though).
You may find this link interesting which is about cooked versus raw vegetables - it's quite surprising too. You need to leave the link for about 10 seconds to load:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=raw-veggies-are-healthier

There is a lot of dubious information out there in both books and the internet so I have always tried to find good academic research to support ideas.

With regards to the acidity/alkalinity of the body, I've not managed to find anything concrete re cancer so if anyone knows of anything please do post!
However, there is a definite body of academic research looking at acidity/alkalinity from dietary intake (University of Surrey) although this is largely to do with osteoporosis:
http://epubs.surrey.ac.uk/2557/1/estimates_daily_net_GANNON_08.pdf

For a more general overview of how acidity may affect bones and why please see below:
http://www.surrey.ac.uk/advance/people/bone_strength_emma_wynn.htm

I think the research on acidity/alkalinity is still in its infancy but could yield some interesting results for the future.

Elinda x

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

joules i asked my nutritionalist about juices and juicing and she advised some caution, especially with fruit. she said vegetables were ok, but to remember it's really better to eat the fibre too. even carrots are quite sweet and it's probably better to have, say, just one carrot in a juice with beetroot and ginger and celery or something. but i know some people swear by their juices so i don't want to claim any expert knowledge. oh, and she isn't against fruit per se, although it can be higher carb, just juiced fruit.

elinda i saw the china study found the opposite - although i haven't looked into it. it seems to me from my little looking around that quite a few people are coming to the low carb answer. i have a friend who does the paleolithic diet, which is based on the same principle, and has researched it a lot. there's also more recent stuff on inducing ketosis during chemo - i'm paraphrasing badly here but i think rat studies found that starving rats before chemo meant they could tolerate higher and more effective doses. now i wouldn't for a tiny second imagine that any of us would want to starve ourselves and have higher doses of chemo, but the research is interesting.

it could just be that whichever bit of nutrition research you look into there are loads of studies and it seems like a consensus is forming but were you to look into another area, low-protein research maybe, it would look like there was consensus there too.

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

sarah louise - thanks for the info. I will certainly give it all a go and try out some of your 'recipes' and will let you know how i get on.

Stressy-messy - thanks also for your input. It is always good to hear all there is as there is so much info out there it is hard to dissect what to do etc. As i have secondaries, i dont think i have anything to lose, and if it helps to keep me feeling well a little longer, then its all good. I would try anything within reason.

I am pleased that this thread is still here for us people who are relatively new to all of this. At least it gives us somewhere to start.
Much love xx

stressy_messy
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

with regards to the alkaline/acidic post

"pH Facts
Your body balances the acids and bases in your system with very little wiggle room. Normal pH for a human being is about 7.4. If it goes lower than 7 or higher than 7.7, you will either be in severe distress or dead. The hydrochloric acid in your stomach is so powerful that it turns all food into acids, and your intestines neutralize the acids, making whatever passes through them alkaline. So, it doesn’t matter whether foods are considered acid or alkaline before you eat them; your body coverts them into both. Your urine’s pH can be altered significantly by what you eat and drink, BUT this measurement does not reflect the core pH of your body."

I thought this thread had gone away....and really wish it had

just my opinion and know i'm probably gonna get slated for it but hey ho who cares.

happy new year xx

sarahlousie
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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Joules - Interesting about your craving for the lemons defo something in this and yes I think we all need to be more in tune with our bodies and listen to or look for subconscious signs. As for your question fruit juices whether bought or juiced by yourself still contain fruit sugars in Kris Carrs book she recommends juicing 2 veg and 1 fruit ie: broccoli, cucumber, with say an green apple, I tend to juice carrots, broccoli, cucumber, celery, kale, with additional beet-root or green apple or a pear also do a wheat-grass shot (I grow my own wheat-grass) and juice alfalfa sprouts amongst others like mung sprouts again I grow them at home, its not expensive and easily done, I have an indoor propagator which didn't cost much but enables me to produce these specialist plants without costing the earth or having to travel far to get them. You can buy wheatgrass powder from Holland and Barratt but fresh wheatgrass contains the most chlorophyl and really is a super food, I would recommend to google this and read up on wheatgrass by the way it tastes awful.

From what I understand white foods ie: white bread, potatoes, white rice/pasta obviously contain a lot of starch when consumed the body converts this starch into glucose that is then fed to our cells this is where it becomes a problem for people with active cancer cells. Please correct me if I am wrong but this is how I understand it.

Hope this helps
sarahlousie xx

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Judes - the links you posted are really interesting. I have also read 'somewhere else' about glucose and the fact that cancer cells like glucose.

Can anyone answer this question - is it then ok to drink cartons of juice and/or juice your own fruit juices, because to effectively lower blood glucose levels, avoid eating foods that contain sugar or other simple carbohydrates, such as white rice, white pastas, sodas, juices, white breads and sweets.

I got this info from http://www.livestrong.com/article/376240-how-to-lower-body-glucose-levels/

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Elinda - many thanks for the links. i will take a look now. I have also started to go back through the pages for info. You ladies have done so much research.
Sarahlousie - thanks for the info on alkaline - i would never have thought that lemons help to make the body alkaline, and what is sooo weird is that all through chemo and even now, i crave lemon with hot water! strange or what? maybe i should listen to my body a little more.
I was also diagnosed with secondaries (bone mets) but approx 2 weeks after radiotherapy and about 6 weeks after chemo, so i want to do everything i possibly can to stabilise things. I am also ER+
Again many thanks both of you for taking time to reply to me.
lots of love xx

sarahlousie
Member

Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Joules101 - Just to add to the information Elinda has posted as far as I understand it an alkali body is not an attractive host to cancer cells, cancer cells prefer an acid body to multiply in. Couple of things known to make the body more alkaline is Green Juicing (use only organic veg), hot water with slice of lemon and ginger, Lemons/limes do make your body more alkaline even tho you might think these citrus fruits acidic, also organic apple cider vinegar (with the mother in it) really helps to make the body alkaline. The two books myself and Judes have mentioned cover this area of acid v alkaline.

As Elinda has said it is a bit of a mine field with diet but I have been researching since dx back in march and as I have secondaries from the get go I figure what have I got to loose by choosing to change/adjust my diet and nutritional intake, I just wanna throw everything I got at this, but do appreciate how very confusing it can all sound. There are a lot of contradictions as regards to whether or not to use soy I personally avoid all soy like the plague as there are some schools of thought that soya especially processed soya has estrogen mimickers in it and as I have estrogen rich cancer ie: my cancer is fed by estrogen I choose not to add more estrogen into my diet, but again this is not clinically proven its just how I feel about the issue and a personal decision.

Hope this helps
love and light
sarahlousie xxx

elinda45
Member

Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Judes - thanks so much for posting the research. Wow, I am quite surprised by it! I don't know if you've read The China Study but he states the opposite ie. to have a low protein, vegan diet. I wasn't totally convinced by that but the research you've posted is quite different so very interesting.
I will definitely look into this.

Sarahlouisie - from what I understand, its probably most important if you have milk to have organic as I believe the cows aren't so intensively milked (not in the third trimester). I don't know much about it as I don't have dairy but someone might be able to respond more on that.

Joules - the subject of diet is so confusing and there is so much conflicting information. If you look back through this thread you'll see that some of us tried to get more research. If you can bear to trawl through you'll see where we've got information from and we've covered almost everything.
If you want to look at academic research then try pubmed:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
It's not that user friendly though, you have to search very specifically by subject and it's very academic.

Another site that may be of interest is 'food for breast cancer' which is a terrible name but does back up its information with research. I'm not sure how up to date it is on everything though:
http://foodforbreastcancer.com/

Penny Brohn do have an information sheet and they do run courses you can attend. I believe that some of that is about diet and some women have found that useful.

With regard to soy, the research findings do appear to be mixed which is why it's so confusing. What we tend to have in the West is very processed soy such as soy milk etc. I largely avoid it for those reasons although do very occasionally indulge in a soya latte.

Some research suggests that diet per say doesn't play a significant role with breast cancer and that the important thing is not to be overweight, to exercise etc.

take care, elinda x

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

hi
All this sounds really complicated. I am really interested in this topic though and in reading your comments. Someone mentioned an Alkali body rather than a Acid one. What does this all mean? and what do you have to eat and not eat? I have been reading about the Penny Brohn clinic and the Bristol approach. Has anyone on this thread been or know anything more?
I feel that the more i read, the more complicated things get. for e.g. i read not to have dairy, so i have cut down. But some places i have read say have soy and some places say dont.
Where do you get your info from ?
thanks xx

sarahlousie
Member

Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Hi Judes and Elinda,

Judes - thanks for the links makes interesting reading, basically I changed my diet and follow the Kris Carr 'Crazy Sexy Diet' (similar to your Dr. Davidservan schreiber's anticancer book) although I have made some changes to it to include oily fish and once a month white meat ie: free range chicken/turkey cut out all sugars, red meat, soya (due to estrogen, my choice) and have minimized white starchy goods ie: potatoes, white rice, white pasta, I am finding dairy a problem to cut out but have changed my milk to semi-skimmed lactose free milk, decaf everything, and now only have a couple of cups of tea a week as opposed to everyday, basically everything in moderation or cut right down. I try to do a green juice everyday with organic veg, wheat is another problem area but recently started doing my own baking so I know what is in everything. I use diet as a way of putting back some form of control into my life and treating my cancer.

Sending you love and light
sarahlouise xxx

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

thanks elinda, yes yes, i mean low GI, i always say that wrong! i get confused with high fibre which is of course not the same thing.

yes, my nutritionalist gave me research papers to back it all up, with the appropriate bits highlighted. very thorough. these seem to be the most important, recent reviews of evidence of low-carb diets

Is there a role for carbohydrate restriction in the treatment and prevention of cancer? 28 October 2011
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/8/1/75/abstract (full pdf available)

A low carbohydrate, high protein diet slows tumor growth and prevents cancer initiation June 2011
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/early/2011/06/10/0008-5472.CAN-10-3973

on protein she said legumes and fish, with occasional good quality meat. but of course these recommendations were for me, not sure she would say the same for everyone.

elinda45
Member

Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Glad that the thread is still going!

Judes I think I would want to know from the nutrionalist what her rationale is for the diet she suggests and if there is research evidence to support it - possibly she has already gone through that with you. Not that I'm disputing it incidentally but good to know (?perhaps with the exception of the live yoghurt as I'm dairy free)

Can I ask what she said about protein and the types of protein she recommended?

Also did you mean low GI diet?
Elinda x

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

hi folks

i keep trying to catch up with this thread but feel i need to read it from the beginning and never make enough headway. anyway, i'm really interested in the nutrition/cancer link, and what i can eat to maximise my chances of recovery. i saw a nutritionalist who specialises in cancer and she said many of the things mentioned here:

most importantly, cut out refined sugar and starch, as much as possible follow a high GI diet with lots of oily fish and fresh vegetables and fruit. protein with every meal; cinnamon, ground flax seeds, live yoghurt, tumeric (with black pepper) every day. cruciferous vegetables very good. green tea and lots of it.

i've been trying to follow it but not being too strict on myself because it can feel a bit punitive. i have completely cut out sugar and radically cut down on carbohydrates and increased veg. i think it is healthy overall, so makes me feel better.

i've read david servan schreiber's anticancer book which is really good, i like the mind and body sections as well. he has similar advice but a bit less strict on carbs.

anyway, sorry if i'm just repeating things that have been said here ad nauseum but i'm going to join in. great thread.

x

sarahlousie
Member

Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Hi all,

Just found this website http://nutritionfacts.org/videos/vegetables-versus-breast-cancer/ which contains quite a few interesting videos on breast cancer and nutrition/diet, definately worth a watch.
sending love and light
sarahlousie xx

elinda45
Member

Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

I found this article on oils which is a Daily Mail one so not the best source but very interesting:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-499546/The-cooking-oils-make-healthy--dont.html

Here's another one from the Telegraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/5407832/The-rapeseed-revolution.html

I must admit to being quite confused about what is best for frying and not sure what is meant by light frying - presumably that would include things like stir fries, frying onions and deep frying is for things like frying chips or something.

If anyone knows more would love to hear. Anyone been to the Penny Brohn centre and know what they advise?

Elinda x

elinda45
Member

Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Hi Valanne

As I understand it, the thing with oils is how stable they are at high temperatures. Some are not and need to be used only for dressings.
I'm not really sure about walnut oil, I have a feeling that may come into that category. It should say on the bottle if you can use it for cooking? Does make a lovely salad dressing if not though. Elinda x

sarahlousie
Member

Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Hi Valanne,

I'm not sure whether walnut oil is ok or not so sorry I cant be of much help with that. I would like to add that I have also changed everything since dx, gave up eating sugar, red meat, soy, still on dairy keep it to a minimum I figured I'm not gonna give up something for soya which could also have an adverse effect and I dont like the taste of soy. Juice every week and try to eat organic, whole grain and unprocessed foods. I havent read that book by Dr Servan Schreiber but he had a long run on the diet did'nt he I think it was 19 years, which is just amazing. I take it you would recommend this book? I was looking at buying the Kris Carr books Crazy Sexey Diet etc.

Hope someone comes along and answers your question about Walnut Oil, which by the way sounds delicious and a nice change from olive oil.

Sending you love and light
Sarahlousie xx

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

I was interested to read the piece about Omega6/Omega3, I usually cook in olive oil but recently read that walnuts are good so, on that premise, bought some walnut oil. Do you think that's okay? I had a lumpectomy 4 years ago and was unable to take medication because everything made me so nauseous. I bought David Servan Schreiber's book and must be doing something right as my cancer had gone into my blood stream and was aggressive and I'm still - fingers crossed - okay.

elinda45
Member

Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

I should add re my post above that I'm not an expert and those are just my personal views. elinda x

elinda45
Member

Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Overall I thought the programme was quite interesting although a bit glossy and repetitative. I will watch it becuase there were some really interesting snippets.

The advice on breast cancer was rather a cop out although I'm glad they mentioned the dairy debate.

Why I think it was a cop out is that they talked about excessive alcohol and cancer but research is showing that even very moderate amounts of alcohol can increase breast cancer risk. There was another study reported on from the States only yesterday:
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2011/11November/Pages/breast-cancer-link-alcohol-studied.aspx
Very few women seem to be aware of this at all.

Another reason is that I think it might also have been a good idea to talk about some of the issues with soy products and the lack of evidence to show that the type we tend to eat in the West (more processed things such as soy milk etc) are actually safe. It would have been good to state there is also controversy regarding soy.

The main overall issue I've always had about dairy is with regard to its safety for those who have been diagnosed with breast cancer as opposed to the general population. There are studies on soy that look specifically at women who've been diagnosed with breast cancer. I've not seen the equivalent type of research on dairy products. They might be safe for women with breast cancer, they might not, we simply don't know. Hopefully some research will clarify this for us soon.

They also didn't discuss any supplements or phytooestrogens. I guess something like breast cancer is such a huge issue that you'd need a whole programme on it. Elinda x

sarahlousie
Member

Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

Jo-Jo - I totally agree with you the segment on the young woman with breast cancer seemed a bit of a cop out and they did'nt really comment on what they were actually doing and the changes in diet that they had made. I was disappointed in this. Also the twins had stopped eating dairy and swapped it for soya well apparently soya has estrogen or estrogen mimickers in it, so in order to cut all estrogen out they need to cut out soya as well. The other case studies were interesting and the programe could help someone as long as you dont have cancer bascially.

love and light
Sarahlousie xxx

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Re: For those interested in research on diet and cancer

i watched the food hospital and agree that although it was interesting, the breast cancer part was very short and i thought a bit of a 'cop out' and too basic.

the twins had given up meat and dairy (but substituted with soya) and were basically told that although their diets were good there was no evidence to support the removal of dairy. they pointed out that the dairy and soya arguments were quite controversial and smoking, being overweight and alcohol were stated as the risk factors, although if you looked at the girls it wouldn't appear that any of these were an issue (like me).

i remain convinced that the changes i have made to my diet are for the best for me as an individual and i will continue to stay dairy-free and meat-free.

Joanne xxx