Re Water filters: Water disinfection isn't normally required on household drinking taps, but if you live in an old and don't know what the plumbing is like there are few products that can help:
Water disinfection would be a good start. This new product called Quantum Disinfection does away with chemicals and uses a catalytic electron exchange to disinfect water. There is no power, no chemicals and no maintenance.
Alternatively, if you have access to a well then this well water treatment unit has superior filtration performance. It offers small mesh size to remove finer particles.
Using water softeners to remove hard scale wastes a lot of water and uses lots of salt. The Next Scalestop is a proven alternative to salt water softeners. Ultimately it helps wy reducing operating costs. Also, the Scalestop system doesn't remove some of the nutrients valued in water.
I can't comment on the effect these devices have on particular ailments but hope the info is helpfull.
Hi ladies. Anyone done any research in to organic sulfur crystals, a food source so depleted through modern agriculture it hardly exists in our food and is essential for the health working of cells. I've also been researching the ph balance of the modern diet and discovered that most is on the high acidic side which creates an anaerobic environment where cancer cells are more likely to thrive. Bringing your ph balance up to 7 (neutral) or higher (alkaline) makes your system more oxygenated making healthy cells stronger to fight and cancer cells weaker and easier for your body to attack. Bring on the green leafy veg.
Hope all are doing well on your journeys, I've still got 2 chemo sessions left. Hbunny
"Getting enough vitamin D is important for your overall health. Some people can get enough vitamin D through sun exposure alone. Being outside in the sunshine, with your arms and legs uncovered,for between five and 30 minutes at least twice a week may be enough for some people. If you live in a cold climate, have dark skin tone or wear sunscreen (which is important for preventing skin cancer), the amount of vitamin D you get through sunshine may be less than you need. So, it’s a good idea to get some vitamin D in your diet too. The recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for people ages 1 to 70 (including pregnant and breastfeeding women) is 600 IU. For men and women aged 71 and older, the RDA is 800 IU.
The IOM report concluded the current data show no additional health benefit to getting more vitamin D than the recommended dietary allowance. And, while you can’t get too much vitamin D through sunshine, you can get too much vitamin D in your diet. Too much vitamin D can lead to kidney stones and other health problems. Getting more than 4,000 IU per day increases the risk of harmful health effects in both men and women".
"Findings from prospective cohort studies looking at vitamin D exposure (through sunlight, diet or both) and breast cancer risk are mixed. Some show vitamin D slightly lowers risk among premenopausal women (but not among postmenopausal women).However, many large studies, including a meta-analysis that combined the results of six studies, show no link between vitamin D, from either sunlight exposure or diet, and breast cancer risk."
Thanks for the info. It is a while since i looked on the forum, I have been away for a few days but also gone back to work.........taking up a lot of my time.
It would be interesting to get a blood test done, but not sure my GP will oblige. I did have my Vit D done late last year. Done via post to a Hospital in Birmingham. I think i paid £40 ish. I have really cut down on dairy and milk, Using organic where possible and some almond milk. The info i can find, particularly Penny Brohn website recipes recommends Organic and if possible from grass fed cattle.
Is this the thread you are thinking about? http://forum.breastcancercare.org.uk/t5/Complementary-therapies/Recipes-getting-products-for-a-healt...
GP has given the go-ahead for the 5:2 diet but could not offer the IGF 1 test on the NHS as "there was no justification". Got a similar reaction when I asked for the vit D test in 2012 but she did at least ask for the test to be done (it came back normal).
I'm seeing the Onc on 04/04 and might touch on the subject with her and see how enlightened she is!
There used to be a thread where we swapped recipes but I can't find it, don't suppose anyone has the link?
p.s. GP definitely thinks I'm bonkers but humours me 🙂
Hi Daisygirl ,
I know children can get this blood test for certain conditions to measure their growth levels , so there is a test available on the NHS, am not sure if the test is available for all conditions but its worth asking if you are concerned about it , let us know how you get on as will be interesting to find out , you would think a blood test would be standard for cancer patients if studies have suggested a possible link wouldn't you , btw, think we are all a bit bonkers after this disease lol.
Thanks CG, it will be interesting to hear what my GP says 🙂 I'm also going to ask if I can have an IGF 1 blood test to see what my current levels are, she will probably think I'm bonkers but that's nothing new!
IGF-1 (insulin growth factor 1). This growth factor has been the subject of a research study into breast cancer risk. Women with high levels of IGF-1 in their blood may have a higher risk of breast cancer. Some scientists think that high IGF-1 levels may also encourage an existing breast cancer to spread, but this has not been proved.
IGF-1 is also a naturally occurring hormone that we (and cows) all make. The normal IGF-1 level in humans is 100 times higher than the level in the average pint of milk. It may be that IGF-1 is important in the development of cancer. But it may be that our natural levels and how they vary between people that is the issue. As Uk and European cattle don't get this hormone, our milk does not contain high IGF-1 levels .
Here's a link re the The 5:2 diet from Nhs Choices , which may explain more about this diet and any evidence to date.
What is IGF 1 ? Something to do with the Glycemic load in foods??? I have been looking at my diet and the Anti Cancer recommendations seem to link with low glycemic load...... Look forward to your reply..
Thanks Gilly x
I lost this thread when the site was changed and so I am delighted to find it again! I have not posted much over the last year as now back at work and moving forward! However, I have recently become interested in the 5:2 diet and in particular the effect this has on IGF 1. I did not really understand the issues at the time but have just watched the 2012 Horizon programme that explains this in detail.
I am going to ask my GP before I start the diet, but was wondering if anyone else is on the diet and perhaps we could exchange experiences and recipes.
Hi all, just found this thread and have not had time to read through it all, but am going to.
I am with you on this, it's hard to know what to do. All I can say is I have been on an anti-candida diet for years, and only eat sugar in the form of fresh fruit (and not very sugary fruit like melons, grapes etc - also nothing fermented like alchohol, vinegar and nothing yeasty), and also have been on a dairy-free diet due to lactose intolerance. However I still got BC! The thing is is that IF these things do affect the development of cancer, then it is only an increased risk. So if the chance of you developing BC is, say, 30% (because you are a woman), and then there is an increased risk of say 5% due to eating a diet high in dairy, that will only affect the overall risk a little bit (I have forgotten how to do statistics).
Having said that, I am thinking why not cut down the risk as far as possible, OK so maybe no link is proven, but "what if"! The medical community differ even on what treatment is best, let alone what causes what, and I am sure that our 20th century lifestyle has had a huge effect on the number of cancer cases we have now. So I am sticking to my diet, and trying to eat organic food as far as possible. Also I am switching myself and the kids to paraben, SLS-free toiletries and Al-free deodorants. The David Servan-Schreiber book is the one to read, I think - it's very clear and well-laid out, and do-able. For me the difficult thing is cutting down red meat as my ds will not eat vegetarian food, and I can't be doing with cooking different meals for him! As you said, this cancer thing could really work out expensive in terms of lifestyle change!!
I think you need to find a balance that works for you, Lisa - if you are feeling rubbish because not having a glass of wine or whatever makes you feel miserable then that will affect your mental state, and also that is not good, so why not try these things out and see how you go. Oh and in refererence to hair growth as mentioned on November thread, yes put a new photo on!!
I just wanted to bring your attention to a statement given by Breast Cancer Care's Clinical Director Dr Emma Pennery earlier in this thread:
These different opinions on diet are not surprising and reflect a debate that has raged in the scientific and popular press for many years.
One reason for this is robust studies on diet are notoriously difficult to design. Any influences of diet on the risk of getting cancer or cancer recurrence take effect over time, so studies need to explore what people eat over many years, which can be hard to record accurately.
It’s also difficult to untangle exactly what in our diets is having an effect. For example, diets high in fatty foods or alcohol have been shown to increase the chances of getting breast cancer. But this may be due to the fats themselves or because they contribute to being overweight or because people who eat high fat diets may not do much exercise.
Even large, well designed, randomised trials have produced conflicting results. For example in one review of twelve high quality studies, six showed dairy products reduced the risk of breast cancer and 6 showed no relationship between dairy products and breast cancer risk.
So the jury is still out for many foods and their influence on cancer risk in isolation. It is also unclear if lifestyle factors that increase the risk of getting breast cancer are the same as those that increase the risk of it coming back. However, reliable evidence does suggest you can help to reduce the risk of getting breast cancer or it coming back – and look after your general health – by eating a well-balanced diet without too much saturated fat, maintaining a healthy weight, doing regular exercise and not drinking too much alcohol.
If you have any questions or concerns about your current diet or would like to discuss changes you are considering making, please do call our free helpline on 0808 800 6000 where traine helpliners and breast care nurses will be able to discuss any anxieties you may have.
Many many pages of info here.....much of it extremely interesting.
Im still going through chemo and have 2 of 8 left so as i near the end of this stage of treatment i have started to look at changes i am responsible for managing i.e. diet and products i use on my body. To that end im slowly swapping over things like deodrants, showel gels, moisturizers etc to paraben, SLS free, rather expensive but hey ho!
Ive gained over 2 stone with the treatments and change of lifestyle in the last 5-6 months which i intend to start chipping away at post MX, but im a bit ....not confused...but a little manic about some of the diet and toiletries changes i should perhaps start making.
Giving up sugar - is this in everything i.e no added sugar in tea/coffee, drinks etc. what about cakes or desserts...does one just point blank never eat such items again or are we talking about moderation here....and whats considered moderate?
My BC is ER +, do i have to give up dairy, can i switch to organic or does this not address the hormone issue?
Kinda freaking out a little, but major change can often this to me so im trying to stay within the realms of logic and not panic, just looking for some top tips on where to start really without setting myself up for failure or feeling like i can never enjoy food again or even being a woman again.
Just looking at all my lovely creams, showel gels, parfums and planning a massive throw out or give away or am i approaching this in the wrong way?
Appreciate your advice.
Coming at the immune system's ability to target cancer from a slightly different angle...
I had a "benign" lump in my breast for several years. Two years ago I discovered that I had developed type 1 diabetes, which was due to my immune system attacking and destroying the cells in my pancreas responsible for the production of insulin. No one knows why this happens, part of it may be due to genetics and family history, and part of it may be due to trauma, injury or infection, and a faulty response of the immune systems to that trauma.
A year later, at my annual mammogram, it was discovered that my lump was no longer benign, I had cancer.
Would it be possible that my diabetes was triggered by my BC? I don't know, but if it were it might suggest that the immune system is "aware" of cancer cells, but doesn't know how to react to them.
On finishing chemo I developed another auto immune problem, this time it is my thyroid that is being attacked by my immune system. Not very uncommon in women of my age (50) and not at all uncommon with type 1 diabetes (I think of them as the evil twins).
Or perhaps my cancer was a result of the failure of my immune system, rather than the other way around.
Not very scientific I know, just ramblings on the subject that may, or may not, be of interest.
Another explanation for spontaneous regression could be misdiagnosis. Maybe those people who seem on their last legs and then suddenly recover, are people who never had cancer in the first place, but were ill from the effects of chemo, surgery, rads etc.
I know this is unlikely as far as a primary diagnosis is concerned, because doctors invariably biopsy primary tumours before giving a diagnosis, but they seldom biopsy hot-spots before giving a diagnosis of secondary cancer - and there are occasionally stories in the press about people who go on massive spending sprees after a terminal diagnosis, only to discover that the diagnosis was wrong.
Maybe lemongroves Oncologist is right and some cancers just fizzle out instead of progressing,or as you say Elinda, some just have a limited life span.It seems by the evidence given already that it has nothing to do with the immune system,so perhaps it just happens for no reason.
Guess we will never know until science one day discovers why.
The reasons why I think cancers regress and disappear is because the immune system does the job it is designed to do!
Things are not better but different... so am adjusting to changes. Thanks for asking. Hope Finty is well - will miss her!
Things did get very heated on here as they are prone to on this thread. I think a few people stopped posting at that point including Finty. I do keep in touch with her occasionally and miss her input too. Elinda x
Has Finty stopped posting? - I used to enjoy her posts v much. I took a break from the forums for a bit during marriage meltdown in the autumn so maybe I missed something.
I was just wondering why a cancer that got so advanced as to be untreatable would suddenly regress like that. They must have some theories about it I'm sure. Perhaps then some cancers have a limited span even if they reach an advanced state.
Mel - I have heard about something similar so could be do with that.
I'm very curious now about all this.
I read a while ago about a lady who had many miscarages and it turned out that she had killer cells which would fight off any foreing body including a prgnancy,the DR said that not many people carry these cells and that although they were a bad thing for the prgnancy the lady would never get cancer.Maybe the people whos cancer's regress have these killer cells.Or maybe i'm talking rubbish lol, but it was just on my mind lol.
Elinda, as Stressy say's, spontaneous regression has nothing to do with the immune system suddenly recognising cancer cells. When I asked my Oncologist why spontaneous regression occurs, he said that some cancers seem destined to fizzle out, while others are destined to progress. At one time doctors thought that the way cancer behaved or progressed was down to pure chance, but medical research is changing this view.
This is why Scientists are now saying that in the future they will be able to predict how a cancer will behave, and tailor treatments to the individual, rather than a stage/grade of cancer.
Thanks Mel, this is fascinating. it really does seem that immunotherapy could revolutionise treatment in the future, possibly even vaccinations.
So if it isn't the immune system then in those very rare cases of spontaneous regression something is causing the cancer cells to die. I wonder what?
Unless of course something bizarre and rare happens with the immune system in those cases that make it respond for some reason. I suppose we don't know if and how often it is happening at the start of the development of cancer. The cases documented to date seem largely as Lemongrove pointed out those for whom there were no other treatment options. A hard thing to study as it is so rare.
It is comforting to know that all these new treatments are being explored. Elinda x
This is from a pod cast from CRUK
"“Effectively, cancer cells are ‘foreign’ to the body, and therefore they have the potential to be attacked by the immune system. But because they don’t necessarily have the same signatures as microbes, they don’t generally cause a very potent attack. You can draw an analogy with a baby growing inside a pregnant woman’s body – it is foreign to the body but it does not elicit an immune attack because it doesn’t mimic a bacterium or a virus."
you have to scroll right down to the piece that starts with
“Immunology is the study of the immune system"
"When cells become cancerous, the sugars on their surface proteins undergo distinct changes that set them apart from healthy cells. For decades, scientists have tried to enable the immune system to recognize those differences to destroy cancer cells rather than normal cells. But since cancer cells originate within the body, the immune system generally doesn't recognize them as foreign and therefore doesn't mount an attack"
Aparently Cancer Cells Are Protected By Our Own Immune System
I'm a bit confused about the immune system and its role. Anyway, I've found a few links which do explain a bit. It would seem that the immune system both does AND does not recognise tumour cells:
I found this link which explains it a little:
Have just found this which is helpful:
If anyone has any better links or a better understanding of all this I'd love to hear more. This is all new to me. Elinda x
Don't apologise elinda,I knew what you meant,but just thought that the blog explained that the study does not conclusively prove that the breast tumours regressed or indicate which tumours will regress and which will not.
The thing is you will never really be able to tell which tumours will regress as I don't expect many people would be willing to take the risk to find out as even if the 22% was right that still leaves a very high % that will progress
Like you say it is not known why some tumours may regress and there are different theories, but it's doubtful that it has anything to do with the immune system because we know the immune system doesn't recognize cancer cells.
Elinda and Stressy, I think the subject of spontaneous regression is very neglected. I did ask my Onc why it happens and what the percentage is, and he said nobody really knows for sure because the data hasn't really been collected. He did say that though, that current thinking is that every cancer is sort of programmed to behave in a certain way. At one time they thought the way cancer behaves and where it goes was random, but now they are beginning to think this might not be so. This is why the Scientists are now saying that in the future they will be able to predict how a cancer will behave, and tailor treatments to the individual, rather than a stage/grade of cancer.
I did see some stats on the Cancer Research website, but I believe these are based on a sample, taken in the midlands - the assumption being that they are representative. Seems to me that Unless we have this information, we will never know if there is a common denominator at work (and I guess we have to thank BCC for campaigning to get data on those with secondary cancer collected).
Like Stressy, I suspect it's more common than people think, because I know two people who have had spontaneous regression. One lady called June had secondary ovarian cancer that had spread so extensively that her Oncologist said there was nothing more they could do other than offer pain relief. She was naturally very frightened, and weak from all the treatment she had received, but after a couple of weeks she started to feel stronger, and then as the months went by she began to feel her old self. Anyway, when she returned to her Oncologist, they did tests and couldn't find any trace of cancer (that was 13 years ago, and she is still alive and well). The other one is a chap called Tony, who had lung cancer. He had one lung removed, but unfortunately the cancer went to the remaining lung. He was also told the end is nigh, but is still here 5 years later.
Mel - I couldn't agree more with the comments of the blog you posted. I don't think for a moment it should be used as a reason for not treating breast tumours - we know cancer kills. I apologise if that what's came across as it wasn't what I intended. I've had the works in terms of treatment and think that is the right thing to do if we want to maximise our chances.
I was just surprised when looking that there were any documented cases of spontaneous regression. I have though read elsewhere in other research that the percentage of spontaneous regression of cancer is absolutely miniscule and that seems to be far more likely. What interested me is that when it does happen, they don't seem to understand why as yet.
They say that 22% of breast cancers may spontaneously regress,but no one knows which if any will regress and which ones will not.
here is a blog from a breast surgeon,he explains what he thinks about this study
Perhaps some of the confusion relates to the rare occurances of spontaneous regression of tumours which does appear to include breast tumours. From what I've read, it is not really known what is the reason for this regression and there are various theories. I actually thought it was a bit of a myth until I started looking into it today.
This is some research looking at breast tumours following mammogram:
Interesting isn't it? Elinda x
I have been concerned about my poor diet. I lost my appetite completely during radiotherapy. It's just returning now after two weeks post rads. I listen to my body and have ended up eating quite a high protein diet. Great for healing. I shall now make sure I up my fruit and veg intake and not eat so much rubbish, like chocolate. I have avoided alcohol but haven't really fancied it either. I may have a beer tonight though 8-)
but thats not really got anything to do with the subject that lemongrove was referring to,has it?.it's not about personal choice or where people are "coming" from,its the FACT that the immune system does not recognize some cancer cells and so it doesn't matter how healthy your immune system is,it makes no difference.That is what lemongrove was talking about.Facts are facts at the end of the day.I would of thought that we would have learnt by all the arguments on this and other threads that you don't have to get personal,unless of course your baiting for an argument.
lemongrove your post wasn't there when I posted!surley your not still being moderated!!!
Leadie I don't want to get into an argument with you. I think those of us with cancer have enough on our plates, without that. In any case you are perfectly entitled to your view.
I agree that it's sensible to have a healthy diet, because there is a strong link between obesity and breast cancer, and because there is some evidence that certain foods may trigger/assist cancer to grow (I'm personally quite cautious about red meat, and try to have organic as far as my budget will allow). Also someone who is healthy and strong, will be better placed to cope with treatment.
However, as Stressy confirms, the immune system simply doesn't recognise cancer cells - which is why scientists are trying to develop immunotherapy, to train the immune system to recognise it. So someone can have the best diet and the strongest immune system known to man, and still get cancer (and I'm sure many of the women on this forum would say they were healthy prior to getting cancer).
It's a shame Finty (who started this thread), isn't posting anymore,because she was so knowlegable. But if you look at her earlier posts, you will see that she was fully aware that the immune system doesn't recognise cancer, and was interested in diet for the same reasons as I have mentioned.
I definitely do not regard medical opinion as gospel, and actually take a very critical approach (and in my view, a lot of what is presented as "evidence based medicine", is in truth driven by financial considerations). But as far as I'm concerned, critical thinking doesn't involve the rejection of science per se, it involves taking an overview (for example, how research is carried out, if there are any values underpinning it, what the mode of thought is, and its context). If science can come up with a way to make the immune system recognise cancer that's great isn't it?
lemongrove, I really can't begin to see where you are coming from. You put so much faith in the medical profession for answers and just ignore you own healing abilities.
Stressy thanks for the links, and your comments on immunotherapy.
As far as I'm aware (and you probably know more about this more than me), immunotherapy works by attuning the immune system to recognise cancer cells. My understanding is that scientists genetically modify cancer cells so that the immune system can identify them.
In my opinion,for what it's worth, I think that genetic engineering will eventually provide the answer to this disease. Even now, drugs containing genetically modified virus (like Reolysin), offer the promise of targeting tumours and destroying cancer stem cells from within, while genetially modified cancer cells within immunotherapy offers the hope of a cure (because if the immune system could be trained to recognise cancer cells the game would be over).
I am very caffeine sensitive and used to drink roibois and even that in any sort of quantity acted for me as a stimulant! I believe the anti cancer goodies in real tea are the catechins. I contacted the suppliers of roibois and they told me there were no catechins in it.
So I've switched to having the equivalent of one teabag a day of white tea as it has the least caffeine. I just keep reusing the tea bag or leaves. Sometimes I have a mixture of white and green tea.
I have to say it took a lot of training as green or white tea used to make me gag but I quite like it now.
Further to my previous comment, if you look particularly at pages 7 and 8 you'll see some good soup recipes there. Probably loads more if you have time to search through.
A quick and easy veg juice that tastes nice is carrot and a little apple. Also good with broccoli added in. Juices might though be a bit acidic for your stomach if you're not eating much. Elinda x
I'm sorry to hear you're not feeling able to eat much. I was like that during my treatment and lost 2.5 stone in total (although I needed to!).
I found that having things like vegetable soup really helped although I did make them myself. Although juicing is good because you'll get some vitamins and minerals, you won't get the fibre.
I'm going to bump up the recipe thread because there are some excellent soup recipes on that. Soup is also nice because it's warming in this cold weather.
the other thing is you're not getting any protein in your diet. You could add something like chicken into the soup and blitz it so you have a smooth soup. How about something like boiled eggs too?
Is there a nice cafe near where you're having RT? I found going to one each day after my treatment and having something to eat was a good idea. That way you don't have to prepare any food either and even if it's just a small snack it's something. It also stopped me thinking about my RT and the hospital etc and got me connected back with the world.
My appetite did pick up (too much!) after treatment finished probably about 8 - 12 weeks after. I tried to eat healthily then and not binge on things like cakes and chocolate.
take care, Elinda x
Thanks magda, will go shopping after RT, and try juiceing, need to do this as have dropped 4lb sice sunday,may be will tell RT nurse. even tho they dont really give u time to ask any questions, as they are all very busy. not there fault, so many people there.Let u know how i get on.
Thanks, have a good day
Hi,your right lemongrove the immune system doesn't always recognise cancer cell that is why scientists have developed immunotherapy which stimulate your own immune system to work harder or smarter.This is a quote from the American Cancer Society. "But the immune system is much better at recognizing and attacking germs than cancer cells. Germs are very different from normal human cells and are seen as truly foreign, but cancer cells and normal cells can be very much alike, with fewer clear cut differences. Because of this the immune system may not always recognize cancer cells as foreign. Cancer cells are less like soldiers of an invading army and more like traitors within the ranks of the human cell population. This may be why cancers are often able to grow in spite of a healthy, working immune system."
here is a link to the page.
I juice most days do mean to do it every day but....
I suggest you get a really good juicer that juices veg.
I take a variation of carrots, broccoli , beet root when I can get it, granny smith apples , celery, cucumber, spinach ,
Pineapple peppers ginger . Sounds awful but they are actually quite nice and I put at least 4 or more of the above in.
Drink when fresh and it can taste quite sweet too.
Hope you start to feel better soon.