Trust the authorities??
Recently I had a conversation with someone who works for a large sandwich making firm. All of their chicken is 'sourced in the EEC" as stated on their packaging. Aaahhh yes, it is bought in from Holland - who buy it in from the Far East and South America.
I know some insider info about what happened with the milk powder in China around the time of the Olympics. Very corrupt and put it this way, China is not a good country to buy from.
Ann I completely agree that once you start to look at things closely, almost nothing seems safe, and we're left with very limited choices. Before bc I used to have a rather cavalier attitude to it all - because I was always quite fit and exercised a lot, and ate lots of fruit and veg, I never worried that being overweight was going to cause any serious problems - how wrong I was. And I also congratulated myself on being a very moderate drinker - turns out not moderate enough. Incidentally on the alcohol front, I read yesterday that all the evidence on alcohol risk relates to primary breast cancer, and there doesn't seem to be any specifically on risk of recurrence. I imagine it is the same, but thought it was worth mentioning.
Jane and Gretchen - thanks for that info on nuts - I hadn't really considered the implications of what is done in other countries. I suppose I was trusting the authorities here to not allow such products in - but I imagine that trust is often misplaced.
Hi Wendy. I'm afraid I couldn't find any research at all specifically on TN and dairy. I found this very general Q & A which might have some new info for you:
And this very interesting piece of research that shows that blueberries can inhibit the metastasis of TN breast cancer cells in the lab:
I had said on the closed thread that I didn't think eating a handful of blueberries was going to make much difference to anyone - maybe I spoke to soon (wouldn't be the first time!).
Re the dairy thing - my personal take for what it's worth is that the link is by no means proven, but there is enough of a circumstantial case for me not to want to take the risk of continuing to eat it, particularly as I ate a lot, not being much of a meat eater. At the very least I now eat a much healthier diet (much more fish) and am losing weight, so apart from missing cheese for a while, there is no downside to me.
Ann - don't worry, I'm glad you mentioned it, and it is logical. I will ask my onc, but I'm not that confident that she will know much about it - I suspect it is rather specialised knowledge. I haven't been able to find out anything authoritative myself, just similar comments on other forums. I suppose like a lot of other things, we have to choose the lesser of two evils. It is a concern though, as I still haven't started Femara - my onc wants me to wait until February when I finish Avastin.
Thanks for that info regarding the nuts. I do buy organic nuts and organic anything if it has come from a developing/third world. DET, pesitcide that is banned in Western countries is still sold to poorer countries so is invariably used on their crops. Have to double check but DET is strongly linked to cancer and other issues.
I get an organic, cold pressed, olive oil from Sainsburys, it is delicious. I think it was the Jane Plant book that stated oils should be such to really be of any benefit
Finty, thanks for that re fructose. I'm glad fruit in its raw state is ok, wouldn't like to feel guilty for eating it. Really must cut down on refined sugar though. I've never used refined fructose.
Wendy, nuts: I've been told by a herbalist if there's one thing you should eat organically, it's nuts, especially peanuts. That's because they are very prone to pests and diseases so are grown with many pesticides, especially peanuts as they're on the ground and susceptible to mould. So rather than the shell protecting them, the chemicals are taken up by the growing nut right from the beginning. There's also some discussions about it being the chemicals that cause allergies, rather than the nuts. That's just what I've read and been told, mind!
finty - I didn't want to worry you about the weight loss but I thought you should be aware of the possibility and that it might be something you would like to look into, as you seem to be successfully losing pounds.
This is the problem now, isn't it? Every aspect of life seems to have dangers that we never even considered before.
finty - I read somewhere (can't remember where) that it is not good to lose a large amount of weight (I assume they mean quickly) because it mobilises the oestrogen that is stored in the fat. Maybe you have read about it.
It may be something to bear in mind for anyone on a diet.
Not sure about the article on the virus causing weight gain. When I read it, I had to check that it wasn't 1st April. Perhaps the spread of obesity from coast to coast in the US over the last 20 years coincides with the spread of branches of Kentucky Fried Chicken or McDonalds! Sorry, not meaning to be facetious.
I can't really remember what Plant says about different types of breast cancer - and to be honest I think this thread title is a tiny bit misleading because it's diet issues in general rather than the Plant programme specifically. Having said that I remember her saying she decided not to have Tamoxifen, so I suppose she herself was oe+ve.
I'll do a little digging and see if I can find anything for you.
Hi Ann - yes that's the one - thanks for posting it, not sure why my attempts didn't work. It's a really amazing discovery isn't it? I know it's been rumoured for a while, but I think this is the first time any hard evidence has been found. I'd like to blame my own excess weight on a virus, but given that it is now shifting I suspect the fault lies elsewhere!
finty - Was this the article in the Independent?
I am not sure why you were unable to post the link. If you normally can, it can't be to do with your settings.
I have not read Jane Plant's book but wonder if anyone could tell me if the dairy free diet applies to all types of breast cancer? I am triple negative and I have cut right down on dairy although not cut it out completely - it's the cheese I miss the most!
Elinda I was wondering how far you would have to restrict calories to have an effect, and whether if total calories are low but sugar is almost zero, that would be enough. In the meantime I have lost a pound for the fourth day in a row (7lbs in about 10 days), so if nothing else my weight is moving in the right direction! I can afford to cut calories a lot - I think I could live on my own stored resources for quite a while!
Hi Wendy - I try to always buy organic but it isn't always possible. For instance in Tesco's this morning they didn't even have an organic brown sliced loaf! I bought the unsliced but I know I'll eat far too much of it.
It's a good question about the nuts - I don't know the answer but it makes sense. I suppose it would depend if they are treated after they are shelled, with preservatives maybe?
It's interesting about the cost. I know organic is significantly more expensive especially for fresh produce, but I've cut out so many things I used to eat that I am actually spending less than I used to on groceries (for me that is - the rest of the family make up for it)
Just wondered if those of you who buy organic extend it to everything other than just fruit and veg? For instance as well as fresh produce I buy organic oil, flour, tinned tomatoes, rice, balsamic vinegar, baked beans, soy sauce, mayonnaise, nuts, pulses, etc etc. All of which is a lot more expensive. Also organic shampoo, shower gel and moisturiser. With things like nuts I wondered if it was as important as would they have any chemical residue as they come in shells?
Also read that rinsing fruit and veg in vinegar helps reduce any chemical residue.
On the research re sugar. I also saw a programme on ageing which this mentions. They showed a couple who were on a restrictive diet but to make the difference they had to be on such a low calorie diet as to have to weigh everything and restrict activity.
I couldn't go that far but cutting back is good. As for sugar, it's a daily battle as I always want something sweet but I have cut right back.
I think it depends on your bread machine. Ours has a special paddle for spelt and rye bread, we make it 100% spelt and it cooks in the machine.
Janey - My husband and my neighbour have both made spelt bread by hand but to be honest I found it a bit heavy not something I want to eat on a regular basis. Everyone's taste is different though...
Finty that info on sugar is very interesting. I'd always thought that fructose was better but understand the difference.
If I have anything sweet I always try to have something high fibre around the same time rather than having a sweet snack between meals. I think that helps keep the glycaemic index down.
By fruit sugar do you mean refined fructose, or fructose in it's natural state ie eating the whole fruit?
My understanding (and I am no expert - this is just what I have been able to glean from reading) is that the fructose in fruit is ok, because all the roughage from the fruit means it is absorbed slowly by the body, and you don't then get an insulin spike. I guess if you ate a lot of sugary fruit (grapes etc) it might be more of a problem. I eat dried cranberries every day that have a lot of sugar in them, but eat them with unsweetened meusli and nuts* to try and mitigate the effect. It's why fruit juice is not recommended on a low card diet - you get all the sugar and none of the roughage.
Refined fructose, especially high fructose corn syrup, does seem to be very bad for you - even worse than normal sugar (glucose), and seems to be stored as fat rather than used for energy. It's one of the theories behind the obesity pandemic - because almost all sugar in processed food is now fructose rather than glucose, because it is so much cheaper.
* glad I caught that typo, muesli and nits isn't a very appetising start to the day!
Did you cook the spelt loaf in the breadmaker and use all spelt flour? I bought some spelt flour yesterday and it said to use half spelt and half other bread flour and in breadmaker to do it to the dough stage and then cook in conventional oven.
Good to hear what others are consuming.
Elinda, my mum made a spelt loaf recently without a breadmaker and it was delicious. Maybe not as light as with the equipment, more like a Cranks loaf, but really good.
Does anyone know how fruit sugar compares to refined sugar?
Here's another article about the theory of reducing calorific intake (specifically glucose) to slow down the growth of cancer. The research seems very promising - particularly the last paragraph that says breast cancer cells responded more than any other type tested.
The only thing I'd add to Finty's comments is that I think the more muscle you have the more calories you burn - I was told this but don't know if the thinking is out of date.
Using a bread machine a spelt loaf is really quite cheap but the initial outlay for the machine is quite high. It's probably going to take my husband and I a couple of years to make it financially worthwhile whereas my brother who makes bread every day for him and his childrens' sandwiches will get his money back very quickly.
Had my new green teas arrive yesterday. The one with mint I actually found a little bitter but the other one organic Dragon Well Long Jing was lovely and the least bitter green tea I've tried. It was quite expensive for a small vacuum pack of leaves but they do go a long way.
About the calories in / out business - it is what some researchers seem to be saying now. That you don't literally have to work off all the calories you consume, as was previously thought. It makes sense when you find out that you have to virtually run a marathon to work off a Mars bar! There's nothing more depressing than being on an exercise bike and seeing just how few calories you are burning. Also, not all calories seem to be equal in their effect. The additional benefit of exercise seems to be the way it improves the way we metabolise calories - if you've got the patience to watch it on You Tube there is a long video called "Sugar - The Bitter Truth" that delves into this.
Slightly obliquely, the papers yesterday were full of a new research project that has found a link with obesity and a virus, that they think might explain the obesity epidemic affecting American children. It's a common cold virus that causes immature fat cells to multiply, and children that have had the virus are on average 35 pounds heavier than other kids! I can't post the link because every time I try all I get is the browser toolbar coming up - anyone know what I am doing wrong? Anyway it was in yesterday's Independent among other papers, if anyone is interested.
For anyone with a bread machine can I recommend trying a spelt loaf. It is now the only bread we make, its absolutely delicious as it's not heavy like wholemeal, has a slightly nutty taste and very crunchy when toasted. Apparantly spelt is more nutritious too. It's what bread used to be made from in the past up until medieval times I believe before the wheat we have today. It is a related grain.
I know some women have experimented with making spelt pastry too - haven't tried that yet.
I got a bread machine last year and haven't regretted it. It means you know exactly what goes into your bread, no additives and you can make it entirely organic if you wish. Plus the smell of the bread baking as you wake up is lovely.
I guess veg, fruit, pulses, meat, fish, eggs, carbs with no wheat (oats, rice, couscous) - it's extremely restrictive, but it does work. I do something similar although not as extreme - I have brown bread and a small amount of alcohol. But I am losing 0.5 - 1 pound per day - still a long way to go, but have never had a diet so successful since doing the dreaded cambridge diet in the 80's!
Anyone seen the "Anna Richardson-Body Blitz Diet" Book, five Rules for weight loss, 14 days, no wheat, no dairy, no sugar, no carbs after 6pm, no sugar, no alcohol. Saw it advertised on amazon. She lost 2 stone on it and kept it off.
I also need to get a grip. I didn't put any weight on throughout my treatment (surgery, chemo and radiotherapy) but my weight is steadily increasing - I wasn't light before!!. So any help/advice would be appreciated. A friend and I are going to start Weightwatchers when she returns from holiday in 10 days. I need to loose a couple of stone. My tendancy is to trough when I'm feeling anxious or down in the dumps which seems to happen quite a lot lately.
Thanks for starting this thread, I have lost my way a little just recently diet wise, I have steadily piled on weight since my treatment. I'm always blaming it on the Tamoxifen but it cant be solely responsible. Need a boost to get back on to a healthy eating plan. Like the sound of the flapjacky/brownie things!!
I've been doing some reading about the sugar / cancer issue and found this very interesting research:
Brief summary: It is known that there is a strong correlation with high blood sugar and cancer risk, but there is debate about exactly what the causal relationship is, if any. This research (looking at lung cancer cells) showed that restricting calorie intake by restricting glucose resulted in healthy cells living longer, but pre-cancerous cells died out in large numbers. So in very simplistic terms, cutting out sugar starved the cancer. The researchers were looking at this in relation to the theory that calorie restriction is associated with longer life spans.
I actually delayed chemo to go. It was well worth it for all sorts of reasons. The two days went in a flash. Got loads of information and got to know lots of women in similar situations and had a good laugh. Debx
Hi, it must be the same lady, she had thyroid cancer and is a specialist supporting oncology. Did you enjoy the forum? Swindon was very informative. Glad I went, even though it was straight after my first tax! Hope it's going in ok for you! But it sounds like the message from BCC is quite consistent. Tinaxx
No Tina it was at the Newcastle younger womens forum. But she had also had cancer herself so it may be the same woman. I haven't got the pack with me or I would write her name. I am sitting watching tax 2 going into my veins as I type this.
One thi g she did emphasis was if you use soya milk to make sure it has added calcium- and make sure you have enough magnesium in your system to absorb it. I suppose it makes sense. Debx
Re the green tea, I have definitely found it's worth paying more for the really good stuff. Not only does it have much more of the polyphenols that are meant to help, but it has a much more delicate flavour and none of the bitterness that some of the cheap ones have. You have to let it steep a long time though.
As an example, a cup of Chinese Ti Kuon Yin green tea brewed for 2 minutes will have 9 mg of polyphenols, but a cup of Japanese gyokuro brewed for 10 minutes will have 540 mg!
This lady has a rather inspiring story and sells the premium Japanese sencha tea:
Midge, was that the swindon YWF you refer to? I was there, and the dietician had had cancer herself and the message was pretty much as you pointed out.
Me too i love the discussion on diet and it's really good to hear what other people are doing and info they have on the subject.
Thnaks you ladies.
Hi as one who has struggled a bit to eat and drink the right things I have just found a green tea I can enjoy. It is Taylors of Harrogate Green tea with peach. Despite my sweet tooth I can drink this unsweetened. Really delicious. Good luck to everyone making changes.
As the nutritionist said at the young womens forum every little bit helps. She said that until there is strong evidence on one particular diet the very best things we can do is keep our BMI between 21-25, eat more than 5 potions of fruit and veg a day and vary them- make sure your shopping contains every colour of veg/fruit and limit protein as we tend to eat way to much. Drink 1/2 litres of fluid a day- cut down alcohol as far as we can and give our livers a break completely when we can. She also said lots of other things about portion size and carbohydrates. It was very useful and she made alot of sense- she is an oncology dietician and was talking using the lastest research, so I had a lot of confidence in what she said. It also seemed doable, for someone with 2 little children to feed, in between hospital appointments, chemo and life. If any one has any questions about other things she said please pm me or post a question on here. debx
Hi, girls. I will be popping on here as diet interest me a lot. just been diagnosed with osteoporosis, so even more reason to eat the "right" stuff!
So pleased you have started this thread I never posted on the other one but really found it helpful and informative about diet and agree with Elinda the support on here is invaluble,
Thanks for starting this up Norberte. I was feeling a bit low after what happened on the other thread. I find discussing diet really helpful. I have a tendency to let my new good diet slip so the support on this site is invaluable.
Thanks to Finty's posting on another thread about green tea I've got into that again. I do like to have organic where possible and found another place to order from:: Jing teas.
I've ordered the Dragon Well green tea and the moroccan mint and green tea. Should be here today or tomorrow. If anyone's interested I'll let you know what they're like.