Lemongrove, vinegar, you say? I have no experience with air and wine = vinegar, 'cose usually an open bottle equals an empty bottle.
Must experiment - maybe on Tax I can choke down the red wine. If not, send me your address and I post it to you! 🙂
CM, mobiles and computers should be taken away when one gets p*ssed.
Oh, it wasn't anything to do with cancer, just life. And everybody gets bad weeks now and again. But it's a bit rich when thinking about cancer is a bit of light relief... Haven't had anything stronger than a cup of tea today, so back to my best behaviour.
I have to confess, yesterday evening I deliberately had far more wine than would have been healthy for my driving license. It's not every day, every week or every month, but after the week I've had I'm not going to beat myself up about getting p****d. It was also my one-year anniversary of my first chemo. I would, however, like you to accept my apologies for any random posts that I haven't found yet. (I got an email from a friend today in reply to an email I sent her last night that I didn't even remember sending!)
Haven't actually had a mojito since my holiday in Cuba about 6 years ago. However I am a tad too fond of wine. Instant stress relief etc. So glad white wine is acceptable with rubbish taste buds.
But hey? Was this my fault?
Lots of my friends enjoy a glass of grape juice(!) and they don'y have BC.
But still... all that mint?
Well Scaredofchemo, I think I can deduce that you are not a regular drinker, if you think you can leave an opened bottle of wine sitting on your sideboard until you finish chemo - doesn't wine plus air eventually equal vinegar? Alternatively, maybe you have such a strong drink habit that you don't notice you are drinking vinegar!
If it's the former, I would just like to mention that I'm prepared to receive unopened bottles of wine that peeps dont want, as I'm one of those who does drink - even tea and coffee occasionally !
Have to confess, I am not big on Mojitos. But I think wine qualifies as 'one a day' - it is made of grapes, after all!
I am with superfit on the red front - it tastes wile. I got a bottle of Barolo as a gift, had a taste and it wasn't right. It is sitting on the sideboard, waiting for me to finish chemo.
I had high liverenzymes on my second blood test and was told no booze. I still a very, very occasional glass of white. I could do with a drink or two tonight, it's my first Tax tomorrow and bricking it.
Of course Samos is right, and everything in moderation! I object to anyone or anything trying make me feel 'it was my fault'.
Catherine (Superfit), does the mint count as one of your five a day lol?
Think the key here is as with pretty much everything else in life, is moderation. I think it's well documented that a glass of red wine is good for you, whereas a bottle probably isn't.
I don't intend beating myself up as to why I got bc, fact is I have bc. But i will focus my energies on beating it into submission, and then doing as much as I can to ensure it stays away!
julianna... Here you are again! We think that Mojitos with lots of mint are definitely as healthy as a green smoothie!
Me? have discovered that while red wine tastes like poison on chemo, white wine goes down a treat. Tis the only thing which actually soothes my poor sore throat.
Maybe I should switch to organic wine?
There's a pint of London Pride with my name on it tomorrow evening. After the week I've had I think I have earnt it.
Me too - after a long week I think a large Pinot Grigio at 9pm will be the order of the day. I only have a drink once a week if at all these days.
Yes, I agree the morph-like characters are very patronising, but this is part of the "dumbing down" campaign, of which the BBC are currently the world champions. Just keep watching BBC breakfast and you'll find out what to eat/what not to eat, how much to drink, how to drive, how to blow your nose. And is it just me, or does anyone else hate the adverts about bowel cancer advising people to tell their doctor if there's anything different about their poo? Most intelligent adults know the polite words for sh......t and I've never heard an intelligent adult refer to it as poo.
Also, while I'm having a rant. Never mind drinking, smoking and eating too much, each of which product brings in lots of tax revenue each year, in fact probably much, much more than is spent on operations to fix any health problems they cause - what about the drug users who cost the NHS millions every year and who can't hold down a job because of their habit, so have to have housing benefit, social security, methodone etc etc etc. And every penny they spend on drugs goes to finance the pushers and not one penny goes into the economy.
Oh, God, I need a drink.
OK, perhaps if I give a clearer example of the point I was trying (but clearly failing miserably) to make:
My understanding is that the number 1 risk factor for BC is being a woman. However, 7 out of 8 women will NOT get BC in their lifetime. Meanwhile, more than 300 men are diagnosed in the UK each year and they clearly do not have the number 1 risk factor.
So, the presence of a risk factor does not mean you will get BC any more than the absence of a risk factor means that you are safe from it.
None of us, or our medical teams, know why we, as individuals, have developed BC, so we cannot be to blame. We have enough to deal with just getting through diagnosis and treatment, without having a guilt trip about what we may or may not have done to cause our BC. So I'm off for a glass of wine...Cheers!
I saw the ad with the morph type characters last night and thought it made the public out to be idiots as it was like something from kids TV. I don't think the NHS in Scotland is part of Change4Life as I think it's something else up here (probably every bit as patronising though).
On a lighter note, I was a big fan of the late Quentin Crisp and one of his mantras was "life's a bitch and then you die" which I think is very true, so I may as well just have fun while it lasts and get on with it. When push comes to shove we are all a long time dead and if I want to remind myself of that I only need to have a wander past the local graveyard round the corner from me.
My turn to be pedantic Angelfalls - there's a difference between language and biology.
Just because the English language doesn't have a word for something, or define something in a particular way, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
Language is just the way a particular race/culture describes things. As a linguist you will know that language is a fluid thing - it changes and evolves.
I think I need another G&T after that!
Sorry to be pedantic, but I'm a linguist, so can't help myself...!Here's the Oxford English Dictionary's definition of "breast":
"1 either of the two soft, protruding organs on the upper front of a woman’s body which secrete milk after childbirth: Caroline crossed her arms over her breasts [as modifier]: breast cancer
2 a person’s chest, especially when regarded as the seat of the emotions: wild feelings of frustration were rising up in his breast her heart was hammering in her breast
3 the part of a bird or mammal that corresponds to a person’s chest: [as modifier]: the breast feathers of the doves
4 a joint of meat or portion of poultry cut from the breast of a bird or mammal: Lisa popped a breast of chicken into the microwave
5 the part of a garment that covers the chest: [as modifier]: a breast pocket".
So we'll have to agree to disagree on men having breasts. But I entirely agree that it is not our fault that we have BC.
Now, back to the original thread which I believe was about the dangers of the demon drink...
Maybe I have not read as much research on what is causing cancer as whoever created the advert (by the way, I am in Denmark and have not seen the ad) BUT, I thought no one knows what is causing cells to turn cancerous? They do the 'usual suspects' - drinking, smoking, eating the wrong thing, stress but best to my knowledge, no one could prove it does.
My auntie never smoked, never had a drink, ate the right things, exercised and got liver cancer at 38.
A nun I used to know smoked, drank and in general had a good time and she lived to be 93 and died of a stroke in her sleep.
But I am sure I could get examples where people were drinking and had cancer.
I am a drinker and a smoker and wrong thing eater (jeez! That rhymes!) but I refuse to feel it is my fault I have cancer!
And Angelfalls? Men have breasts ...
So let me see if I have this right. I was diagnosed Jan 2011, SNB Feb 2011 (neg), mx right breast Mar 2011, chemotherapy finished oct 2011 then brca1 & 2 test neg. Must admit to drinking too much in the past and prob still do. Does this mean I am more at risk of getting bc in my left breast? By the am drinking a glass of red while writing this.
Yes, Choccie Muffin, I realise all of that, but how many times have you heard men's breast tissue referred to as breasts? Other than if they have 'man boobs', of course!
I was referring to Scotianne's post which says "My BCN said the only definite risk factor in getting BC was the fact I had breasts". I am aware men have breast tissue, get BC and go through the same treatments for it, but they do not have breasts.
Angelfalls, men might not have large breasts but they most definitely have some breast tissue. (What is a nipple if not breast tissue?) The treatment for male BC often includes mastectomy just as it sometimes does for women, and often Tamoxifen as well.
Looks like there is more dedicated research going on regarding this subject. Is anyone enrolled in this study?
But the men who get BC don't even have the risk factor of having breasts... And risk factors are NOT the same as causes.
None of us are to blame - you could only be blamed if you knew before the event what would cause your cancer and went ahead and did it anyway. Anybody fit that category? Thought not!!!
I went through the guilt thing when first diagnosed. Why me. Then my friend who has ovarinan cancer and is also having chemo looked at me and said why not you.
My BCN said the only definate risk factor in getting BC was the fact I had breasts, which helped me put things into persective. I did cut back on alcohol after dx as it made me miserable and tearfull. Now it just tastes like vineger. White wine tastes better than red.
My oncologist's reply to the 'can I drink wine?' question was 'Yes, but not expensive wine because you won't be able to taste it'.
My lovely surgeon 'prescribed' a large glass of red the night before my surgery.
I know I have been guilty of drinking too much wine in recent years. That has helped me with periods of great stress and anxiety. Exercise would probably have been better. Feel very worried that I may have 'caused' my BC. But there is nothing I can do about it now and I too hate those adverts.
Wine tastes like rubbish nowadays anyway..
When I went to see my Onc last week he asked the usual questions - do you smoke [NO,never] and do you drink to which I went very quiet. I work full time in quite a demanding job and have a glass of wine with my evening meal and then usually a couple before bed time to unwind - otherwise I seem to lay in bed with the days problems floating around. He told me I didnt have to explain myself, with what I was going through I was entitled to a drink whenever I wanted at whatever time of the day...
Sometimes I do feel a little guilty that I over indulge but never imagined it could be linked to my little 'squatter'. Start Chemo in 2 days time and obviously my glass can stay in the cupboard for a while, this could be the start of a new me !!!!
I'm not sure what this says about my personality, but I saw the said advert yesterday afternoon, and by 6.30pm was sipping a glass of white.
I haven't had a drink for weeks, but there is something about those patronizing little plasticine figures that look like they are based on Morph from that kids TV show that used to be on (and I don't remember him being a patronizing goodie-goodie.....).....And together with the Big Brother message.......grrrrrr. I do not think for ONE SECOND that the average drinker is going to see that ad, and have some sort of an epiphany, and go and pour their Chardonnay down the sink. What is more likely is that it just adds to peoples' perception that if you are suffering from a cancer diagnosis, it must somehow, be your fault.
I too think there's a tad of scaremongering in these ads.
i purposely asked my Onc about her opinion on alcohol, her answer being "If it makes you happy" She is of the Belt and Braces Brigadw and was thoroughjy expecting a total lecture and words of forbodding.
Does anyone know if there has been a study of alcoholics? this would seem a good and simple way to prove the theory. afterall. if just 2 glasses of wine a week can cause it those that are unfortunately addicted and drinking much more everyday must surely have bc in spades. They will all have it!
Sometimes these public health messages don't quite do what they're supposed to. Anyone remember the "Don't die of ignorance" message about HIV in the late 90s? As a consequence of that, a lot of people who had indulged in risky behaviour got so frightened they didn't get themselves tested, so the result was much less of a reduction in cases than expected. And now that HIV is more like a chronic disease that can be treated for many years, people are still completely terrified by the prospect.
Have now seen the offending advert on TV by the government to stop people from drinking too much and frightening people with such awful diseases like ours, I'm sure they just threw BC in there to terrify younger women out there who might enjoy going out and having a few too many, I remember (long long ago) when I was a young free and single woman going out 3 nights a week and drinking too much BUT that lasted from the age of about 18 - 22 then after a particularly heavy night out on Gin I decided to stop and have been TT ever since now aged 44, cannot believe the period of time I just talked about is too blame for my getting BC now, I quite simply do not agree.
I'm with Katytc on this one and couldn't of said it any better so I repeat ' I absolutely refuse to blame myself for my bc, I was just like many others, unlucky'.
Love and light to all
Well, I presume as we're all here (!)its the prevention of the darn thing coming back/another primary, that's the issue. There's a big difference in life-style factors for the general population and actually doing something evidence-based to prevent the above in those who've already had it. It needs to be more nuanced, as the weekend message about alcohol "causing breast cancer" shows. The message seems to be coming from the alcohol prevention health lobby, and chucking in bc as well as some other diseases people have actually heard of, may cause young women to think - yes, this message applies to me. I would be beyond upset if a son/husband threw that one at me personally.
Unless I've completely misunderstood,there are a lot of life-style similarities with chaps and prostate ca ... so ditto alcohol etc.
I'm not sure personally about the alcohol thing, as hardly drank at all, but am carrying too much fat. What I've noticed is that I cannot combine drink and Arimidex. Even a small glass of wine is enough to make me feel truly awful. If anyone has any insights into why this happens, I would be pleased to understand it better. K x
I too am almost TT, very occasionally drink alcohol and have been like that for years and years.
I think it is very easy to get caught up in the "blame game".
Alcohol was not the cause of my bc, therefore do I start to beat myself up about my liking for sugary snacks, polishing my house, wearing deodorant, breastfeeding my children, the list goes on and on....
As already stated moderation is the key word not just regarding bc but for everything in life! There has to be some fun.
I absolutely refuse to blame myself for my bc, I was just like many others, unlucky xx
This is always a difficult one isn't it? On the one hand I like to know if there is anything I can do, however small, to reduce the risk of recurrance. On the other hand, it can lead others to become judgemental when really there isn't a cause and effect with most lifestyle things only a statistical increased risk. Also it does feel like a burden of responsibility at times - don't do this, do that and then don't get stressed with it all.
I am virtually teetotal but have a drink if I want. I gave up drinking during chemo as I couldn't face it (or much else come to that) and afterwards it tasted so strong that I've never gone back to regular drinking.
I have relaxed my attitude quite a bit in the last couple of months to all things drink and diet related though. The reason is that I found worrying about every single thing I ate or drank was increasing my stress and anxiety. So somehow it's finding a balance between not going over the top with the things but not making life so restrictive it takes away all pleasure.
And, well said to you too, Kathleen.
Yes, life is for living and for enjoying. We can't change our past, but we can make some changes to our current and future lifestyles, but without becoming paranoid. We can all try and avoid a reoccurance, only to find that we succumb to something else that life decides to throw at us. Life is full of ifs, ands & buts, but we still get out of bed in the morning and run the risk of a star falling out of the sky onto our heads, now don't we?
Just a word of advice though, try and catch the star before it hits you and make a wish - it could be your lucky star!!!
Cheers to you all
Well said Mazzalou! We start with the genes we inherited ,we grow up in an environment over which we have very little control, we make lifestyle choices without knowing the consequences and we are subject to stresses over which we have no control. I've spent my life trying to avoid carcinogens but I'm a sugar addict since childhood and have drunk my fair share of wine since I retired. Millions of women do the things we have all done and never get cancer. No-one in all the generations of my family I can trace has ever had breast cancer and there are plenty of women on both sides of my family tree.
Whatever choices we all make in the future, life is for living. I'm going to eat more healthily and drink little from now on. If I ever have energy again I'll exercise a bit more! But I'll also try to enjoy every day from now on and worry less about things I can't change.
Onwards and upwards.
Mmmm - so maybe my liking of red-wine might explain why I've succumbed to breast cancer, but because it is good for the heart then this also explains why my MUGA scan readings for herceptin are well into the high 80's which I am told is excellent!
Sorry for being so cynical, but if life was only black and white then it would be easy to pin-point the cause of breast cancer, but I'm afraid that life is in shades of grey, and unfortunately some of us draw the short straw and end up with breast cancer.
We are not single celled organisms, but complex beings living in a highly complex world.
If the causes of BC were as straight-forward as this never-ending list of risk factors would have us believe, we would have had a cure years ago. It seems to me that research is currently at a stage where the more we learn, the less we understand. A nutritionist/dietician at my local cancer centre told me "everything in moderation" and that's what I go with. After that, in my opinion, it's just down to luck. But each of us has to do what feels right for us.
Recently attended an open evening in our Breast Unit hosted by the local breast surgeons & multidisciplinary team getting an update on current treatment standards, future developments, nutrition etc. The consultant in charge concluded his presentation saying that patients got the best treatment available to give them the best possible outcome and that he wanted patients to see that based on all current evidence patients had, what he called "their bit" to do as well to achieve and support this by adhering to treatment plans and take into consideration certain personal lifestyle choices in respect of alcohol, weight & exercise, dividing this into categories of "the risk factors you cannot change" & "lifestyle related risks". I agree, lemongrove, more research is needed to understand recurrence&metastasis. I feel very unsettled thinking that my medical team may scrutinise my lifestyle should I have a recurrence!
(1)Chinook, sorry, but to be so blunt, your son should be ashamed of himself. Blaming you for causing your own Breast Cancer, when nobody knows what causes it is absolutely disgusting in my view. He should be supporting you, rather than judging you.
(2) The main reason I have replied to this thread is that it got me mulling over the thinking behind statistics like these. It made me wonder if this tendency scientists seem to have, of trying to quantify everything, and look for patterns in cancer is really achieving anything. It seems to me, that cancer strikes, re-strikes, and behaves on a very random basis (for example on another thread, two women talk about recurrence after 17 and 19 years respectively), so wouldn't it be more useful to try and work out why it behaves in this way. I just think that if scientists are going to crack cancer, it will involve a real paradigm shift.
As I said, all things in moderation and each to their own. Apparently if I drink beer rather than wine that could be better and if I'm post-menopausal or overweight then the effects of wine might be worse. These are "inferential" statistics and we can "infer" rather too much from them which I tend to think just worries rather than helps people, particularly as other determinants such as stress or "bad luck" may also factor into the regressions.
I am off for a well-earned glass of wine... I drink but moderately, never smoked, am fairly young, fit and have no apparent genetic link but I still got bc xx