68564members
360635posts
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

161 REPLIES 161
Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Sense about science is a good website

http://www.senseaboutscience.org/resources.php/11/ive-got-nothing-to-lose-by-trying-it

They do this booklet about pseudoscience adverts that pray on the vulnerable
Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Cucumber12 ,i couldnt agree more with you the China Study was a contradiction in itself!. I get always quite alarmed about the misleading info online re Diet and BC, and even moreso when these stories find their way into the mainstream media, twice in the last few weeks alternative diets/therapies have been reported in the press, one such story which claimed cancer fighting properties for a number of foods called "Do Cancer Alternatives Realy Work?" in the Daily Express which actualy contained so many factual inaccuracies that CRUK decided to write to the paper with their concerns. Unfortuneatly (and shame on the Daily Express) they declined to publish the letter.

http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2012/12/07/alternative-cancer-treatment-claims-in-the-media-are-damaging-and-misleading/

The media realy do need to get responsible in their reporting ,instead of writeing this kind of very irrisponsible and damageing stuff concerning cancer patients!
Linda x
Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

I am going to try the 2 day diet when finish rads (hopefully towards end Feb). It has been developed by Dr Michelle Harvie who is a research dietitian at the Genesis Breast Cancer Prevention Centre, University Hospital South Manchester Trust.


I have no idea if it will work but I am a failed serial dieter (tried all fad diets and normal ones and never manage to stick to them) and figure that it I can manage two low cal days a week I will have more chance - nothing to lose and it is a sensible diet with normal food.


I have also seen some US reasearch that supports this approach and I cant see any harm in two low cals days when some people do lighterlife which is 7 day low cal (can't see me doing that one!).


I have pre-ordered the book which comes out during Feb but there is a lot on the web about it.


Will let you know how I get on.


Jayne x
Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

I have read the China Study and as a research scientist can not condone it. I think it's TOXIC and would not listen to a word of it.
For exampe the aflotoxin study:
The graphs have no scale and the amount the alfotoxic fed to rats is so huge it cannot be related to what would be expected in a normal diet. After looking at the actual data from the China study and reading other reviews on it I think the only reason it was written was to turn people vegan. The science doesn't stand up - I would recommend you use it as a door stop only.
Most research papers I have read on diet and breast cancer show no link between diet. There is a link with excess alcohol and BC, being overweight and gaining weight in adulthood. I would suggest you just eat a good healthy diet. Third of the plate veg - not too much meat each week, lots of fibre etc, and if you fancy one the odd glass of wine.
Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Thanks for that Ann - although we have been discussing oestrogen it is not my particular concern with dairy - it is the IGF's. I would also apply the same scepticism to this information as you apply to any from the alternative therapy view (although I would always call it complementary not alternative). I know the diary industry is very aggressive in dealing with these issues - I would need to know that any organisation giving this information had zero connection with dairy or farming - do you happen to know if this is the case?
finty

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

G'day from Australia. I take a ginger supplement 'Biohawk' which I think is only available in Oz, but there probably is something similar available in the UK.

You might be interested to read/listen to this MP3 file :
http://www.abc.net.au/local/audio/2010/02/19/2824896.htm

It seems that cancer expression requires an autoimmune response and the greatest autoimmune response comes from food intolerance. Asians on Western food have a high incidence of cancer. Asians on traditional non-western food are healthy and the incidence of cancer is very low.

Makes you think, doesn't it? I only wish I knew about this years ago!

All the best to everyone
xxx

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Thanks for the advice. Will see how I get on with the mastic gum etc. Never thought about hiatus hernia - would it not be more chronic though?. I am sure the jaw pain is referred pain but can't think what the origin is other than the chest pain. I wonder if it's trapped air.
Ann - thanks for the reassurance on dairy.
alex
x

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

finty - Getting back to oestrogen and dairy, I received another reply from the Veterinary Medicines Directorate. They have been very helpful. I queried their response about it being destroyed by gastric acid in the stomach and cited HRT/the Pill. I was told that as the oestrogen produced by the cow is a natural hormone, it is sensitive to the digestive process (and largely inactivated by the liver), whereas the oestrogen in the Pill is synthetic and formulated to survive the digestive process. I was also told that naturally produced progesterone is equally sensitive to the digestive process.

I hope that reassures anyone who wants to continue eating dairy products.

Ann x

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Elinda - Thank you for your kindness. It didn't just happen to my grandmother. A few years later, when my mother-in-law had a stroke, the same thing happened but in this case my sister-in-law, who was a nurse, insisted that she was put on a drip. She did die anyway, but presumably not from dehydration. Up until these events, I had absolutely no idea that it was common practice. Like you, I find it abhorent.

Ann x

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Alex

the chest pain sounds like it could be acid reflux. This can be a symptom of a hiatus hernia or it could be it's taking a while to heal up in your stomach/oesophagus after your h pylori infection. I would go back to the doctor if you're still getting symptoms as it may be that you need something like lansoprazole to reduce acid production for a while to help the area have a chance to heal.

I haven't had the jaw pain but this could be referred pain. It could possibly relate to the acid although I've not heard of it particularly. I don't know if you get any neck stiffness at all as that can cause pain in the jaw? Or it might be that you're in pain with the acid and grinding your teeth in the night before you wake up with it?

Ann - I can't say how strongly I feel about the treatment your grandmother received. I remember having a furious argument with a doctor about that when I was a student nurse. To me it goes against the code of conduct for nurses. You've been through an awful lot Ann.

take care all
Elinda x

Highlighted
Guest
Not applicable

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Hi Alex,I'm not sure if this helps but thought I would mention it, my friends mum had a Hiatus hernia and one of her symptoms along with heartburn and reflux was chest pain when she laid down or bent forward.She was having the symptoms for a couple of years before her GP finally sent her for tests.She's all sorted now and has no more problems,I can't remember what treatment she had.

Best wishes Mel xx

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Elinda - Thank you for your kind words. I agree about poor treatment for older people. I am not sure that applied to my Mum, as she had acid problems as long as I can remember, so she wasn't always old. To be fair, I don't think Losec was around to start with and she wasn't one to make a fuss, so may not even have mentioned it to a doctor. If they did not ask when she developed kidney stones, she probably didn't mention it. Later, when she had breast cancer, she belonged to BUPA, so age wasn't a problem - other than for the cost!

However, I was appalled when my grandmother had a stroke and I discovered that the medical profession just let old stroke victims die, without even putting them on a fluid drip. I didn't find out until after she had died, but I thought it barbaric - nothing short of murder, really.

On a brighter note, I am glad you have found something to help you.

Alex - I haven't come across the symptoms you describe but the chest pain could be the acid reflux, couldn't it?

Hope you both have a good night. Take care.

Ann x

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Hi all

Elinda - Re gastric reflux, I get quite a lot of problems with my stomach. Tested positive for h.pylori a few months ago and had anti biotics but still get aggravation often. I get one worrying symptom but doc never even acknowledged when I told her. Occasionally - thankfully not too often, I wake up in the night with a pain in my chest and in the right side of my jaw. It's awful, feels like something pressing on a nerve. If I sit up for a wee while or take liver salts it passes. Have you (or any of the ladies) ever had that? Stomach problems are miserable - you never feel really well when you have them. I bought a supplement called mastic gum to try and I take liver salts quite a lot. alex

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Ann - I'm so sorry to hear about your mother and all she went through. I'm not surprised you raised the losec issue and I'm grateful that you thought of it for me. I think it's sometimes hard to get across how awful acid reflux is and how debilitating it can be.

I hate to say it but I do think as people get older they don't always get the same treatment, I've been noticing this with my mum who is 75. It's as though sometimes they think that older people should just put up with problems. I'm sure that's not all doctors but it is an issue with some. I don't know how old your mum was but perhaps that was a factor.

I think because I'd had breast cancer they were more careful so I had a gastroscopy quite soon. The problem is that it's hard to find something that really works and lansoprazole and that family of meds all have side effects (for me). Rather bizarrely the digestive mix which is only seeds and herbs combined in India is working. I was so sceptical but thought I'd give it a go and I've felt better the last two days than I have for months! It's nothing hi-tech but things like fennel, flax, sesame, liquorice and others.

And yes, I've had my thyroid checked and it's fine thankfully.

take care and thanks, elinda

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Elinda - I'm sorry if you thought I was interfering, as you are already taking Losec. It's a sore point with me - excuse the pun. It's just that my Mum suffered for so long before being given it. I believe it caused her demise in the end and, looking back, I don't think the medical profession saw the whole picture. She used to take loads of indigestion tablets because of the acid reflux, which I think contributed to kidney stones. They removed part of her para-thyroid gland because they said she was producing too much calcium, and then had to take calcium daily as they took away too much. I doubt she was ever asked about her calcium intake prior to the op. When she was dx with breast cancer, it had already spread to her bones. I believe they had been weakened by too little calcium by then and they started to crumble. The medics were never able to tell me whether she had osteoporosis or not, but I do not think she would have had the same problems if she had been given Losec earlier and not had her parathyroid reduced. Sorry for rant.

I listened to Jayney on Steve Wright's programmes and ended up getting her book. This was before bc and I never really read it all. I must get it out again.

The only other thought regarding weight loss is, have they checked your thyroid function? I am sure they will have done, but it is just a thought.

Ann x

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Thanks Ann. This has got me thinking. I'm sure I have enough calories and think that because I'm still getting a lot of fatigue I'm just not active enough. Although I go for a walk every day I think I'm slower in my every day life if that makes sense and not doing enough to burn off what I eat.

I'm on omeprazole and domperidone and gaviscon but can't keep it under control. I'm speaking to my GP again on Monday about it. It's so weird because I'd never even had indigestion before the chemo. I went to a food fayre yesterday and bought a digestive mix made by a company called Conscious food. It contains various things like fennel seeds, flax, liquorice, mint etc and I'm going to see if that helps.

I wondered whether any of you have seen the website, "imperfectly natural". It has news, articles and places to buy things etc. That's where I found Organnics of Rye where I get my cosmetics and skin cream. Also got quite a good detailed article on sugar and sugar substitutes. Here's the link:
http://www.imperfectlynatural.com/
The downside is that it's not that user friendly and has a lot of advertising but there is a link to Janey's natural store which has products.

take care all
Elinda x

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Alex - Thanks. I'll have another look.

Elinda - Is it possible you are not getting enough calories? The body goes into 'starvation' mode if the intake is too low, so as to preserve its resources. That's one reason people find it hard to lose weight when on a diet.

As far as the acid reflux goes, could your GP prescribe Losec?

"Losec (omeprazole) is a drug used to treat stomach ulcers and gastric reflux."

My Mum was prescribed Losec, after years of acid indigestion and it made a huge difference. I know how unpleasant it can be, having had acid reflux when pregnant.

Ann x

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Ann - please don't think I was having a go about what you said. It just made me realise how frustrated I was feeling about my weight gain. I've never eaten so little in my whole life and keep having episodes of vomiting from acid reflux but the weight goes on...

I do think though that having the most nutritious diet possible (from the evidence we have at the moment)and reducing chemical load is important not just physically but mentally too. I feel that it gives me some power back. Perhaps I'm deluding myself but then again maybe it will make a difference.

One thing I do know is that having had cancer has been a big wake up call for me and has had a ripple effect. My husband, several friends etc have changed their diets, taken up more exercise etc. I've mentioned on threads before that my husband follows the same diet as me which does exclude dairy and red meat and his previously high cholesterol has dropped right down.

take care all
Elinda

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Hi All
Ann04 just thought I'd mention - the book "The diet delusion" is absolutely choked full of scientific evidence. I do agree with you that it all gets very confusing and I think we all make our own decisions and then see how we feel after changes.
I try to eat mostly what I see as a healthy diet nowadays, i.e. nuts, berries, meat, fish, poultry, cruciferous veggies, salad veggies, cabbage etc. I include some 'fattening' foods like cream, cheese and mayonnaise, and try to have turmeric and black pepper mix every day. I have recently started using supplements as well and even controversial stuff such as zeolite. I feel really well, and I exercise every day but am overweight and can't seem to reduce.

I think if you try something and feel really well you should trust that feeling. Although I am far from extreme in my diet I know I will absolutely minimise processed foods and sugar for the rest of my life.
alex 🙂

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound sanctimonious! I realise that it is not always a case of willpower.

Ann x

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Another interesting thread on diet. I'd also be keen to know what the cancer nutritionist has to say and how much they base on research.

I used to think that I'd never put on weight as I was always slim. I couldn't understand then how people could let themselves get overweight - if I put on a few pounds I cut back and that would be it. That was until I developed endometriosis and once I started hormone treatment for that the weight piled on. I don't think that it is a simple case of willpower for everyone. Weight gain can be a side effect of medications much as constipation or hot flushes etc. It's not the same for everybody.

I agree with you Finty about cutting out sugar. It's in so many things now it's quite scary. I was completely obsessive about it at first but now am a bit more relaxed and have some occasionally.

My diet since diagnosis has been fantastic - lots of veg, not much meat etc. I have no alcohol, no fatty food and as I'm suffering badly with acid reflux can only have small meals. I also go for at least a 30 minute walk each day. But I'm putting on weight again! My Onc says its the tamoxifen.

Elinda

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

finty - Please let us know what the cancer nutritionist has to say about anything you ask.

I am finding that there is so much confusion, controversy, etc about absolutely everything we consume that I am starting to think there really is nothing totally safe to eat nowadays. All the books are loaded one way or another, are out of date by the time they are published and most of them are written purely for making money (understandably). Regarding the book you mentioned, The Diet Delusion, have you read the reviews on Amazon? Read the highest starred one and the lowest. They completely disagree. I believe that if a person wants to keep to a healthy weight strongly enough, they will eat appropriately. Fortunately, I don't have a sweet tooth, I do have willpower and have never had a problem with my weight.

I have become totally cynical and the only things I find credible are the actual results of scientific studies, not here-say, but nowhere is it all brought together and it is changing all the time as more research is carried out.

It would be SO lovely to be able to receive good, scientifically grounded, reliable advice from the medical profession or nutritionists, but to be honest, I do not believe that any are adequately qualified to offer advice, because no-one really knows the whole story.

So, it all boils down to us finding our own way, which is very scary.

Ann x

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Hi Ann

Re butter substitute - I don't really use a spread. If I am making a sandwich I will use a non-dairy mayo or just houmous on it's own, and on the rare occasions that I have toast I'll have something like peanut butter that doesn't need a spread (and oddly doesn't contain butter!). I used to eat this way before, so it isn't much of a problem for me.

Re the milk - it is very hard to know, and thanks for pursuing it. I am going to the Penny Brohn centre in October and you get a consultation with a cancer nutritionist so it will be one of many questions that I will be asking.

I've become more and more interested in the sugar issue - there was some more research out this week connecting sugar (specifically High Fructose Corn Syrup) to some cancers. I think sugar addiction is a serious issue anyway - my 15 year old son is an addict, specifically sweet drinks - and we have endless fights over trying to limit it. I've also started reading a very lengthy tome - the Diet Delusion - that is all about studying the evidence (original research) for diet theories, and comes to the conclusion that refined sugar and flour are the route of all health evils, much more so than dietary fat. It's very interesting - and I am fairly sure that it is cutting out sugar that has made the difference to my appetite and the lack of cravings - I have never found it this easy to stick to a diet.

finty x

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

finty - I finally received a reply from defra. Well, actually, they passed it onto the Veterinary Medicines Directorate. They did also say that the oestrogen in milk was very low (around 2 picograms per millilitre) but thought that it would be destroyed by gastric acid. Not sure about this, since obviously HRT manages to get through. Maybe it is the fact that there is a large quantity of HRT and whilst some may be destroyed, enough gets through, but if the initial amount is very small, then it doesn't. Who knows?

Ann x

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

finty - Thank you for your list of foods you eat. Can I ask what you have as a substitute for butter on your bread, etc? Looking at all the other spreads available in the shops, they all seem to have chemicals or other undesirables in them, even the olive oil ones.

Ann x

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

You could countact Breast Cancer Haven who will book you in to see one of their Nutritional therapists who specialise in breast cancer. the appointment is free and can be done on the phone if you don't live close to one of their centres.
http://www.breastcancerhaven.org.uk/help.php?parent=403

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Ann - regarding the sugar, I don't think fruit in sugar is a problem, unless you were eating ridiculous amounts. Our bodies need some glucose and my understanding is that taking it in the form of fruit is the best possible way. Natural fruit gives you less of an insulin spike than fruit juice for instance, because of the fibre you are eating with it. To lower the insulin spike even further - you need to eat fruit with some fat and protein. I tend to eat more than half my fruit intake (the berries) with nuts - so that fits the bill perfectly - fibre, fat and protein. I also spread it throughout the day in small amounts, so I think it's ok.

I guess the best evidence that it doesn't give me an insulin spike is that I very rarely feel hungry - that feeling you get coming down from an insulin high. You would have to know me to realise how remarkable that is - I am very greedy! (Many, many, many years ago I was a serious sportswoman - and when I stopped training I unfortunately didn't lose the appetite for the huge amount of calories you can consume when training intensively.) It has been amazing to me, and very unexpected, that a largely vegan diet can have this affect - and I think it is mainly due to cutting out virtually all refined sugars.

Regarding the oestrogen - I just don't know what the effect of even small amounts of oestrogen in milk can have, and how much you have to consume to notice the effect. But absent some evidence, I have just decided to be cautious - if oestrogen is driving my cancer, I would rather not introduce any more, even if it's a very low dose. I think all these things are very marginal anyway - unfortunately we just don't know where the margin is!

The letrazole will be interesting - I am hoping that having already gone through the menopause, the se's won't be too severe - I don't know if there is any logic to that, but I can hope! I made an interesting discovery the other day - that grape seeds act in the same way as letrazole as a powerful aromatase inhibitor - in rats! So maybe I'll slip some of those into my unsweetened muesli too!

Good luck

finty xx

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Thanks Linda - you too. And I wholeheartedly agree about the chemicals - it bothers me enormously too. I'm only just starting down that road so have a lot to learn - I've made the start with toiletries, but I know there's a lot more I should be doing.

Your study sounds interesting - I'll check it out. My fear with these sorts of studies though is that they look at so many factors that it is hard to decipher what the results mean. I guess it's much easier to look at a single variable - alcohol, exercise or whatever - something as complex as diet or exposure to chemicals would seem very hard to isolate as cause and effect.

Good luck to you all too.

finty xx

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

finty - My comment about sugar was not directed just at refined sugar but fructose, etc, from the 'loads of fruit' that you say you are eating.

The other comment I wanted to make was about oestrogen in milk. It must be extremely low because I definitely have side effects of low/no oestrogen, having stopped HRT and now I am taking Letrozole, although I drink milk and do not actively seek foods containing phyto-oestrogens. I shall be interested to learn how you get on with Letrozole.

If/when I get a reply from DEFRA, I shall let you know.

Other than that, like we all say, the debate will go on and on. Good luck with whatever you choose to do. I do respect your views, as I am sure you respect those who do not necessarily share them.

Ann x

Highlighted
Guest
Not applicable

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Hi Finty,
I have realy enjoyed the debate too , so thanks to you and all the other ladies , ive certainly learned some things so thats always a good thing, you are right in that it is nigh impossible to get the proof that some of us would like, its so frustrating sometimes to know whether we are doing the right thing or not. i guess for me i tend to worry about and focus more on the enviromental chemical issues at the minute because so much of our stuff contains carcogenics these days.

Im taking part in Breakthroughs Generations Study,which i hope will eventualy give us some answers, this particular study involves over 100,000 women and is looking at Lifestyle/Enviroment/Hormonal/Genetics ect the study is unique in that it will continue to give information for the next 40yrs and beyond, though the first results on breast cancer causes they say will be ready much sooner than that, proberly in a few yrs time. So im hopeing we may start to get some answers to the causes of breast cancer from that.

Anyway, i want to wish everybody all the best on this thread whichever route they personaly take with this desease and thanks again for all the interesting links and information.
Linda x

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Mel I do understand your comment about your friends' dad whose cancer didn't progress for 9 years - so how do you know whether a diet works. But that is why you have control groups to compare against - when one groups does significantly better than the other and the only difference is diet, you have your answer. And a multiple of 8 is beyond significantly better - it's incredible!

I Think I'll leave it now too - thanks for the back and forth - I've enjoyed it.

finty x

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Sorry Linda, I misinterpreted your comment. Still, if only 3 from a study of 93 gave up (I don't know what the split between active and control was) - I don't see much of a problem. I wonder what the average fall out from studies such as these is?

In terms of the use of the words "may" - scientific research is always couched in extremely cautious terms, with good reason. Saying diet MAY play an important apart in keeping prostate cancer at bay is actually pretty striking.

Obviously it would be wonderful if longer terms studies were conducted, but whatever Lichtenfeld wants surely it's clear that a study such as this won't ever happen on more aggressive tumours? It would be totally unethical to allow such a study on anyone with an aggressive cancer - and who in their right mind would agree to take part? Anyone with an aggressive cancer is going to be advised to receive conventional medicine. There are in fact a very small number of people who do reject the treatment and try a diet based treatment - some people have claimed remarkable success, but then this falls in the anecdotal evidence category, and is interesting but worthless scientifically - and always dismissed out of hand by the sceptics. You can't win!

I think the fact that the tumours were slow growing and early stage doesn't undermine the findings at all, and it doesn't matter that many in this group may survive their cancer anyway - it proves that all things being equal those on a vegan diet did better at this stage in their disease in all respects than those on the control diet. That is an astounding finding. It just doesn't prove that diet can help in late stage cancer. But again, we will NEVER have that proof, because you can't experiment on people with late stage cancer. So it's pointless for people to say this is promising but lets wait for more research before acting on the evidence - you're not going to get it, this is as good as it gets!

It is undeniable that none in the vegan group saw their cancer progress (PSA levels fell), but all in the control group saw their PSA levels rise and 6 had sufficient progression to require chemo or RT. This study is clearly shorter than one would like, and cannot say anything about what would happen after the one year of study. But the link in that year is CLEARLY ESTABLISHED - the serum from the vegan diet cohort had EIGHT TIMES the ability of the control group (70% vs 9%) to destroy cancer cells.

Highlighted
Guest
Not applicable

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Finty, the comment about things being too difficult in my earlier post was not my view, it was quoted by Lichtenfeld about that particular study as the reason that 3 men pulled out because it was very strict and difficult to follow, the study was conducted in 2005 ,5 yrs on many men are still dying of prostrate cancer, the study concluded that the strict diet and lifestyle change "May" play an important role in keeping prostrate cancer at bay , but at the same time the study was conducted on men with early low agressive slow growing cancers and according to my oncoligist these types of tumours can be present for many many years and for some people they would be that old that they would die of other causes before the cancer would ever kill them.
Lichtenfeld says further studies still need to be done, for a proven link to be established they would need to conduct much larger studies with a lot longer follow up and not just on less aggressive tumours.
Linda x

Highlighted
Guest
Not applicable

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Maybe worthless was not the right word.My friend's dad hasn't changed anything in his diet I think the only thing he did was to drink pomegranate juice and his cancer didn't progress for 9 years.I'm not saying that changes don't work,how would I know that 🙂

think I might leave this now.

Mel xx

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Linda I only made the comment about things being too difficult because this was the reason you gave yourself for people not making changes a few posts above - so I am confused by your reaction.

I completely agree we should all make our own minds up. I have never suggested anyone should change or ever started a thread with that intention - I have only ever responded to posts requesting information, or defended my own views from criticism - I am careful not to try and impose my views on others, but I will fight my corner. And one last point - I still don't see how the prostate study can be considered flimsy evidence, if that is what you were referring to.

finty xx

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Melly I agree 1 year is no time in terms of prostate cancer which can be every slow growing. But what is highly significant from the study is that the vegan diet groups' serum was shown to have EIGHT TIMES the ability of the non-vegan group to kill cancer cells. That's the holy grail of complementary cancer treatment - being able to fight off your own cancer cells. I don't see how that can possibly be described as worthless - what more could you ask for?

Highlighted
Guest
Not applicable

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Ladies ,
With respect i think you are missing the point, i certainly have no problems with anyone wanting to follow a particular diet if they feel that that is the right way to go for them, i respect your views, equaly i think you need to respect others, this thread needs to give a balanced view on all the available evidence to date, it is important, it is important because only then can people make informed decisions and choices for themselves.
Finty , if i believed that giving up Dairy would drasticly improve my chances of survival from this desease i would give it up in an instance! no question about it, i am in fact a very open minded person , but i cant subscribe to any flimsy antedotal evidence and just keep my fingers crossed ,i do accept the many studies that have been done relating to Dairy and breast cancer and which to date have still not found a link!! , these are reputeable studies, and im sorry but the facts are that at the moment there is NO proven connection.
I have changed many things since being DX with BC, i have done so because im fed up of all the chemicals and perservatives in our food and products today , i eat organic, all meals in my house are cooked fresh from scratch(No ready pre packed meals) no processed foods,i dont cook with plastics /teflons ,i use organic shampoos,use mineral only make up,and i like you have binned most of the cleaning products from my home, i also avoid parabens ,i no longer use deorderants and i dont drink Alcohol (never have) . So i think peoples assumptions that some of us think "things are just to much effort or too hard to change" is a bit of a cop out.
I know you feel passionately about the non Dairy route and that is fine , but not everyone shares this view , we all do our own research and we all come to our own conclusions, lets face it none of us here are the "Experts" however much we research this desease, my trust is with my medical team ,their advice , and the scientific evidence that is available .
One thing BC has taught me is that life is for liveing, to grab it by the Ba**s and enjoy every single second ,i wont spend my time being miserable because i cant have this ,or i cant have that ,when and IF the evidence tells me different believe me i will be the first in the que!!!
Its always good to have these debates because i think we can all learn something from it, but like all these debates at the end of the day none of us has the answers .
We are all different, and we all have different views. lets just accept and respect that.
Linda x

Highlighted
Guest
Not applicable

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

My friends dad was diagnosed with early prostate cancer 10 years ago, and it was only last year that they suggested any kind of treatment before that he was just monitored.His Oncologist told him when he was first diagnosed that he would probably die of old age not the cancer.So I think the 1 year study is worthless really.On the subject of diet and prostate cancer I was reading an article about Dirk Benedict who used to be in the A-team,he was diagnosed with prostate cancer in the seventy's and was advised to have surgery,but he refused and instead changed to a macrobiotic diet and is cancer free.

Mel xx

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

I agree Gretchen but I think there is a lot of cognitive dissonance when people are asked to consider changing their lifestyles - whatever form the change takes. Most people believe they are doing things right in most aspects of their lives - relationships, diet, child rearing etc, and they will look for the evidence that supports what they are doing, and refute the evidence that is contrary. It's perfectly natural and I think I do it a lot too - I was initially very sceptical about complementary treatments and it's only because the stakes are so high for me that I started looking at diet and other issues, and was very surprised by what I found. I was a head in the sand girl before!

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Damn, Flinty!!

You always say what I want to say - just sooo much more eloquently! (laugh)

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

This thread and others like it continue to astound me!

It would seem that there are more people trying to dispute any evidence on the benefits of a good diet rather than encourage others to try to embrace to benefits of eating for life. It am also surprised at how few people are prepared to put the effort in to making changes. (not really those on this thread!)

Definitive evidence on diet will be virtually impossible to obtain, because of so many variables and because so many people don't really have an idea of what a truly healthy diet is. Although sometimes it seems as if I spend hours preparing food and chopping vegetables, but I eat a great variety of food and less than 10% if my diet is refined food. It takes effort, but the tangible benefits are so great that it is hard to believe that there is not many more less tangible benefits

Yoga, exercise, removing carcinogens and synthetic oestrogens are also very important.

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Linda I'm glad you read the study - and I agree with almost all your points. I totally agree that exercise and some form of emotional support are important - but I don't agree that walking 30 mins a day is difficult! I'm sure most of us do much more exercise than that. And isn't posting here a support group? So that ticks off 2 from the list!

The study can only study those that are available to take part - and they were early stage prostate cancer sufferers, and it followed them for a year. But the results were not inconclusive - even if the study is small, there are well understood significant confidence levels that adjust for sample size, and my understanding is that the findings were outside these boundaries - ie statistically significant. (I will get my mathematician husband to confirm this - or not as the case may be - when he gets home much later.)

The study did look at spread - but there was no spread for the diet group, and sufficient spread in the control cohort for 6 members to require medical intervention, measured in all cases by PSA level and MRI scans. Survival wasn't relevant as all members survived the year - although I am contacting the author to see if there is any follow up. I very much hope there is.

The plan may be hard to follow for some - probably more so for older men, who I suspect made up most of this group being studied - probably the least likely profile to consider a vegan diet appetising if my father and his friends are anything to go by! But that not the point - I was asked for evidence that it worked - not whether it was fun.

I agree entirely with Lichtenfeld - I would never consider for a second following a diet plan instead of conventional treatments - but I do follow one in addition to everything my onc can offer me. But I do find it interesting that in this study diet and lifestyle changes did work on their own, as this group had rejected medical intervention.

Prostate and breast cancers are of course different, but they also have similarities in that they are both largely hormone driven. But there isn't a cohort of breast cancer suffers that can be studied this way - so this is all we will ever get in terms of studying cancer and diet in live cancer groups without medical intervention - prostate cancer is unique in that regard. But the reason that I mentioned this study in the first place is that it confirms what the much reviled Prof Plant had written regarding prostate cancer. She is accused of having no evidence to support her claims that prostate cancers following her diet have been able to keep their PSA levels low enough to not require treatment - well, now there is some evidence. Maybe she just got lucky - but maybe she is on to something after all!

The one thing that I get frustrated at is the constant refrain that even if it was proven to work, it would probably be too difficult for most people to follow. Really? So if were proven that diet could regulate early stage breast cancer, you wouldn't give it a shot? It took me about two weeks reading to sort out a diet plan, and another two weeks to source everything I needed and get into the habit of buying the different ingredients. It really wasn't much effort - certainly not much more effort than I would normally put into researching and booking a holiday. Since I believe in its efficacy, I don't find it at all difficult to follow. In fact it has surprised me that after failing at so many diets over the years - this one is a breeze to stick to. And I've lost 1.5 stone without even trying to lose weight - best diet ever!

finty xx

Highlighted
Guest
Not applicable

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

HI Finty,
Thanks for trying to get the links on,I googled the intensive lifestyle change study re prostrate cancer, and whilst it is encourageing to read , i think we need to remember a few points.

First The study was relatively small (93 men participents), all of these men had Early Stage Prostrate Cancer, they also had a Gleason Score below 7{ which actualy indicates a less aggressive Tumour)apart from an extreamly strict vegan diet they also did regular exercise which included walking 30 mins 6 times a week ,they did Yoga,meditation ,and participated in support groups which was also part of the study.
While The study shows that there "may be some benefit" to following such a strict diet with the other lifestyle changes but only once prostate cancer has been diagnosed, the findings aren't conclusive. The study only measured PSA and other lab results -- it did not look at survival or whether the disease had spread. Also, the follow up period was only a year, which is not long enough ,the follow up was brief!
Lichtenfeld notes also that the Ornish plan is very strict and may be very hard for some people to stick to. In the study, 3 men quit the plan because it was too difficult.
Lichtenfeld also said he would not recommend following this plan instead of conventional treatments .
Unfortunately because studies like this are small and the follow up is not long term it cannot prove a definate link, and even if it did i think for most people it would be very difficult to follow.
We also need to remember that Breast Cancer and Prostrate Cancer are two entirely different cancers, so cannot possibly be compared.
Linda

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Ann - yes I did point out the link with IGF and sugar, and no I eat virtually no refined sugar - mainly just sugar that occurs naturally in fruit (fructose). What gave you the idea that I did? Apart from the occasional ice cream or biscuit - about once a week - I can't think of anything that I eat that has more than minimal sugar content.

Re alcohol I drink one glass of red wine per day, for which there is plenty of research showing the benefits outweigh the risk factors for breast cancer. Resveratol in red wine was the first molecule of dietary origin identified as being capable of interfering with the progression of cancer by inhibiting all three stages necessary for the development of the disease - initiation, promotion, and progression. But moderation is the key here!

I completely agree about the population and diet - which is why I eat a diet very close to a typical asian one and don't just adopt one food as significant. But genetics can really be discounted as a significant factor, as asian women moving to the west and adopting a western lifestyle will very soon develop western levels of breast cancer. It generally happens in three generations - which is how long it takes immigrant families to fully assimilate into their host culture. This is a micro second in genetic terms.

I agree with your last paragraph that we must all do what is right for us - but I don't agree that no-one knows. The prostate cancer research I discussed is what everyone has been asking for - evidence that diet alone affects cancer outcomes, with no medical treatment or intervention to cloud the issue. The conclusion was unequivocal - diet and lifestyle changes alone can prevent early stage cancer from progressing.

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

finty - Didn't you recently draw our attention to high insulin being a risk factor? Your diet seems to contain many sugars/carbohydrates. Alcohol is also a risk factor and the jury is out on phyto-oestrogens/isoflavones, whatever you say. This is what I meant by what is there left to eat?

Just because a population has a lower incidence of a disease, it is not scientifically possible to point to one area of diet as being the reason. They probably do not import their soya from the USA and they treat it differently in preparation. They eat more fish. They are a different nationality genetically and may be less susceptible to bc. There are all number of reason why they have a lower incidence.

This discussion can go on and on because, basically, no-one knows. We don't know what is right individually, as we are all different. We must all do what we think is right for us, but I think we can agree that the whole thing is very worrying.

Ann x

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Hi Alex I also liked Servan Schreiber's book - I am going to read up the others you suggested now. Thanks. finty x

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

I found David Servan-Schreiber's "Anti-cancer - a new way of life" a really good read full of easy to follow advice on foods that fight cancer. Anyone can incorporate some of these foods into their diet while maybe avoiding the 'baddies' - refined carbs.

I would also recommend "Trick and Treat" (Barry Groves) and Gary Taubes "The Diet delusion" to anyone.
Both refer to hundreds of scientific studies suggestive that the high carb/low fat diet is not the optimum one for health. They suggest that the low carb/high fat diet is actually much better overall.
I try to keep the carbs under control, eat berries, nuts, dark chocolate, a glass of red wine a day and as few packaged foods as possible. I don't curtail my fat content but do try to avoid junk processed fatty rubbish! Will it work? who knows but I believe it's worth a try. My logical mind tells me that our bodies are not evolved to cope with junk foods and the indidence of cancer has grown rapidly since the move to a high carbohydrate diet.

alex
:)

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Ann I read that article and found it very superficial, with very few references to the underlying research. The US research that it did mention is very suspect - I have read it - as it didn't discount enough variables. For instance, it included someone as having a high soya diet if they ate a conventional (ie very unhealthy) american diet, but added soy sauce to the occasional take away! I'm not surprised they discovered a high soya diet had no health benefits!!

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Thanks Gretchen - I have read Chris Woolhams website, so will try the books. My favourite though is Foods that Fight Cancer by Prof Beliveau and Dr Gingras. For me the diet issue isn't just cutting out certain foods, but adding in foods that help the immune system and have shown some promising cancer fighting properties.

Highlighted
Member

Re: anyone got any anti cancer diet advice?

Ann I actually enjoy my diet - I eat loads of fruit and veg, cereals, porridge, nuts, bread, fish, eggs, houmous, peanut butter, soya ice cream, sorbets, red wine, dark chocolate, occasionally biscuits, chinese, japanese, thai and indian food, soups, casseroles, stir fries, curries ...

In fact my diet now is what I used to eat before on a good day - I've just cut out the bad days!

I don't know too much about manure and organic vegetables - but I am happy that a near vegan diet is the diet most closely associated with low levels of breast cancer (Japan, China etc). But there is much more to fruit vegetables than just not being animal products - they contain very many helpful phtyochemicals with properties that may help in fighting cancer, and more are being discovered all the time.

I know there are many with concern about soya. The evidence is certainly mixed - but again a soya diet is associated with low levels of breast cancer in asian countries, and I personally believe the evidence tilts towards phtyoestrogens behaving differently from animal oestrogen. I think soya supplements are dangerous, so I only eat a small amount - usually just milk with cereal.