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Joint and muscle pain

74 REPLIES 74
m123
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

I really struggled with joint pain for the first 5 - 6 months on goserelin and exemestane, and considered stopping but the Predict tool results convinced me to keep going.

I've found exercising every day or two really makes a difference, even if it's just for 20 minutes at a time, a walk around the block or moving while I'm waiting for the kettle or whatever. There are loads of options for HIIT or zumba or any kind of exercise class you like on YouTube, and I've managed to start running again.

On the one hand I'm glad that I've found a solution, but on the other it does mean planning a bit more to fit in exercise each day.

Sally63
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Thank you Sheila for your message. I am 64 and also don’t like this being put down to menopause, done all that! I feel reluctant to stop examestane, any risk of recurrence seems difficult after all we have shine through. But I will talk to my oncologist again and think about Pilates. My main exercise is walking and gardening, I try to do something each day but it’s all quite gentle! I must get the exercise bike out again!!

SheilaJ
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

To everyone who has posted recently, I am really sorry to hear you are struggling.  I also felt like I had aged 10 years in one, and was feeling so depressed, having been very active beforehand.

I do feel better for being off the letrozole, which I did on advice, BUT it took a few weeks for the joint aches and pains to go away - so JPet maybe worth persevering if that is what you want to do.

It's very difficult - I was told that letrozole has sound evidence behind it in reducing recurrence, and that made me stay on it.  Then I was told that for me as an individual the benefits were tiny.

I don't think there is enough support for making theses kinds of decisions - impossible to do on your own as we're not (most of us) doctors, but we DO know how our own bodies feel.  I used the Predict tool online and then went through this with my consultant. 

As far as exercise that helped, I found Pilates really good.  You can start gentle and build up, and my class  teacher is very good at suggesting alternatives for things I find difficult.  I try and do a little bit most days, before bed - helps me sleep too.  I also swim - well more splash about in the sea tbh - and walk an elderly dog.  So atm nothing very strenuous, but enough to keep moving - and I notice the difference if I miss more than a couple of days.

Anger is is quite cathartic too 🙂  I get so annoyed when everything is laid at the door of the menopause (I am 63) - and so what if that is what is causing symptoms, they are still symptoms that need to be taken seriously for goodness sake!  Age-ism and misogyny are still much too common, and hard to challenge when you're feeling vulnerable.

I wish you all the best of luck in pursuing this and finding someone who will listen - they are out there.

Cara247
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

If anyone finds a way to get relief from the joint & muscle pain please come back to this post and share please??

Cara247
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

That’s a fair point, it’s worth asking the question and finding out if there are alternatives.  Personally I have discussed my ongoing arthralgia on several occasions with both my oncologist and consultant breast surgeon. On every occasion I have been told it is caused by the medication which they strongly recommend in my case, but switching to letrozole had same effect. I raised the question again last week with my GP but didn’t get anywhere.

Kenobi
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Definitely you are not alone!!

Aches are with me every day night and day. I try to stay active as much as possible and to get massages whenever I can, but there's only so much I can do and I still hope that time will improve the side effects.

In the last week I was lucky enough to not suffer much, which helped mentally too, but there are ups and downs.

Stay strong! 

JPet
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

I agree @SheilaJ and it's not just the NHS. I had private treatment and my oncologist is of no help at all. She blames the menopause for my aches and pains. I am unsure if that's correct but no one seems interested in addressing it or investigating it. In fact it got so bad that I have stopped taking the Letrozole now and, ironically, the aches have not stopped so I might as well start again. I am getting so fed up of this, yes I am grateful but equally fed up. I am living in the body of a 90 year old. I get that exercise works but I can barely walk so exercise is difficult.

SheilaJ
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

I get that there is a balance to be struck and every case is different in terms of risks and benefits, but side effects should be taken very seriously if they are seriously affecting quality of life.  It's not just about feeling grateful for having effective treatment for cancer (though I do) and that this should be enough, but recognising that there is an ongoing consultation to be had with patients to make sure they are getting what is best and works for them, and allows them to continue to enjoy day-to-day life as much as possible.  Which may mean trial and error with a number of different drugs.

We have to be prepared to ask, I think.  I didn't for months, just thought I had to thole it, and when I eventually did because I was feeling so desperate and depressed I was told I didn't need to have been on letrezole anyway.  NHS is hard pressed atm, and as individuals we may not always get the follow up we need unless we question a little more.  I wish I had asked sooner!

Cara247
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Sally 63 I’m with you totally.  I wasn’t prepared for the arthralgia that follows treatment. I wake up in agony and go to bed in pain every single day and think this can’t be right? I’ve spoken to friends also on aromatase inhibitors who take it happily with no effects at all, so it’s only on this forum I’ve found out others who are also in pain and I know aim not alone.

Joanie56
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi, 

I'm trying a couple of drops of CBD a day which isn't very much. You can take up to 15 drops a day. I can't swear it helps but it maybe relaxes me more so I sleep deeper.

What does help is the physio and I think that's partly being able to talk to someone who understands the pain. 

Wishing you less pain and yes, keep swimming. It's the best exercise for your whole body. 

hugs

Kenobi
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Yes, my oncologist too told me that aromatase inhibitors have even more severe side effects than Tamoxifen.

I agree that staying active helps a lot. I can definitely tell that if I move I will feel the pain a bit less.

let's stay strong ladies! 

Sally63
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Scrolling through the complete list of messages and responses, it seems to me that for the most part this is something we just have to put up with on either tamoxifen or aromatase inhibitors. 
There doesn’t appear to be anything that really helps apart from maybe CBD but that seems complicated to obtain and use in appropriate dosage. I get quite depressed some mornings and the nights are awful, I never sleep properly even though I’m tired. I feel as though I must wear my family out so I try not to mention it too much. Cancer really does suck, I had no idea that we had 5-10 years of arthralgia to manage and it could continue after we stop the meds. Chemo was hard but at least there was an end in sight. But this isn’t cancer and therein lies some comfort and there are times during the day when the pain is less obvious, 

warm greetings to you all, we just keep swimming and make the most of what we have ❤️

Joanie56
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

I was told by my oncologist that the aromatase inhibitors work better but have more side effects.
It’s all hard work, mentally and physically, and so I keep going to the gym. I really do think the more I move the better I feel. 

It’s got to be worthwhile. 
take care

 

Kenobi
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi,

Thanks so much for your reply and no worries at all.

Their plan is Tamoxifen for 5 years (I'a already on year 2) and then switching to an aromatase inhibitor for other 5 years, but they already warned me that aromatase inhibitors such as Letrazole etc. are even worse 😞

I did have both chemo and radio.

I've got bearable days and days where the aches and leg cramps just drive me mental.

Let's hope things improve overtime!

Janbabs
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi

I have been taking Omega 3 capsules for 3 years, I was diagnosed with breast cancer in January this year and started taking Letrozole in February. I had no side effects at all but started on Ibandronic acid in May, then it all started- I was taking these for 3 weeks and felt sick every day until lunch time, by the end of the first week knees, ribs, wrists neck all ached, I couldn’t peel a potato or get up the stairs but it disappeared after 3 days. The breast nurses are adamant it’s the Letrozole and not the Ibandronic acid that caused it but I had been on Letrozole for 3 months by then. On week 3 of the IA I had horrendous left eye inflammation which required steroids to reduce so I am off IA now awaiting IV Zolendronic acid. I’m not sure if the Omega 3 has had any influence at all whichever drug caused the joint pain but it’s gone.

Joanie56
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi Kenobi,

Sorry it took so long to reply. I've only been taking Tamoxifen since October 2020. I'll be on it for 2.5 years and then I'll go onto an aromatase inhibitor for 2.5 years. 

I'm still getting cramps in my legs and feet sometimes but not unbearable. I've been to the physiotherapist for the last few weeks as the radiotherapy has messed up the muscle under my breast which makes my arm hurt where it connects to my shoulder. This has helped enormously. I'm 65. Don't know if that's relevant. 

Truthfully I just try to treat myself kindly. I've got a special cushion I can use under my armpit at night as my skin feels like it sticks together when I lie on the treated side. 

Did you have radio or chemotherapy? You know the radiotherapy keeps working for at least a year/a year and a half. I'm surprised you'll be on Tamoxifen so long. I thought they only gave it for 5 years max. 

take care

🤗

Cara247
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Same with me, been on Anastrozole for 1.5 years and no let up in pain I though my body would start to get used to it. Can’t see any other posts on the effect years down the line? 

Kenobi
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hello,

Can I ask how long have you been taking Tamoxifen? Since it's been more than a year now for me and I can't see any improvement with aches, no matter what I try, I was wondering if there's anyone who noticed improvement over time? I can't imagine living like this for the next 9 years...

JPet
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi, just to reiterate - I am not a medical expert and prescribed THC oil in conjunction with prescribed high strength CBD oil has helped my aches and pains as well as night sweats. I used Sapphire Medical Clinic but there are others available. THC oil does not have the same effect as smoking cannabis, it does not give you a 'high' - the clinic also stressed this in the appointments. I find it relaxes muscles and gives me a good night's sleep. 

There are a number of articles and papers available to research on the Internet but I this has definitely helped me.

 

Joanie56
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi, doesn’t THC oil just make you high? 

Joanie56
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi. Interesting to read your posts. 
I’m taking Tamoxifen and suffering at night with pain in my legs and shoulder. The cramps have pretty well stopped probably because I do a lot of exercise.
I liked your comment about CBD. I live in The Netherlands but have no idea which CBD’s are worth taking as I know some have very limited strength. Any ideas how I can make sure I’ve got an effective one? I’m not a smoker so don’t want to go doen that route. 
thanks

Joanie 

JPet
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi,

 

I'm unsure whether they are in Stirling but you can book an appointment via their website Sapphire Medical Clinics. The CBD and THC shouldn't interfere with drugs but I'm no expert, I take Anastrazole. Yes it helps you sleep but takes a few weeks to help with the aches and pains and night sweats.

Cara247
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi that’s interesting that you mention Sapphire I joined a webinar this week to find out more. Is that the Stirling one? I was wondering if you are able to take alongside Zometa and Anastrozole I asked them the question but no answer.  
How long have you taken it before it put pain away, or does it just help you sleep through your pain? Also are there any side effects?

Thanks

 

JPet
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Just following this chat. My aching became so terrible that I investigated CBD in depth. My thinking was that when my chemo course changed to the Paclitaxel I was in such agony that the only way I could think of getting relief was by taking some cannabis a friend had left some years ago after a BBQ. Also my father smoked cannabis to relieve his MS aches so I figured I'd try. It worked  treat. So I checked with my GP for medical cannabis and despite what your read, it is not available on the NHS. There are a number of private clinics and I was willing to pay almost anything for some relief. I did further research and settled on a Sapphire Medical Clinics, paid for a consultation and then was prescribed CBD and THC oils. I have to say, they work a treat and I have not slept so soundly in years. Worth every penny. The cost is not good bad. When I looked into getting some THC oil from the Netherlands the minimum cost was £250. The  initial consultation was about £200 and the prescription for both the CBD and THC is around £120. Prior to this, my Oncoligist also suggested taking a good break (8 weeks)  from the Letrozole to see if that helped but, tbh,  it made no difference at all so the aching must be a combination of the chemo, lack of oestrogen,  menopause, sheer bloody mindedness! Happy to share more details of the medical THC if anyone needs it 😀 

Sally63
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Interesting! How did you get CBD prescribed? I’m prepared to try anything! 🙏

Scotdoll
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi

i had aches before treatment (now on exemestane ...was on letrozole which gave me the WORST bladder ache !) and a BC chum suggested CBD oil. She had been using it successfully.
I chose carefully and wishing 4 days my pains reduced dramatically. I stopped having to use paracetamol 4 times a day to cope. Rarely need pain relief at all. Nordic walking most days.

cannot praise the CBD enough.

I have no shares or financial gain from suggesting this.

just another option for some people to think about.

ps I did check with Breast specialist and GP before starting and they were happy for me to try.

H

Kenobi
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi, I'm in the same situation. I've been on Tamoxifen for more than a year now (I started it straight after the end of my treatment) and I have the exact same aches in muscles, joints and bones that everyone else is experience unfortunately.

I tried Glucosamine as well as cod liver oil capsules and magnesium as suggested by my oncologist, but I didn't see any improvement. I also tried glucosamine for a few months but that didn't work either.

I found that taking hot baths with Epsom salts at night helps relaxing the muscles and that exercising helps too. I work out 5/6 days a week (no running though, as my knees are too sore) and that makes me feel good, but it's not that sport made my pain disappear.

I also have deep tissue massages every now and then and that definitely helps relaxing the muscles, but I should take them every 2 days considering my aches and that's obviously not possible because of the costs.

It takes lots of strength and patience to accept this! Let's hope that over time things will get better and maybe our body will get used to it!

Sally63
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi I am wondering how everyone is now the summer is almost here? It feels different to last year when we were still in treatment but at least able to be outside! So much rain now. My oncologist switched me to exemestane, it’s the same group of oestrogen blocking drugs but he thought the arthralgia might be less. Sadly it’s no different and I remain in constant pain especially at night and early morning. Another 4 years feels hard to bear but I just keep saying it’s not cancer and I will manage. Another suggestion was I could change to tamoxifen, but I think that has its own side effects too. Is anyone taking tamoxifen? Another biphosphonate infusion in July and still having scar therapy, seems we can never escape it.  Sorry to moan, I really hope you are all well and enjoying getting back to a degree of normality!

hugs to you all xx

Scotdoll
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi

gosh there are a lot of us with aches and pains on letrozole. I am so grateful to be treated for breast cancer but as others have said we will be on this drug for a long time an need to find ways of coping. My partner does not want to listen to me complaining about pain...so I don’t! But some days are really bad and other days just manageable. I did some reading and there have been a couple of studies that suggest glucosamine and chondriton helps with the pain caused by this group of drugs. I checked with my surgeon who had not heard of this but was happy for me to try. I have to say I do think they help. Stopped for a while and was Worse. I am on a very limited income and am glad that they are not expensive.

‘I also walk walk walk ... it really seems to help. Some days it is impossible so I rest. I hate relying on pain killers so it may be a useful option for some people. 

 

SheilaJ
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

I am really sorry to hear that others are having such a hard time - but if I am honest I am also relieved that it is not just me!   I was beginning to feel that I was being totally pathetic, and should just pull myself together, and now feel less lonely with it all.

And you are right Sally, we should enjoy Christmas as much as we can - so I wish you all a peaceful and happy Christmas and hope we can look forward to better times next year.  Take care 🎄

Sally63
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

@JPet you are definitely not alone! Today I asked my husband as usual to massage my joints, I said I feel as though I am being punished after all the cancer treatment as I have had so little sleep and my whole body hurts. I can’t get up yet. Probably because I am 63 I don’t have hot flushes - went through all that about 10 years ago - but everything else is so similar to you all. It feels like this is a stage in cancer treatment that isn’t really described in detail or explained. Like your dog walk, I do try to walk every day and I do think it helps until the next day!

Take care everyone and try to enjoy Christmas despite all the restrictions we live under, at least we have life ❤️

Cara247
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

 
JPet
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

@Sally63 @SheilaJ It is so good to finally find out that what I'm experiencing isn't unique to me! My sleep too is horrific. Takes ages to get to sleep and then the night sweats and aches wake me up constantly during the night. I too can't get out of bed until around 10am and my partner brings me tea until I drag myself out of bed.I generally take the dog for a good 45 minute walk across the fields which is in itself exhausting - I get out of breath so easily and the dreaded hot flushes...). Does anyone else suffer with breathlessness? I used to smoke but stopped when I was diagnosed in January. But honestly thinking my efforts have been wasted as felt way better when I smoked! Obviously not going to start again but in my angrier moments I do wonder why I bothered. Hugs to all x 

Sally63
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi again Sheila, my sleep is awful. I wake every couple of hours with joint pain, I start the day exhausted. I uncurl my body and dont really get going until about 10, my dear husband brings me coffee in bed every morning because I’m so slow. I do improve as the day goes on and walking helps but my work is quite intense so I don’t have time to exercise often. Dark evenings don’t help. 
I wasn’t prepared for this at all and by the sounds of things there isn’t much difference between Anastrazole and Letrozol so it’s Hobsons choice! Ah well, it’s not cancer or Covid, this too shall pass eventually. It helps to know we are not alone, hugs to everyone xx

SheilaJ
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

I feel less alone after getting these replies, so thank you!

I was actually out this afternoon doing some physically distanced shopping (live in a small town so quite easy) but felt so tired when I got back after a busy morning too that I just slumped with a cup of tea, and watched the news.  Bad idea, it was so depressing.

So i felt I had to cheer myself up and did a 15 minute dance workout on youtube to One Direction (I know, but the songs are so catchy). 

I couldn't keep up at all but I felt better and more energised and definitely more cheerful afterwards.  So on some days I don't manage any exercise at all, but even a short session makes me feel better, and I hope might have some cumulative benefits, so I just tell myself I need to keep going and not worry so much about not being 'back to normal' yet.  Maybe it just takes a long time, or maybe I just need to learn to manage lif a bit differently.  COVID in the background doesn't help - and I don't always know if sleeping so badly is the letrezole or worry about the epidemic.  Does anyone else find their sleep patterns are disturbed?

Hang on in there!

Elly
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

@JPet @Sally63 @SheilaJ I feel the exact same way too. Aged at least 10 years in 1 year. I've been doing yoga and lymphatic yoga and that's been really helpful. helps with joint pain.

JPet
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Definitely going to try pirates. @SheilaJ I hear you on the inability to get up in the morning. I used to be up at 6am and travel into London, I definitely couldn't do that now, luckily my firm is working from home but even so I don't start until 11am. I'm lucky that have been so understanding. I still have my unopened box of Letrozole and just keep purring off starting it. Coming off the Anastrozole made no difference to the pains so I hope thr Letrozole doesn't make it worse. Having said that, my body already feels 90 years old.

Sally63
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

I feel just like that Shiela, I am the same age as you. Maybe I should try Pilates or yoga in the new year!

SheilaJ
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

I too feel very sad and depressed about the side effects of letrozole, one of which for me is extreme tiredness - always absolutely knackered by the end of the day.  Ok I am 63 and still working, but before my surgery in July I was always out before 7 in the morning for an hour with the dogs, now can barely get up before 830.  I try to keep walking and doing other stuff but it's really beginning to get me down.  I feel I have aged 10 years in 1

I do wonder if it's partly depression due to the general awful situation, and I too feel I shouldn't complain.  I love my job but am at the point of calculating whether I can afford to retire 

On a more positive note I have found that Pilates does help me.  I try and do just a little every day if I can, as well as weekly class, and I know it makes a difference because I feel worse if I don't do it - so that is very motivating! 

I guess it's just about trying different things to see what works, but it can be hard going.

Good luck everyone!

Sally63
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

It feels as though we have no choice, I really wasn’t prepared for this and feel I shouldnt complain as at least joint pain isn’t cancer! But I have to uncurl my body every morning, and it doesn’t sound as though there is an alternative unless CBD can help, let us know please! 💕 hugs to you all

Cara247
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

I switched to letrozole to see if it reduced my lower back pain and migraines, but it worsened the migraines and got shooting pain in my wrist as well, it just didn’t agree with me, I, like many feel stuck between a rock and a hard place because I need to take it. I hope that in time my body will finally get used to it but who knows. Please pm me and let me know if the CBD helps!

JPet
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

@Cara247 I know what you mean about quality of life! I still haven't started the Letrozole in case the pain gets even worse. Can't believe I can barely walk. It eases a little during the day but then back with a vengeance late afternoon. A friend of a friend who had the same issue apparently swears by CBD tablets so I'm going yo try those too. I will report back!

Cara247
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

I really struggle with Anastrozole, started it a year ago and every morning I wake up in absolute agony it affects almost every part of my body from head to toe. Some pain eases after I get up but mostly have it round the clock. Tried switching to letrozole. but it was even worse, had four weeks off but things didn’t improve either.  Quality of life seems to be a thing of the past!

 

JPet
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi I'm new to the forum but am so so SO pleased I have found these posts. I finished chemo end August and RT end September. I started Anastrazole September. Since then my aches have just got worse. I was 50 in October but my body feels like it belongs to  90 year old! My oncologist blamed it on the Anastrazole and I have been off these for a month but no change. Am meant to start Letrozole this week. Not sure I can cope with living in this pain for 10 years. Am trying Turkey Tail and Reishi mushroom tablets.  

Elly
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi Cara247 and Sally63,

The Anthony William cleans I did was the one called "The Original 3:6:9 Cleanse" in the 'Cleanse To Heal' book on pages 109-129.

Would you also be interested in trying a daily routine (for free) that I have put together to help rebuild mind, body, and soul following cancer treatments? It has been very useful for me and I would like to share it with others. If so, please contact me at reactivatemyself@gmail.com.

Sally63
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi everyone I finished radiotherapy following mastectomy and chemo end of June. I have been on Letrozol since and joint pains just get worse especially my hands and wrists, but also ankles and hips. I call it uncurling in the mornings as it’s so stiff and painful. Can you explain about the Anthony Williams thing please? My oncologist said the joint pain would improve in a about 1 year, I have no idea why it would change but hopefully it will, as someone else said I don’t need any more poison! Thanks
Cara247
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi I also suffer terrible joint and back pain, you mentioned Anthony Williams cleans,  can you tell me which one helped you as I might try it?  Thanks 

Elly
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Hi Rosem,

I had the same problem. Every single joint hurt on my body. I was told it was a side effect from chemo, even though it started about 6 months after my last round. I ended up trying the health cleans from Anthony William and 90% my pain went away in a few days. I couldn't believe it, it was remarkable! I continue to do the cleans every two months.

Kazie
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Thank you for your advice and will certainly bear it in mind should my aches not improve. I agree with how you feel about taking Hydroxy......... we've had enough poison in our bodies haven't we. But sometimes you feel it's worth it. Good luck with it I hope it's works for you xx

Kazie
Member

Re: Joint and muscle pain

Just knowing that someone else has experienced this helps me so much and I really appreciate your reply. I feel like I'm taking two steps forward and three back. I will continue with my exercise and give it time. I'm cabin crew and often do 12hr shifts it's hard work but hoping to return next year although it all seems impossible now.  If my hip doesn't improve I will speak to my GP.  Take care and stay safe ❤ x