finty - Please let us know what the cancer nutritionist has to say about anything you ask.
I am finding that there is so much confusion, controversy, etc about absolutely everything we consume that I am starting to think there really is nothing totally safe to eat nowadays. All the books are loaded one way or another, are out of date by the time they are published and most of them are written purely for making money (understandably). Regarding the book you mentioned, The Diet Delusion, have you read the reviews on Amazon? Read the highest starred one and the lowest. They completely disagree. I believe that if a person wants to keep to a healthy weight strongly enough, they will eat appropriately. Fortunately, I don’t have a sweet tooth, I do have willpower and have never had a problem with my weight.
I have become totally cynical and the only things I find credible are the actual results of scientific studies, not here-say, but nowhere is it all brought together and it is changing all the time as more research is carried out.
It would be SO lovely to be able to receive good, scientifically grounded, reliable advice from the medical profession or nutritionists, but to be honest, I do not believe that any are adequately qualified to offer advice, because no-one really knows the whole story.
So, it all boils down to us finding our own way, which is very scary.
Another interesting thread on diet. I’d also be keen to know what the cancer nutritionist has to say and how much they base on research.
I used to think that I’d never put on weight as I was always slim. I couldn’t understand then how people could let themselves get overweight - if I put on a few pounds I cut back and that would be it. That was until I developed endometriosis and once I started hormone treatment for that the weight piled on. I don’t think that it is a simple case of willpower for everyone. Weight gain can be a side effect of medications much as constipation or hot flushes etc. It’s not the same for everybody.
I agree with you Finty about cutting out sugar. It’s in so many things now it’s quite scary. I was completely obsessive about it at first but now am a bit more relaxed and have some occasionally.
My diet since diagnosis has been fantastic - lots of veg, not much meat etc. I have no alcohol, no fatty food and as I’m suffering badly with acid reflux can only have small meals. I also go for at least a 30 minute walk each day. But I’m putting on weight again! My Onc says its the tamoxifen.
Hi All
Ann04 just thought I’d mention - the book “The diet delusion” is absolutely choked full of scientific evidence. I do agree with you that it all gets very confusing and I think we all make our own decisions and then see how we feel after changes.
I try to eat mostly what I see as a healthy diet nowadays, i.e. nuts, berries, meat, fish, poultry, cruciferous veggies, salad veggies, cabbage etc. I include some ‘fattening’ foods like cream, cheese and mayonnaise, and try to have turmeric and black pepper mix every day. I have recently started using supplements as well and even controversial stuff such as zeolite. I feel really well, and I exercise every day but am overweight and can’t seem to reduce.
I think if you try something and feel really well you should trust that feeling. Although I am far from extreme in my diet I know I will absolutely minimise processed foods and sugar for the rest of my life.
alex
Ann - please don’t think I was having a go about what you said. It just made me realise how frustrated I was feeling about my weight gain. I’ve never eaten so little in my whole life and keep having episodes of vomiting from acid reflux but the weight goes on…
I do think though that having the most nutritious diet possible (from the evidence we have at the moment)and reducing chemical load is important not just physically but mentally too. I feel that it gives me some power back. Perhaps I’m deluding myself but then again maybe it will make a difference.
One thing I do know is that having had cancer has been a big wake up call for me and has had a ripple effect. My husband, several friends etc have changed their diets, taken up more exercise etc. I’ve mentioned on threads before that my husband follows the same diet as me which does exclude dairy and red meat and his previously high cholesterol has dropped right down.
Elinda - Is it possible you are not getting enough calories? The body goes into ‘starvation’ mode if the intake is too low, so as to preserve its resources. That’s one reason people find it hard to lose weight when on a diet.
As far as the acid reflux goes, could your GP prescribe Losec?
“Losec (omeprazole) is a drug used to treat stomach ulcers and gastric reflux.”
My Mum was prescribed Losec, after years of acid indigestion and it made a huge difference. I know how unpleasant it can be, having had acid reflux when pregnant.
Thanks Ann. This has got me thinking. I’m sure I have enough calories and think that because I’m still getting a lot of fatigue I’m just not active enough. Although I go for a walk every day I think I’m slower in my every day life if that makes sense and not doing enough to burn off what I eat.
I’m on omeprazole and domperidone and gaviscon but can’t keep it under control. I’m speaking to my GP again on Monday about it. It’s so weird because I’d never even had indigestion before the chemo. I went to a food fayre yesterday and bought a digestive mix made by a company called Conscious food. It contains various things like fennel seeds, flax, liquorice, mint etc and I’m going to see if that helps.
I wondered whether any of you have seen the website, “imperfectly natural”. It has news, articles and places to buy things etc. That’s where I found Organnics of Rye where I get my cosmetics and skin cream. Also got quite a good detailed article on sugar and sugar substitutes. Here’s the link: imperfectlynatural.com/
The downside is that it’s not that user friendly and has a lot of advertising but there is a link to Janey’s natural store which has products.
Elinda - I’m sorry if you thought I was interfering, as you are already taking Losec. It’s a sore point with me - excuse the pun. It’s just that my Mum suffered for so long before being given it. I believe it caused her demise in the end and, looking back, I don’t think the medical profession saw the whole picture. She used to take loads of indigestion tablets because of the acid reflux, which I think contributed to kidney stones. They removed part of her para-thyroid gland because they said she was producing too much calcium, and then had to take calcium daily as they took away too much. I doubt she was ever asked about her calcium intake prior to the op. When she was dx with breast cancer, it had already spread to her bones. I believe they had been weakened by too little calcium by then and they started to crumble. The medics were never able to tell me whether she had osteoporosis or not, but I do not think she would have had the same problems if she had been given Losec earlier and not had her parathyroid reduced. Sorry for rant.
I listened to Jayney on Steve Wright’s programmes and ended up getting her book. This was before bc and I never really read it all. I must get it out again.
The only other thought regarding weight loss is, have they checked your thyroid function? I am sure they will have done, but it is just a thought.
Ann - I’m so sorry to hear about your mother and all she went through. I’m not surprised you raised the losec issue and I’m grateful that you thought of it for me. I think it’s sometimes hard to get across how awful acid reflux is and how debilitating it can be.
I hate to say it but I do think as people get older they don’t always get the same treatment, I’ve been noticing this with my mum who is 75. It’s as though sometimes they think that older people should just put up with problems. I’m sure that’s not all doctors but it is an issue with some. I don’t know how old your mum was but perhaps that was a factor.
I think because I’d had breast cancer they were more careful so I had a gastroscopy quite soon. The problem is that it’s hard to find something that really works and lansoprazole and that family of meds all have side effects (for me). Rather bizarrely the digestive mix which is only seeds and herbs combined in India is working. I was so sceptical but thought I’d give it a go and I’ve felt better the last two days than I have for months! It’s nothing hi-tech but things like fennel, flax, sesame, liquorice and others.
And yes, I’ve had my thyroid checked and it’s fine thankfully.
Elinda - Re gastric reflux, I get quite a lot of problems with my stomach. Tested positive for h.pylori a few months ago and had anti biotics but still get aggravation often. I get one worrying symptom but doc never even acknowledged when I told her. Occasionally - thankfully not too often, I wake up in the night with a pain in my chest and in the right side of my jaw. It’s awful, feels like something pressing on a nerve. If I sit up for a wee while or take liver salts it passes. Have you (or any of the ladies) ever had that? Stomach problems are miserable - you never feel really well when you have them. I bought a supplement called mastic gum to try and I take liver salts quite a lot. alex
Elinda - Thank you for your kind words. I agree about poor treatment for older people. I am not sure that applied to my Mum, as she had acid problems as long as I can remember, so she wasn’t always old. To be fair, I don’t think Losec was around to start with and she wasn’t one to make a fuss, so may not even have mentioned it to a doctor. If they did not ask when she developed kidney stones, she probably didn’t mention it. Later, when she had breast cancer, she belonged to BUPA, so age wasn’t a problem - other than for the cost!
However, I was appalled when my grandmother had a stroke and I discovered that the medical profession just let old stroke victims die, without even putting them on a fluid drip. I didn’t find out until after she had died, but I thought it barbaric - nothing short of murder, really.
On a brighter note, I am glad you have found something to help you.
Alex - I haven’t come across the symptoms you describe but the chest pain could be the acid reflux, couldn’t it?
Hi Alex,I’m not sure if this helps but thought I would mention it, my friends mum had a Hiatus hernia and one of her symptoms along with heartburn and reflux was chest pain when she laid down or bent forward.She was having the symptoms for a couple of years before her GP finally sent her for tests.She’s all sorted now and has no more problems,I can’t remember what treatment she had.
the chest pain sounds like it could be acid reflux. This can be a symptom of a hiatus hernia or it could be it’s taking a while to heal up in your stomach/oesophagus after your h pylori infection. I would go back to the doctor if you’re still getting symptoms as it may be that you need something like lansoprazole to reduce acid production for a while to help the area have a chance to heal.
I haven’t had the jaw pain but this could be referred pain. It could possibly relate to the acid although I’ve not heard of it particularly. I don’t know if you get any neck stiffness at all as that can cause pain in the jaw? Or it might be that you’re in pain with the acid and grinding your teeth in the night before you wake up with it?
Ann - I can’t say how strongly I feel about the treatment your grandmother received. I remember having a furious argument with a doctor about that when I was a student nurse. To me it goes against the code of conduct for nurses. You’ve been through an awful lot Ann.
Elinda - Thank you for your kindness. It didn’t just happen to my grandmother. A few years later, when my mother-in-law had a stroke, the same thing happened but in this case my sister-in-law, who was a nurse, insisted that she was put on a drip. She did die anyway, but presumably not from dehydration. Up until these events, I had absolutely no idea that it was common practice. Like you, I find it abhorent.
finty - Getting back to oestrogen and dairy, I received another reply from the Veterinary Medicines Directorate. They have been very helpful. I queried their response about it being destroyed by gastric acid in the stomach and cited HRT/the Pill. I was told that as the oestrogen produced by the cow is a natural hormone, it is sensitive to the digestive process (and largely inactivated by the liver), whereas the oestrogen in the Pill is synthetic and formulated to survive the digestive process. I was also told that naturally produced progesterone is equally sensitive to the digestive process.
I hope that reassures anyone who wants to continue eating dairy products.
Thanks for the advice. Will see how I get on with the mastic gum etc. Never thought about hiatus hernia - would it not be more chronic though?. I am sure the jaw pain is referred pain but can’t think what the origin is other than the chest pain. I wonder if it’s trapped air.
Ann - thanks for the reassurance on dairy.
alex
x
G’day from Australia. I take a ginger supplement ‘Biohawk’ which I think is only available in Oz, but there probably is something similar available in the UK.
It seems that cancer expression requires an autoimmune response and the greatest autoimmune response comes from food intolerance. Asians on Western food have a high incidence of cancer. Asians on traditional non-western food are healthy and the incidence of cancer is very low.
Makes you think, doesn’t it? I only wish I knew about this years ago!
Thanks for that Ann - although we have been discussing oestrogen it is not my particular concern with dairy - it is the IGF’s. I would also apply the same scepticism to this information as you apply to any from the alternative therapy view (although I would always call it complementary not alternative). I know the diary industry is very aggressive in dealing with these issues - I would need to know that any organisation giving this information had zero connection with dairy or farming - do you happen to know if this is the case?
finty
I have read the China Study and as a research scientist can not condone it. I think it’s TOXIC and would not listen to a word of it.
For exampe the aflotoxin study:
The graphs have no scale and the amount the alfotoxic fed to rats is so huge it cannot be related to what would be expected in a normal diet. After looking at the actual data from the China study and reading other reviews on it I think the only reason it was written was to turn people vegan. The science doesn’t stand up - I would recommend you use it as a door stop only.
Most research papers I have read on diet and breast cancer show no link between diet. There is a link with excess alcohol and BC, being overweight and gaining weight in adulthood. I would suggest you just eat a good healthy diet. Third of the plate veg - not too much meat each week, lots of fibre etc, and if you fancy one the odd glass of wine.
I am going to try the 2 day diet when finish rads (hopefully towards end Feb). It has been developed by Dr Michelle Harvie who is a research dietitian at the Genesis Breast Cancer Prevention Centre, University Hospital South Manchester Trust.
I have no idea if it will work but I am a failed serial dieter (tried all fad diets and normal ones and never manage to stick to them) and figure that it I can manage two low cal days a week I will have more chance - nothing to lose and it is a sensible diet with normal food.
I have also seen some US reasearch that supports this approach and I cant see any harm in two low cals days when some people do lighterlife which is 7 day low cal (can’t see me doing that one!).
I have pre-ordered the book which comes out during Feb but there is a lot on the web about it.
