Hi Petal,
Thanks for your post i realy appreiciate it.
All the best to you
Linda x
Thanks Belinda, have you got a spell checker i can borrow?? believe it or not i used to be very good at spelling i think all these meds have made me loose a few brain cells lol.
Hope you are ok
Love Linda xx
Ohhhhhhh Linda, maybe you should go back to school, because there you could not only enjoy 'telling to the teachers" (or moderators), but maybe you could work on your grammar.
Your continuing questioning of Flinty’s report on her time at pb, was simply dogmatic. It implied that you did not believe her report. When trying to prove that pb had slightly conflicting information it was as if that would prove that eating red meat and dairy is not a factor in bc.
Make your own mind up, eat what you like and remember, to keep friendly and specifically not to write nasty things about other posters…
Have to reiterate.
The ‘pacific’ comment was definitely NOT sarcasm, it was socratic irony.
Linda,
I admire you and your comments greatly. You have remained calm amidst sarcasm (socractic irony or not), pretentiousness and abuse !!!
The comments about grammar and irony are pathetic and a sign of a lost argument, especially to someone who mis-spells the posters name!!
We are in the game of finding information to help, prevent and cure this bastard disease.That is the only reason any of us join this site.
The only thing that would ever stop me attending the PB centre are that such militant,egocentric and narrow minded people may attend.
Surely debate and discussion is what we are about…
hi i just wanted to say every evening i turn on my computer and i look forward to reading all the threads i enjoy reading the recipe thread planning diffrent menus .I really enjoy this thread i dont join in i enjoy gathering all the information and learn by it i have changed my diet and some things have worked for me,but mainly i feel good mentaly because i have took control in what i am putting in my body it may be working it may not but its giving me a goal plus i am enjoying shopping for the food and cooking the food last year i felt i had lost control of my body and what was happening but now thanks to all you ladies i am enjoying getting back in control it is nice to have these threads to hear everybody views and receive the info we need and then we can work out what works for us goodnight missmessyx
i agree with what you have said missmessy.
Let us get back to debate not attack !!
Thanks juliet,
I realy appreciate your kindness and support, words fail me at the minute, so i dont know what to say…
You take very good care of yourself
night julie x
Ladies,
Once again, as you were all reminded on page 6 of this thread please take into account Breast Cancer Care’s Community Guidelines when posting, particularly:
- Be kind to each other.
Many people using the forum are going through difficult times. A few words of kindness can go a long way. Be especially nice to new posters – it can be very nerve-wracking to post on the forum for the first time.
Give each other the benefit of the doubt: it can be very easy to misinterpret other people’s comments, especially when read or written in haste. Sarcasm and humour are particularly easy to misunderstand.
Please don’t post comments just to annoy or inflame other users.
- Celebrate difference and disagree respectfully
A wide range of people with very different experiences use the forum. Differences and debate are very welcome, but this is no place for personal attacks. Please make your points politely and respectfully. Equally, be prepared for people to disagree with you and try not to take it as a personal attack when it is not meant that way.
Jo, Facilitator
Mel that’s really great to hear:)
I know these issues are contentious, but there is so much research available on diet and cancer, it would be crazy to ignore all of it just because it’s complicated. It’s a bit like a jigsaw puzzle that will gradually come together, the more we read and analyse it. So rather than saying it’s all so difficult we can’t possibly know what to do, my reaction is to continue posting research I find interesting, and people can take it or leave it. I’ve learnt a lot on here too, and have changed several aspects of my diet as a result. I know I am very lucky to have the time to spend doing so much reading of primary research resources, and if it helps one or two people to share the information, as it seems to have done, that’s great.
What I would like to make clear is that I have never, ever said anyone SHOULD do anything, we are all adults that can make our own decisions, but I do think it’s important that people have access to information so they can make their own informed choice. Sometimes I think the nuance gets lost - it should be possible to discuss the quality of a piece of research (or advice in the case of the PB discussion) without that being interpreted as forcing opinions on someone or making them feel guilty - the research should stand on it’s own entirely separately from people’s own diet choices.
It would be a real shame if people stopped posting research for fear of raising contentious issues or getting accused of forcing a viewpoint. let’s not shoot the messenger. I also absolutely agree we should respect each other and if we start worrying about spelling and grammar then that will make some people afraid to post.
General points about looking at research (my views and not aimed at anyone) -
If we want good debate on research then we do need to come to it with an open mind. I would love the research to back up my own personal diet and thought to a large degree it did until I had to have a rethink. I switched from dairy to soya and then research I hadn’t seen before that Finty posted has made me cut down on soya.
The best thing is if we can critique the research looking at both its strengths and weaknesses so we can make those difficult decisions on our diet.
^
Is it just me or has something gone wrong with this thread. It jumps back to the first page and I can’t see the last posting from Stressymessy.
Seems to have resolved.
There is something wrong with this thread, very wrong.
The ‘pacific’ thing is tantamount to playground bullying.
Mel you’re not alone the research can be really difficult - I generally only understand the introduction and conclusions, the bit in the middle is way over my head. (Even the statistical analysis is too much for me, and as I did part of a maths degree that is rather shameful to have to admit.) What I will try to do in future if I find anything interesting is to post alongside it a good summary for laymen - usually the newspapers pick up any good new research and print a more easily understood summary, so I will try and include something similar. In the past I have linked to the original research because I’m sensitive to being accused of imprinting my own bias, so find it better to always go to the primary source - as I was taught all those years ago …
Anyway, I am very glad you have got something useful out of all the discussions At the risk of repeating myself for the nth time though, do please consider going to Penny Brohn at some stage - they make it all quite easy to understand, and are wonderfully kind and supportive.
.
Hi xwelcomex
You really don’t have a cancer risk profile, it must be very frustrating for you, especially as your you lived as if you were trying to avoid bc and then you end up with it!
Links to good research sites are always gratefully received. I know that I am a bit busy to be delving about the internet and so love the fact that this forum has posters that hand it all up on a platter, usually with a well summarised synopsis to go along with it.
Oh how much I empathise with wwelcomex’s comment!
I too could have ticked all the boxes for reasons NOT to develop BC(at least if you go by what the breast cancer literature tells you).
But develop it I did and have been struggling ever since to understand why and come to terms with it. I’m sure that’s the story of all of us.
The sad truth is, as I mentioned earlier on, that NOBODY knows for sure why some people develop cancer and some people don’t (and I’m not just talking about BC). I’m sure many factors come into play. Diet is only one of them.
That’s why I take all advice regarding diet which is too dogmatic and restrictive with a huge pinch of salt.
For once if it was true there is a proven link between meat/dairy produce and cancer you would expect a much higher percentage of women developing BC in countries like France and Italy where vegetarians are thin on the ground and people love their cheeses.
Secondly there seems to be contradictory advice out there regarding what we should eat and what we shouldn’t. Take soya for example. Professor Jane Plant, who, as we know, advocates the elimination of ALL dairy produce, strongly encourages the consumption of soya. PB, on the other hand, lists it under food to be consumed in moderation, just like dairy produce and meat.
I confess to be very confused at times. And scared. Hence the huge pinch of salt.
I have personally decided to be sensible about what I eat (plenty of fruit and veggies, varied diet, organic where possible,etc.) without being too extreme and totally eliminating whole categories of food.
Everybody can improve on the way they eat, that’s for sure. I have started having a weekly delivery of fresh organic veggies, which I love. I have cut down on coffee and dairy. I make my own fresh fruit juices. I try to drink green tea (although not now I’m undergoing chemo as it tastes revolting for some reason) and rooibos tea.
But I’ll still have my nice slice of cake when the fancy takes me.
Or my cup of espresso coffee. Or chunk of parmesan cheese.
This does not mean I don’t respect those women who make more drastic changes to their diet. On the contrary. I always read with interest what other women do.
But everyone is different and has the right to deal with this issue as she chooses. Grammatical mistakes and all.
I hope we all agree on that.
Over and out
Lulu XX
Hi xwelcomeX
I totally agree that diet is only one of many factors, and you can appear to be doing everything right and still end up with bc or other cancers. I think it’s all about tinkering at the margins to try and reduce risk - but everyone’s assessment of what is worth doing versus the risk will be different. I really feel for you that you have tried so hard and still finish up here.
One thing that may possibly contribute, even with a very good vegetarian diet, is inflammation caused by high levels of Omega 6, or an Omega 6 vs Omega 3 imbalance. This is Servan Screiber’s thesis - that we all have cancer cells, but for some inflammation at a very small (cellular)level overwhelms the immune system and allows the cancer cells to grow.
Hi Lulu - I think the lack of a discrepancy with countries like France and Italy could be explained by differentiating between vegetarians and vegans. Most vegetarians in the UK eat a lot of dairy, so you would probably need to compare cancer rates of vegans vs consumers of animal products, including vegetarians. As vegans only represent 0.3% of the population in the Uk, the effect would be way to small to feature in national cancer rates. I’ve been looking for the actual rates of cancer among vegans (that’s when I found the IGF study we’ve been discussing), but I although I find thousands of references to lower rates, I’m struggling to find actual research that confirms it. Will keep looking though.
finty x