Hi All,
The brochure actualy says eat Red Meat in moderation , and Dairy is optional, Thats a long way from saying penny brohns says AVOID ALL RED MEAT AND DAIRY surely.
finty,
I wouldnt expect penny brohns to “recommend” red meat and dairy pacifically, why would they? or sell cookbooks exclusively on red meat or dairy, i dont know any cookbook anywhere in any bookshop that does.
Possibily as you say whats in the brochure is rather different to what your actualy told when you go to penny brohns cancer center, but personaly that would be a bit misleading to me, so i wouldnt be too happy about that, i would certainly want to know what to expect if i was going to go there for any particular reason that was of interest to me such as diet .
Ive been a bit busy , so havent had time to email penny brohns yet but il try and get round to it later ,because i realy want to try and clarify the Avoid red meat and All Dairy advice from penny brohns, because oviously if this is their advise i think like elinda said earlier they need to be aware of what it says on their website and update it accordingly.
Can I just clarify what you meant by’ …‘recommend’ red meat and dairy pacifically?’ Do you think people in the Pacific should be recommended red meat and dairy? I don’t really follow this line of thinking…?
Gretchen,
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, it great that you want to join the debate but it would be nice to have some constructive comments from you occasionaly,if thats not too much too ask?.
Lets stop this ganging up eh. if you dont agree with me thats fine but lets keep it friendly !!
Linda, sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit but stupidity is just that.
Actually I make many constructive comments, (generally with correct spelling and grammar).
There is plenty of opinion about the red meat and dairy issue. We all have to assimilate the information and make our own decisions. If pb has small disparity from the website to the courses, it is still up to the individual to come to their own conclusion, based on the vast amount of information available.
Quite clearly, if pb was very hardline on their website it would put off many people attending their courses and benefiting from all the knowledge. There are many women who cannot comprehend a diet so high in vegetables and so low in animal protein, so accustomed as we are to a diet full or processed food and much red meat.
No one is ganging up, you are just in the minority and so are having your opinions challenged. If you want to be involved in a heated debate you have to accept that people will disagree with you.
Elinda there was no mention of IGFs in the context of soya, but the nutritionist when discussing red meat said avoid it because of the growth hormones or growth factors - can’t remember which precise word she used. This was in the group talk and we had a lot to get through, so I didn’t ask any further about it, as I already felt I knew enough. When I had my individual consultation with a doctor I asked her about dairy, and she said some people will be ok with dairy and some won’t, but as you have no way of knowing you should avoid it. When I had my individual nutritionist session, she knew the only animal products I eat are eggs and fish and she said that was “perfect”. They rate eggs very highly - but not scrambled apparently, lightly boiled or poached!
Linda, I think Gretchen’s question was a fair one, and wasn’t sarcastic. There is a very big difference between saying you can do something, and we recommend you do it. PB DO NOT recommend you eat red meat or dairy (butter excepted)- but they say if you are going to eat it, then do so no more than once a week. I think that is pretty clearly them telling you they think it isn’t good for you. If they want you to eat as much fruit, veg, grain and pulses as you can - then say red meat no more than once a week, that is a very clear message, whether you want to hear it or not. And red meat and dairy do not feature on their own menu, on the recommended menu plan they hand out, or in any of the books they sell.
I’ll give you another example - someone asked if we should eat prawns. The answer was no - they are bottom feeders and high in toxins, but if you are going to eat them, do so no more than once a fortnight. So another example of them saying you can if you want to, but very clearly not a recommendation to do so. I don’t think I can keep on explaining this - I have very precisely told you the advice we were given. I was there 4 days, and the message was clear. If you want to disagree that’s fine - but as someone famously said you’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
Linda - I think it would be shame to be put off going somewhere like PB because you think their brochure might be a little misleading. The people that get most out of these courses are the ones that go with an open mind. You don’t have to take their advice - but they offer a lot more than diet advice, and some of it is very thought provoking. I got an enormous amount out of it. Even if the diet advice was very similar to my own beliefs, I still learnt a lot from those consultations, specifically (!) I now realise I need to increase the variety of foods I eat.
I would really encourage you to take the plunge and give it a go.
Just to say i have reported the unpleasant comments made recently on this thread, as usual these threads always seem to turn nasty these days , it seems “some” people dont like it when others disagree or challenge them, and dont like to be proved wrong , the facts ??? are clear to see for anyone who is realy interested in this subject and im sure people will make up their minds on the topic.
When i get a reply from penny brohns i will post it on here and then people can have some clarification on the subject.
Linda the facts I was referring to were the details of precisely what I was told at PB over the course of 4 days, and that you don’t seem to accept. I have been scrupulously honest in reporting exactly what I was told and can do no more than that.
Hi. Can I just say that I was at PB last month and I was told exactly what Finty is reporting. I had made some changes to my diet by reducing meat and dairy but not taken them completely out of my diet. PB were supportive of the changes I had made but did not put pressure on me to to make further changes. That is just not the way they are. It is very much about supporting you in your decisions. They will suggest alternatives but it is very much up to you. As Finty has said they are about much more than diet. I think they try to give people a whole new outlook on life. I would highly recommend anyone to attend if they can.
Hi Petal,
Im not doubting what finty was told at Penny Brohns ,i am just trying to understand why the diet advise on the penny brohns wesite is contradictory to what finty was told at the center.
Can i please ask you if you dont mind , at your time at penny brohns was the advice to AVOID Red Meat and to also AVOID ALL Dairy? as this is what im trying to get an answer too, it just seem very odd that they seem to say two different things on this subject one on the website and one at the center.
Thanks
All the best to you
Linda
I have been following this thread for a while now and I must say I am a bit mystified about the tone of some of the messages. It is clear that food is very much a contentious issue when it comes to cancer. BUT there is no reason to be sarcastic (yes sarcastic) and offensive to ladies expressing a different opinion, albeit in the minority. I take exception, for example, to the “people in the Pacific” comment and the one about spelling and grammar. That was below the belt and in no way constructive. The person who made it should be ashamed of herself.
I think Linda raised a very valid point when she was questioning what Finty had said (that the PB centre was advocating no red meat and avoidance of all dairy produce bar organic butter). I was baffled myself. This may very well be what they say on their retreats (I am booked on one of them and looking forward to it) but it is not what they publish on their leaflets (where they clearly state they should be eaten in moderation). It is therefore more than understandable to question it (which is what Linda was doing. Correct me if I’m wrong). That’s all.
If only diet and cancer (or better avoidance of it) was a simple equation! Sadly cancer strikes at random and nobody quite knows why some people will develop it and others won’t. No matter what diet they follow.
Let’s all respect each other, shall we, and stop thinking we have all the answers when it comes to links between certain foods and cancer (because sadly nobody does yet).
Well, may i be the very first to say a HUGE ,HUGE, MASSIVE WELCOME MELLY,
Fantastic to see you back,youve realy made my day!! i know lots of the ladies on this forum will be so very pleased to see you back here again.
Hi Linda. From what I remember in the group session it was said that red meat and dairy (apart from the butter) should be avoided if possible BUT they also said the occasional lapse was perfectly ok. They were also very against sugar and processed food. What I was trying to say is that they are not dogmatic in their approach. I’m a big coffee drinker and they only have a cereal based coffee like drink available (loads of herbal and fruit teas but I hate tea) but they didn’t say don’t drink coffee it was just suggested that I try alternatives and try to cut down.
You really should go and give them a try. They would certainly be very happy to discuss all of this with you. Their dieticians were highly qualified (five year course I heard).
I also agree with Lulu60’s comment. I have followed this thread with interest as I have been making changes to my diet as I said above but let’s keep it friendly and supportive and agree to differ on some things.
Hi Lulu,
Thank you so much for your comments and support, i know i may not be great at spelling but… none of us are perfect.
I totally agree with you that no one has the answers to diet and cancer ,and certainly none of us here are experts however much we read on the internet , i think it would be very arrogant to think we know it all, because we certainly do not.
It is a topic i feel that we will proberly never have any definate answers too ,lets face it, what we all think we know put together you could fit on the back of a postage stamp compared to all the cancer researchers and scientists so if they havent figured it out yet we have no chance!!
