Breast Cancer (The Bigger Picture)

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1

Hi Ladies
I thought it might be interesting to start a new thread where we can toss around ideas on the possible causes of breast cancer, like a lot of Ladies here, having a cancer DX has ultimeately stirred up many emotions and questions in me which makes its difficult sometimes to separate the facts from the fiction , to see the wood from the trees.

Many of us here didnt have any of the usual"risk factors" for getting BC ,but we still got it, so like a lot of people i am always trying to figure out “what went wrong”, i know there are likely a million reasons that all just came together at once, causing a faulty gene mutation/DNA damage ect, ect ,but something clearly went wrong with our cells on/off switch, but what caused that change in our otherwise healthy being??,
It would be realy good to get other people thoughts and feelings as to what they think may have Led up to/Contributed/ to their cancer DX.
The risk factors that are well documented and that are well known , such as Alcohol/Obesity/Exercise/diet ect ect are all very well and good, but it always seems far to simplistic to me,so… “why does one person get cancer and another person doesnt?”
Id realy like to hear everyones views, and would like this thread to be about everyones own thoughts and expierences on their own particular cancer DX, it would also be great if any of you have gone into any of your own research on this subject and can put up any interesting links which might help put some of the pieces together in this very complicated jigsaw puzzle, id like to know for example what everyones views are on, Stress , chemicals,biology of gene mutations ect,?? whether anyones delved more deeply into the causes of DNA damage,how it happens ,why it happens, anything that looks at the Bigger picture .
We already know that oestrogen is a factor in some breast cancers but not in all ,we also know that breast cancer is not one desease,but many, so…

What i realy dont want though,is for this thread to become about “diet” as this issue is discussed a lot on the forums,so please ladies lets keep this thread on track and look at the many other issues implicated in the possible causes of BC , id realy like to look much deeper ,(outside the box as it were)
I hope some of you may find a thread like this intersting ,and hope like me that it would be realy good to debate all these other issues in cancer developement,it can also be a good way for us to learn stuff, please keep it friendly ,i know people have very different views, and some debates can get heated ,so if you disagree with anyone please attack the post and not the poster.Debate is good but please be respectfull to everyone.

So… one of the issues that ive recently been reading about is something called “DES” ((diethylstilboestrol)
DES (diethylstilbestrol) is a synthetic form of estrogen, a female hormone. It was prescribed between 1938 and 1971 to help women with certain complications of pregnancy,(mainly for repeated miscarriges),It is estimated that over 300,000 UK women and 10 million women world wide had this drug during their pregnancy, A study published in August 2006 found that women whose mothers took DES during pregnancy have almost double the risk of breast cancer.
des-action.org.uk/media1.html
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16896041
This study was of interest to me as my own mum took this drug after 3 Miscarriage , so… maybe a possible link to my own particular breast cancer? i dont know ,but maybe another possible piece of the Jigsaw, i certainly want to question my oncologist about it anyway.
Not sure if any other ladies here have a connection to DES but it would be interesting to know.

I might of course be the only one whos interested in all this stuff lol but please share your views if youd like too
Thanks Ladies.
Linda x

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Hi Lindiloo good idea for a thread.

My background is probably that of a ‘typical’ breast cancer candidate (although i didn’t realise it as I didn’t bother to find out). I am over 50, I was overweight, I drank over the minimum levels ie a couple of glasses of wine every evening. I had dense breast (so my tumour never showed up on a mammogram) and I don’t have any children (again I believe a factor). In additon my Sister had breast cancer diagnosed at 51 and we are currently going for genetic testing. so I ticked all the box’s without even realising it!

In addition i went through IVF treatment when I was younger. I couldnt concieve naturally (blocked fallopion tubes) and I am sure I read somewhere that having had IVF treatment increases the risk to breast cancer. IVF was not sucessful for us.

I think i was a walking BC timebomb and didn’t realise. x

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Hiya saffronseed,
It all just seems so ramdom sometimes doesnt it?,some of us seem to tick some or all of the boxs , and some dont seem to tick any, thank you for shareing your story ,its realy helpfull knowing others expierences, im realy sorry that IVF wasnt susessfull for you ,big hugs to you.
Linda x

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My Mum got BC at 29 with no previous family history on either side.
She was slim, had me at 19, drank rarely amd breast fed.

I know she had very dense breasts, bad pmt and was told she was too young for bc. She died just over a year later.
At the time my family were told it was probably caused by the pill (which at that time was high oestrogen).

I started my periods early, struggled with horrendous pmt.I gained weight easily but was very conscious of what I ate. I did drink a fair bit at university (as did everyone).
I suffered with non-cyclical breast pain from the age of 21 which was at times excruciating.I was following a very low fat diet (hip and thigh) I was prescibed evening primrose (which I now know is high in Omega 6).
I had problems conceiving and had bad hormonal fluctuations. I also had IVF that failed and resulted in ovarion hyperstimulation. After a few cycles I conceived naturally.
I breastfed for 7 months and lost all baby weight, was fit and active although did eat a lot of diet foods ( low fat marg= transfat).
My non cyclical breast pain (in the eventual tumour site) came back with vengeance. I was prescribed mega starflower/primrose oil.
I suffered extreme stress as a teacher returning to work in difficult , stressful times, redundancies, too much responsibility etc. I had a lot of ibs at that point also.

As you can see it is very complicated already:-
early menarche-tick
alcohol-tick
history-tick

However in my heart of hearts i think it is the combination of a few things
-hormonal imbalance made worse by failed ivf
-something to do with fats in the blood (omega 3 and 6) linked to the pain and possible tumour
-dense breasts easily effected by hormones
-extreme stress causing digestive problems (possible link with acid/alkali thing)
-definite influence of something in environment (maybe plastics, xeno-oestrogens, trans-fats)
Oh and the biggest things of all, being a woman and bloody unlucky

Sorry Linda, not really what you wanted I know. Not may links or upto date research…but maybe it will develop.
Julie

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HI Lindiloo great name for a thread but poss we get as many theories as there are ladies. However this need to look at poss causes has been on my mind so very much. I have 2 really big risk factors-female and over 50.But what else ??? On the plus side I had a healthy diet sorry do not mean to open up probs there. Don’t smoke, hardly drink, very regular exercise 5 + times a week until chemo interrupted some of that, no family history, very few blokes in my family mainly female for 4 generations and still am the only one with BC, 2 children normal pregnancies and deliveries and I breast fed both exclusively 7 months for 1st and nearly a year with 2nd ( so much for b-f being a protective factor LOL)Oh and yes I did take HRT . Other than all that I had recently undergone a split from my OH, was trying to sell the house unsuccessfully for 18 months, and had a very stressful job but it seems to me that none of that marks me out from loads of the female population. Still puzzling not sure about environmental factors. Already seems random.
Would welcome any other comments to this thread. J

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I was diagnosed at 42. Never smoked or drank (just cos I didn’t like either), not overweight, average diet but no kids and was on pill for about 6 yrs. Family history - my mum, both her sisters and their only female cousin. My aunt was the youngest to be diagnosed before me and she was 54 at the time (20+ yrs ago). No females on dad’s side as he was an only child, so that makes 5 out of 6 females with bc. Mum and I insisted on genetic testing but we were both negative.

I would like to know the cause of my cancer and have sent blood samples to somewhere like the ICR as they are doing research into it - from what I gather why people with large family history test negative for brca1 and 2 so why do they then get it?

Like juliet66 says, it must be down to being a woman !!

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Just 3 years ago I retrained as a teacher. I found the job to be extremely stressful. Juggling my work and own kids (I am a single parent) meant I never stopped. I was on the go all the time, and found it impossible to relax because there was always something to do. I cannot help but believe that this intensely stressful lifestyle contributed to my illness. Prior to diagnosis, I was really run down and had lost so much weight, all my clothes hung off me.
There is no history of bc in my family. I breast fed all my children and I have never been overweight.

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Hi

I have no family history of breast cancer, except a great (great ?)aunt on my father’s side who had bc and then survived 20+ years to die eventually at a ripe old age of something different.

I had normal periods, started the pill at around 18 and stayed on it till almost 30 (? - can’t remember exactly).

Drank FAR TOO MUCH at university and occasionally for a few years after that, and have felt terribly guilty on occasion thinking that for me that is what caused my cancer! Hasn’t stopped me drinking, though, albeit moderately :slight_smile:

Was 37 at diagnosis, no kids as yet, although have since given birth to a daughter.

I have always lived and eaten reasonably healthily (apart from episode off rails described above), have never been overweight and while not a fanatical fitness freak I used to keep reasonably fit.

Was prone to depression in my teens and twenties. Managed to shake that off with a solo backpacking adventure in south america when I was 30. Haven’t suffered any major illnesses, traumas, stresses.

Had a benign growth in the other breast removed a couple of years before my bc diagnosis. Had had that lump for at least a decade. In 1997(8?) I’d had an ultrasound scan on my breasts and was told that I had ‘lumpy breasts’.

Think that, in my case, if it wasn’t a combination of pill, alcohol and no kids (pre-bc), then it was a genetic failure caused by ???, and I’m just another of the unlucky ones (if it happens to 1 in 9, then some of us are going to be the 1).

Alison

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Hi Julie and Libby,
Thank you for shareing your expierences and stories, Julie,im so sorry to hear that you lost your mum at such a young age to this cruel b***ard desease, life can be so bloody cruel sometimes.

I too had a 3+ yr period of chronic stress pre BC, sudden unexpected family deaths (including my dad),job losses, different house moves , serious accidents involving close family members(sister/brother inlaw)even my otherwise healthy beautifull dog died suddenly (she was just 2) of a brain seizure ,just like that, no warning, i used to dread the phone ringing as it always seemed bad news ,then of course within a few mths i was DX, so cant help but think sometimes that all this played a part in my own DX, im pretty sure my immune system was pretty low at that point anyway.
I also think plastics,xeno-oestrogens,and the environment have an impact on the current ever increasing cancer rates ,so many chemicals, they seem to be in everything today.
Then yes,being a woman and bloody unlucky ,thats one risk factor that we all share.
Thanks Ladies x

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Hi All
I too am over 50. I have had one child and there is no history of BC in my family. I had a very good menopause and by the time I was 51 I had finished having periods. During the menopause I took Phytofem? (spelling??) and Well Woman tabs. When I was 50 I developed a seriously over active thyroid and was treated for this (steriods) Carbimozole for approx 2 years. I put on nearly 3.5 stone whilst on steroids but lost the weight when I was taken off them. I then became really fit & felt very healthy and good about myself. Within 2 years I was dx with tumour grade 3 invasive and one DCIS following a routine scan. Not sure if there are any links here but I have spoken to other women with BC and some have also said they have had thyroid problems. Well - who knows??
Love to all - Cory
NB - this is a good thread XX

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Hi cory,
Interesting to hear about your Thyriod problems , i was DX with multiple thyroid nodules after a CT scan , am borderline at the minute, but have been told i will eventualy become hyperthyriod so haveing regular blood tests (3mthly), i know my thyriod is definately getting bigger as i am awear of it when i swallow, feels like a lump in my throat, i can see it getting bigger too, wonder if there is a link with this too?
Thanks everyone.

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I was also on the pill ,but only for about 5 yrs, before having my 3 children (then made OH get the snip lol)so not sure just how much of an effect the pill may have had, also use to suffer with frequent panic attacks most of my adult life and heart palpatations (not connected to the panic attacks),so maybe a possible link to a hormone inbalance there, interestingly since BC i dont seem to get any panic attacks now. realy not sure of any of these being connections as was told i was only weakly er/pr+ anyway.
Back to the drawing board.
This makes for interesting reading but a very long read.
national-toxic-encephalopathy-foundation.org/ca2010.pdf

Realy Good to hear everyones expierences ,keep them coming ladies.
Linda x

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MY BCN actually told me mine was most likely caused by my 2nd pregnancy 2 years earlier. I was 34 with no family history and 100%+ for both hormones.

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hi all

i was dx at 51 should have been a low risk my mum had bc at 70 but onc said there was no connection just bad luck we both had it.
I have never been overweight ( heaviest now i am on aromasin) had children in my early 20 s , breastfeed them, also kept the neo natal supplied for 4 months as well, never smoked, didnt drink as a young woman (54 now) but later on became a social drinker a few years before my dx i had a VERY stressful few years and i really do think that this has had a great deal to do with it.I was only on the pill for about 3years in total too but i did have a very late miscarriage ( nearly 5 months ) which was probably hormonal but they could not give me answers at the time this was when i was 26 so maybe this was a factor, just in waiting to surface. dont know if this will help.

best wishes
hugs annie

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Linda - very interesting thread.
I am 41, diagnosed Oct’10. Still going through treatment, and have not had mastectomy yet, so final analysis has not been done, but have been told it is grade3, invasive, HER++++ and ER+ too.

I was on the pill for ten years from 17-27, partly to control very heavy periods. I had my first child at 26, second at 28, and the last at 36. All were breast fed for at least a year. I also used the Merina implant for 5 years each time, before and after my last baby. To add to that I was given Clomid to conceive with both my first and second babies. It was the minimum dose, and I conceived on the second, and first cycles. So, a total of 20yrs on some sort of hormone based contraception, plus fertility drugs…

I have always drunk socially, but over the recommended guidelines- ie a bottle of wine shared with my husband at dinner, but most nights. Not, I hasten to add though when pregnant or breastfeeding!!

I am reasonably fit and healthy. Not fat, a size 14. I eat my 5 a day, and a well-balanced diet that contains meat, fish and dairy.

No history of BC in the family.

The last couple of years could be described as being stressful, but I think I have coped with that ok.

There it is! That’s me!
Tracey

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Hi I was diagnosed at 45.My mum was diagnosed in her early 40’s,I haven’t had genetic testing but do believe that there is a link there.I was overweight as a child but from the age of 16 onwards I was always dieting and managed to stay a size 12 until I had my first child at 25 I put a lot of weight on then and carried that around for about 3 years then lost it again.I am fighting the fat again but am losing it gradualy.I didn’t breast feed my children so thats another risk AND I drank quite a lot through my teens and early 20’s then settled down and only had occasional drink at special events.am tee-total now and have been for about 8 years.I was actually stress free and had been for many years before I was diagnosed,but had many other risk factors.

Melxx

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Hi all

I got bc at 58. No family history, never smoked, don’t drink much-odd glass of wine, had two sons in late twenties and breast fed both, never been over weight (BMI 21), on pill for about a year only, walk and cycle everywhere and dance twice a week.

My only possible suspects are poor sleep - I read this was a factor somewhere. For years I have only managed an average of 4-6 hours a night and am nearly always tired. I spent many early hours listening to the World Service. Bizarrely since being in hosp for 11 nights up to New year, I have been sleeping 8 hours a night and feel so much better for that.
Also I was an infant teacher and as many will now the job has become extremely stressful. I could see myself heading for a breakdown, so decide to leave when my husband retired. That was 5 years ago and I don’t regret it. I now have a part time, busy but stress free job, not much pay but we can manage.

I guess it’s as others say - being a woman and unlucky.

Maybe you’ll find the answer.

Stella

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Good thread Linda

Hate to say it but I agree with you! lol

The plastics and xeno-oestrogens, the environment all the chemicals we ingest through food and cleaners and cosmetics etc must all play a part in the rapidly increasing rates of cancers especially bc.

The stress link is very interesting too. I had just had 2 extremely stressful years before dx, leaving an unhappy marriage, horrible, evil ex-husband trying to get custody of the kids, grieving for family members and just living with a constant shadow over my life with court cases etc. Ironically my life had just sorted itself out and I was the happiest I had ever been when I got my dx.

Additionally though, I grew up on a dairy farm so loads of milk and a lot of home-reared meat, started my periods early, very heavy periods so on the pill at only 15, smoked from about then too and had about 8 years of wild and crazy partying. After about 26 though, I was very healthy, not smoking or drinking (only occasionally nights out with the girls really) and ate a very healthy diet with a lot of fruit and veg, much of it organic.

I have read in the Cancer-active books that going on the pill and smoking early are about the worst things a young woman can do in relation to bc. So if any of you have daughters in their teens, it may be something to keep in mind.

Its funny though, I don’t blame any thing and my only real regret is marrying my ex in the first place, but that is for other reasons, not just the bc. It may be shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, but for me I have made a lot of lifestyle changes (not just diet!), and a large part of those changes are about reducing and managing stress.

I do wish that the NHS had some sort of questionnaire/survey for every woman diagnosed and collated the data. My onc said that it was too much work to do it properly scientifically, but I am sure there would be some large trends coming through if they did.

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Apart from lots of bad luck! I guess I ‘fit in’ with the teacher(high stress levels) and IVF criteria, both of which have been discussed previously…surely too many of us to be a coincidence.

I have taught for 21 years a variety of ages, but mainly infants. My original diagnosis was 2006, just after I took on a particularly stressful mixed age class of 34 children!!!, whilst undergoing IVF!

My Mum was diagnosed in the Summer of 2006, I definately remember checking myself…possibly not correctly, but had a good feel and nothing was untoward. I began IVF in October, the hormone bit first to change the cycle, then in December felt a quite obvious lump when scratching my breast…I couldn’t have missed one that size on my initial examination. Had to abandon IVF and begin treatment. I then began Zoladex before the chemo and had ‘tumour flare’ and it increased even more. This evidence strongly suggest a surge in hormones affected me. I am 100% ER+
(I took the pill for 8 years during my 20’s)

In September last year I took a promotion at work which involved further study and more stress! and then found a few months later tht I had secondaries.

With regard to other factors, I have never smoked or dieted, have kept a constantish weight (until hormone treatments! ) and non-relevant family history, my Mum was over 70 and unlucky and I tested negative for any known BRCA genes. I only drink in moderation, odd glass of wine at weekends. Have always slept well. Had one child at 30 and breast fed.

Stress and excess hormones! could be a coincidence but as more people respond, I wonder if we’ll see a pattern?

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Thats intresting about going on the pill and smoking being the worst things to do. They are two things I haven’t done lol.I was advised not to take the pill because of my mum having breast cancer.

Melxx