Does Late Reacurrance happen to everybody

Hi All,

I’m constantly on here at the moment as I am honestly having a breakdown I’m waiting now on my results from surgery and SLNB I can’t cope with life at all at the moment and see no hope that even if my Primary Cancer is removed that it is hopeless as I’m already infested with doormant or hidden cells that will eventually kill me. Even if its in 20 years time. Im 43 at the moment.

Does this Cancer sometimes never come back…

I am feeling so hopeless and petrified of a reacurrance as all I read is high ER+ HER neg cancers come back later. I just want to be told its ok and its never coming back, but I’m never going to hear this :tired_face::sob:

Sorry for emotional rant/vent but I’m exhausted :weary: :sleepy: :tired_face:

14 Likes

I am so sorry, Kat. This is something we all struggle with although it will get better in time as you just get used to it. You’re still at the early stages grieving that your body let you down, trying to wrap your head around how to incorporate this into your worldview. It’s a soul changing thing. In saying that though, yes, most women will go on to live their lives without a recurrence. I know it doesn’t appear that way on-line because there is such a great community here of stage 4 women. You have to remember though that most women who aren’t stage 4 just fade away to go back to living their lives. But they’re out there in droves. One of my dear friends is 16 years out, my ex MIL the last I heard was 25 years out, another one of my friend’s mothers is I think 30 years out. So yeah, tons. But what’s hard to learn to cope with, but you will, is that no one can tell you that you’ll be one of them. You’ll never know if you’re cured of breast cancer until you die at old age of something else. That’s really hard to reconcile your head to. I do it by remembering that it’s the case for everybody and I’m no different. My neighbor doesn’t have cancer that he knows of but he can die in a car wreak tomorrow. My co-workers may not have cancer right now that they know of but it can change next week. In other words, no one is guaranteed anything in this life and I’m no different. So I try to stay focused on today. Today I feel good, today I played five games of pickleball and won three, today I have no pain and no inkling that anything is going on with my body that shouldn’t be. And I have decided that is good enough. I’ll deal with tomorrow when it comes but today…today is good.

38 Likes

I was initially terrified of recurrence too @kat-jack but everything that Kay has said is true. The odds for you to live a recurrence-free life are good even though there are no guarantees. It is also true that it does get easier to come to terms with the uncertainty but you’re at the very start of the process so that is difficult for you to believe.

Have you taken the opportunity to have the six free counselling sessions from MacMillan? If not, that would give you a chance to discuss your fears with trained counsellors. At the very least, go to your GP and explain that your diagnosis is seriously impacting your mental health as your doctor should be able to refer you to services that can help.

14 Likes

I have read that about 1/3 of us get recurrence/stage 4.
But, it isn’t the quick death sentence that many imagine, we can live for many years and be well for years as treatments emerge and improve. We are encouraged to think it advanced cancer as a chronic illness these days.
All the best to you

5 Likes

Hi Kinden! That statistic is often quoted but is not true. No one really know the percentage but it’s well less than 30%.

4 Likes

Hello again @kat-jack

As both @Tigress and @Kay0987 have both said fear of recurrence is something that everyone who has ever had any form of a cancer diagnosis lives with every day.

I would definitely recommend getting some counselling to help with the psychological effects of the diagnosis, it was by far the hardest part for me as the physical effects were minimal and I was through it all in six months.

Before you enter this world, it looks like a really scary place: you look around and see all sorts of people and you’ve heard all those words like “brave” “warrior” and the like, to be honest none us actually wear those labels, we were all once where you are now, we kept going, put one foot in front of the other and do so every day.

Sending you lots of hugs :hugs:

AM xxx

PS when I was diagnosed the only person I had known to have a BC diagnosis was my husband’s grandmother who had a diagnosis and mastectomy in her 50’s in the 1970’s she died at the age of 96

10 Likes

Hi @kat-jack,

I’m in a similar situation to you. Just turned 44, single mastectomy in 7 days then the waiting game again for results. I don’t think the fear ever goes away but I’m trying to not to let it control me and the best advice I’ve been given is to stay away from Google. It honestly sent me a little crazy. The Bupa/Mcmillan counselling sessions have been worth it and could help. If you need to chat, I’m here. Keep us updated on your results and sending nothing but best wishes. X x

10 Likes

Hi Kat-Jack

I am exactly the same as you…but two years out. There are trials ongoing at the moment looking at the dormant cell issue (look up CLEVER trial breast cancer and TREAT trial). The first is looking at dormant cells in the bone marrow and others look at catching very early relapse in the blood and trying to treat it. You may be eligible for the TRAK-Er study through the marsden also as this is nationwide. You can request the pack through the nurses.

Anyway, the 30% figure is based on 1990s patients and is probably not accurate now. Some of those patients were HeR2 but no herceptin was available then, it was 2ns gen chemo only etc, ovarian suppression was not routine until after the text and soft trials published.

There is probsbly no escaping the fear but I tell myself drugs, vaccine research and catching relapse methods are evolving every single month.

it does get easier with time. I still panic every day…but not for much of it. Usually just first thing and then before sleep. My days are now fairly normal. I do keep up with latest trials etc though and am about to join the ember4 one myself. Also look that up.

All the best xx

8 Likes

Thankyou all for you replies, help and supportive words.

I’m a little less crazy today but that’s mostly down to being exhusted.

Helen39, this information was so useful thankyou so much. The TRAK-Er is actually being done at my local small offsite hospital only 15mins from me and looks like I would be able to do this. :blush:

6 Likes

Hello @kat-jack
I’m 2 half years out and think about this every day even if only for a moment. What helps keep me calm is being in charge of what I can control. Mindset, food, activities.
I had counselling and found it very helpful also had a very good GP who gave me fantastic advice. Do whatever it takes to get rid of cancer and keep it away. 6 months of chemo, double mastectomy and Ovaries removed. My life has changed for the better even though I have been to hell and back.
Eventually you will learn to put your fears to the back of your mind and bring forward in your mind the neway of life you are going to live to the max. First tho get rid of cancer.
I always like to know what I can do to help myself and read up on holistic ways to keep me healthy. If you are into reading buy yourself a couple of books and put yourself a self help plan together to keep you positive. Some good reads
Chris beat cancer - Chris Wark
Breaking the cancer code - Dr rubio
You may also be interested in this

Take control, be strong, be positive, there is plenty of us here to help you along
Xxx

2 Likes

I am

@Kay0987 Well said live for today as tomorrow is not promised and make memories. :blush::+1:

1 Like

I have very similar fears and thought I was going mad - questioning every single decision of my oncologist e.g. finishing chemo earlier due to neuropathy etc.
I am 41, had single mastectomy, now on goserelin, letrozol, zomita and likely to start Abemaciclib next month…

Was thinking about Trak-ER trial although that would mean not taking Abemaciclib which would be not good idea.

My surgeon told me today that even if dormant cells are there they may never wake up and sometimes it is better not to know as otherwise we can drive ourselves crazy. There may be some merit in it although not sure yet I agree.

Is anyone doing any trials?

Hi
I’m in the same mind set at the moment.
Just recovering from surgery last week from BC diagnosed on Jan 2nd.
The responses on the forum have been so useful to see but like a petulant child I still have an irrational need to be told it’s gone and will never come back. The more I read the more I fear so I don’t read then I feel ill informed and isolated.
I’ve always had good control of my life and been responsible in all I’ve done. Never abused myself and stayed fit. It all feels so unfair, unpredictable and individual - no two peoples situation seems to be the same despite the generic use of the term breast cancer.

4 Likes

Hi kat-jak

Not been here for a while but read your post and wanted all ladies out there who are feeling the fear of recurrence or new primary to know there are ladies like me - 10 years after diagnosis and just had my 10th mammogram which was all clear or NED. Kay0987 is right that the feelings do subside as time goes on, it never goes away completely but we do manage to go forward. I can honestly say that a few days before each mammogram the fear rumbles to the surface and when you do get that nod to say its ok relief floods in and the fear goes away again.

Post treatment we all live for today and try not to worry about tomorrow, non-cancer people just arent aware of their mortality like we are, let your worries out here it is a safe place.

This forum is brilliant and was my saviour when going through surgery, chemo, surgery again then radiotherapy because all the ladies are open and honest. But you do have to remember that there are a lot of us who dont post regularly as we are further on but we do pop up now and again just to let you know we are out there. take care everyone and be kind to yourselves XXX

19 Likes

Hi Helen! You’re not petulant nor irrational. You’re scared. We all are. We all want to be told we beat it. It’s completely rational to want to know that you’re not going to die of breast cancer. It’s just not possible. A good therapist can help you work through this need and find perspective so that even though it’s always going to be there, it doesn’t dominate your life. Or dictate your fears.

5 Likes

Thank you so much for your replies.
I’ve seen the BCN today and agreed to some more support over next few months. I think I need to see how things go treatment wise and then start to rebuild my psychological bases… everything has shifted. I’m sure it’s do able with time.

2 Likes

It is most certainly but it does take time and support. So glad you’re getting the support and the time will take care of itself :slight_smile:

1 Like

@ helen3 Hi :wave: after treatment i was doing well and then in September this dark cloud came over me. Thank God i was aware something wasn’t right so went to my GP increased happy pills lol and back with my therapist Sam who i have checked in from time time and its amazing how talking helps lift your spirit. Do what you have to do, and its quite natural what you are feeling because we have all been there, going there don’t be afraid to reach out it’s healthy lots of prayers and hugs your way​:butterfly:

1 Like

Grade and size of tumour makes a big difference. However I read somewhere that recurrence is a steady 1% a year for ER positive tumours. I took that to mean that year1 after diagnosis 1% would get some kind of recurrence (not sure whether this includes recurrence of original cancer, a new primary or secondaries).

So when I got diagnosed with a new primary in 2022, first diagnosis in 2003, 19 years later I decided I had a 19% chance of recurrence of some kind. That means roughly a fifth of people with ER+ would be rediagnosed.

I’m still not clear about it as I had DCIS as well (focal they said in 2003) and the kind of breast cancer I got diagnosed with in 2022 was a different grade (Grade 2 this time, Grade 1 first time) and kind of ductal cancer (Glycogen-rich clear cell in 2003, No special type (NOS) in 2022) so I did get breast cancer again in 2022. I also had a history of atypical hyperplasia which means abnormal cell division in large numbers in one of my left breast ducts which is associated with later breast cancer.

If a woman develops breast cancer it usually happens after 60. I was first diagnosed at 48. Between 40 and 49 the risk is 2 in 100 women or 2%. Aged 50-59 it’s 4 in a 100 women or 4%. It goes up again between 60-69 to 8 in a 100 women. 8%.

So the risk doubles roughly every ten years and is a disease mainly developing in older age.

When I found my lump in 2003 I conveniently ignored all the statistics. I decided it was a fibroadenoma, i.e. a benign lump, confirmed by seven fine needle aspirations that found nothing. Because of my age, I decided to have the lump out anyway, as I was worried about it and wanted it out.

The numbers of women diagnosed in total in the UK has increased since 2003 from 30,000 a year to more like 46,000 a year so I think either there are more women in these age groups now, or the definition of breast cancer has widened to include DCIS and atypical hyperplasia.

Around the same number of women are dying of breast cancer each year as did so in 2003 and before that, as the actual number it been around 12,500 women for a long time.

So most people diagnosed with breast cancer appear not to die of it.

I truly hope you don’t have a recurrence and that you survive it, but there are unfortunately no guarantees. I am now fully reconciled to the fact that I am going to die of something and that if breast cancer doesn’t get me, something else will, possibly a side effect of treatment or possibly another cancer, but more probably Alzheimers and/or heart disease. The average life expectancy for a UK woman is now about 86. I am now 68 so have maybe 18 years left.

Seagulls

3 Likes