Can anyone tell me please if flax seed oil is safe to take if you are hormone receptor positive?
thanks
Anthi
Hi Anthi
I take it you are worried about the phyto estrogen content. I used to take it but stopped because I was told the jury was out as to whether it was of any help or not. I have a leaflet which says it can act as a estrogen blocker. However, more recent research has been saying they are not so sure. If I have any doubts about things, I tend to leave out. It will be interesting to see what others have to say on this subject. I am 100% hormone receptor positive.
Regards.
Jeannie
Hi Anthi
It is always advisable to check with your medical team before taking any supplements, particularly if you are currently undergoing treatment.
Alternatively, you are very welcome to contact our helpline who can advise on this subject.
The helpline number is 0808 800 6000 and is open Monday to Friday 9am-5pm and Saturday 9am-2pm.
Kind regards
Sam
Moderator
Breast Cancer Care
Many thanks for your replies Jeannie and Sam
Best wishes
Anthi
I have a hypothesis which may or may not be right.
For several years before dx, I had been taking either flaxseed or flax oil on my cereal daily.
There seems to be some evidence to support the theory that omega supplements (oil, seed) may be inhibitory to HER2+ cancer.
her2support.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=27882
My tumour was weakly HER2+/ER+/PR+. Fortunately, it had not gone anywhere, which is why I received neither chemo nor herceptin.
I do wonder whether inadvertently I had been helping myself. Will never know, but do find this theory fascinating.
Mcgle
There is also scientific evidence that that GLA is inhibitory to HER2 pos cancer which you may be interested in. Read about Dr Menendez’ publsihed work at sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/11/051104072900.htm. This substance also enhances the efficacy of Herceptin. For this reason I take six capsules a day of Starflower oil which has a fairly high quantity within it.
The jury isn’t ‘out’ on these supplements. There is just no profit in doing the research in a substance which cannot be patented. It has been known for many years that diet can affect the outcome and research is now beginning to admit it, but somewhat grudgingly. Such a diet is stringent, but often has good effect. Flax seed oil is an essential component of anti-cancer diets, but read up about it first. I understand that taking a high dose should be undertaken for a few weeks at best, then reduced.
A good source of information about useful supplements for people with cancer is canceractive.co.uk - one such supplement is vitamin D3 as recommended by Dr Downing, but not in the doses you might be accustomed to.
My HER2 positive cancer had not gone anywhere either, but I was still recommended the full ‘treatment’ works, which I declined.
Good fortune go with you.
Thank you for that link, Dark Lady.
I just had surgery, rads and tamoxifen. Neither chemo nor herceptin were recommended - hope this was right. Am now nearly two years down the line and feel fine.
At the end of the day, you go with your gut. My surgeon is now aware of the flax seed theory, as I brought in some research to show him. I don’t think he has many like me!
I wish you well.
Mcgle
Thanks Dark Lady and Mcgle for your comments. It’s all very interesting.
Mcgle you say that your tumour was weakly HER2+/ER+/PR. Do you know what number/score of ER/PR you were as you are taking Tamoxifen?
Thanks again
Anthi
Yes, Anthi, I can tell you that.
ER+ 8/8, PR+ 6/8, HER2+ (2.71 by FISH)
I hasten to add that I have taken it upon myself to continue with the flax seed / flax oil, as I am convinced of its beneficial effects. My clinicians have passed no comment on my decision …
Mcgle
Thanks again Mcgle.
Take care
Anthi
Message for DarkLady
Hi DarkLady
I’m a little confused over Flaxseed Oil. I was told that flaxseed oil contains high levels of phytoestrogen and because I was 100% ER and PR positive I should come off it. I am bothered with hot flushes at the moment. I had talk time with Bristol Cancer recently - they would not recommend Red Clover because of the phytoestrogen content. Are we saying phytoestrogens are helpful to HER2+ but not ER and PR cancers? The whole phytoestrogen business confuses me.
I can remember you from a previous posting. You gave me some very helpful advice about mistletoe which I decided to continue with. Thank you.
Keep well.
Regards.
Jeannie
Jeannie - sorry to butt in but perhaps Dark Lady can correct me too if I’m wrong.
As I understand it now, it isn’t the phyto-oestrogens which are helpful to HER2 but the GLA. I have decided not to take flax seed oil because I am ER+/PR+ .
However because I’m also HER2+ I shall try to get extra GLA from another source like Starflower oil as suggested by Dark Lady.
I am also troubled by dreadful hot flushes but am avoiding all oestrogens including phyto oestrogens.
Take care everyone
Anthi x
Hi Anthi
Please, you are not butting in, we are all here to help and learn from one and other.
Just after posting my message I managed to find a handout I got from my “Living with Breast Cancer” Course which I attended in March 2007. Under a heading Phytoestrogens it says: Not certain what effect they have on breast cells and breast cancer - current evidence contradictory. That about sums it up for me.
Take care.
Love
Jeannie
Most of the research done on phyto-oestrogens is done on individual extracts and often on laboratory mice. It is extremely difficult to study human diet unless you lock the humans in and give them a restricted diet and measure inputs and outputs, which is why the results are conflicting. Also, there’s no great industry behind fruit and veg. but there are major vested interests trying to discredit complementary medecine.
As there are phyto-oestrogens in many, many vegetables and some fruits and we know the benefits to our health of eating a wide range of these, I urge you not to throw out the baby with the bath water and dispense withe the protective benefits of foods of plant origin. If you are concerned about concentrated source but can benefit from the anti-hot flush effect of flaxseeds, ditch the oil which is an extract and stick to the whole golden flax seeds - ground up, and take around a desertspoonful a day divided across your main meals, such as with cereals, sprinkled on salads, etc. I don’t think concentrated or extracted ANYTHING is a good idea - take what nature provides in the form it provides it - seed, leaves, etc. grind and juice these to get the most out of the goodness these contain. Only where cancer or its treatment provokes or results from a deficiency, such as in selenium if you come from a selenium-poor soil area, (these days virtually all supermarket fruits and veggies are short on selenium), or B12 if you are vegan, does it make sense to supplement, but not continuously. I get vitamin D in its natural form in cod liver oil, which I have included in my diet reluctantly (no I wouldn’t eat cod’s liver even if it were available! I treat the oil as a necessary but natural evil) but which gives me the essential fatty acids too, and from sunshine. It is easy to overdose on vitamin D - this actually weakens the bones, so beware of “a little is good so more must be better”. Get advice before supplementing anything and follow the dosage instructions. For cod liver oil, it is 2 teaspoonfuls a day for a person of 60-70kgs. It’s a fine line. Double this would be MUCH too much for bone health.
Remember that to get as much oestrogen from plant sources as you do from animal sources, milk or beef, for instance, you would have to eat 500 times as much! So no to supplements and extracts and concentrates and yes to a wide range of fruits, vegetables, seeds and nuts and no heavy reliance on just one type, These are the guidelines I follow in a nutshell.
I have heard from 2 women who had horrendous hot flushes that the Bristol Homeopathic Hospital had been a great help - one woman went from 180 a day down to 10 in the first few days of treatment. Unfortunately there’s no one remedy - needs to prescribed on an individual basis, so maybe homeopathy holds the key for you?
Hope this helps.
Wishing you well,
Jenny.
Hello Jenny and thanks for your very helpful post.
Take care
Anthi
jennyw is absolutely right of course - it is extremely difficult to research the effect of diet on health or disease. However, bear in mind that potential drugs are always tested in vitro first, for effectiveness against cancer cells, and this is how GLA was found to be effective against HER2 positive cancer cell lines. The author of that piece of research, Dr Menedez, is reputed to have said that it is not too difficult to ingest enough to create effective levels in the bloodstream.
As for the idea that we should get all our nutrients from natural sources, that is a great ambition, but if cancer is the result of a deranged metabolism, which some doctors think it is, then the aim is to correct that by taking large amounts of one substance or another in order to encourage correct metabolism and tip it into the right direction.
Certain nutrients have definite anti-cancer properties. For example, beta-carotene is the pre-cursor of vitamin A, apples contain “Triterpenoids which isolated from Apple Peels Have Potent Antiproliferative Activity May be Partially Responsible for Apple’s Anticancer Activity” as Cornell University published in May this year. These beneficial chemicals are in the skins,and some apples have more of these chemicals than others. The idea of drinking large quantitities of organic apple and carrot juice seems almost reasonable now,.doesn’t it. And in yesterday’s Guardian, wasn’t an article published about the anti-cancer properties of red and purple foods such as grapes and blueberries? This was in vitro research using extracts of the phytochemicals and cancer cells by Ohio State University. Then there are Salvestrols, discovered by Prof. Potter and found to have significant anti-cancer benefits, with research being undertaken in the UK. These are exciting times for nutritionists, so why are not people with cancer being urged by their doctors to eat these foods in quantity?
I think it is perfectly reasonable to eat large quantities of such foods for these benficial anti-cancer properties, and not to worry about the amount. As for vitamin D3 - RDA is 200 iu a day but research suggests that we need much more than this, and recent research suggests that 200 iu has no effect on bone at all. Some doctors believe that the,majority of people in Northern climates are deficient in vitamin D. A good sunbathing session for half an hour (without getting burned) will get you more than 20,000 iu if young, (So do we poison oursleves during the summer?) 10,000 if old. So read up on your research, check out canceractive.co.uk and if you find the research plausible, increase your intake… Once healthy again, and that can take a year or two, then that is the time to eat normal amounts from natural sources to keep the beast away.
Hi, Darklady. I’m with you on the huge protions of fruit veg and juices and salvestrols. Nature’s Defense have been circulating recipes which show how to up your Salvestrols in your diet. Very interesting about apple peel - I can rarely get organic apples here so throw the peel away!
The D3 content in 2 teaspoonfuls of ultra pure cod liver oil is around 800iu - four times the RDA. Add this to sunshine and it seems a goodly dose. I agree to up it within safe limits.
One of these days I’ll post the data about levels which have negative efects on the bones. From sunshine the body makes what it needs - from oral supplements, the body is forced to accept whatever dose is given as I understand extra D3 isn’t commonly excreted.
Wishing you well,
Jenny
Ground flax seed vs Flax seed oil
You may be interested in this link - from a well qualified US dietician and nutritionist with research refs. to back it up - suggests that flax seed oil can promote cancer and that ground flax seeds suppress hormone driven cancers.
Check it out… anhs.org/Articles/flax_article.htm
If you are looking for a source of Omega 3 then flax seed oil contains 52%. It does not contain any phyto-oestrogens as they are in the lignan fibre of the seed. But there is evidence that shows that this oil without the other ingredients of the seed can be harmful.
Wishing you well,
Jenny
Very interesting article, Jenny.
Thanks for posting the link.
Mcgle