What a wonderful post Kay. There has to be a holistic approach and I really agree with doing everything possible to support the immune system
I absolutely agree. It is not just my diet that I have changed since dx. I now practise yoga, meditate and pray most days, walk most days. I work far less, spend more time with the kids and make more time for friends. Conversely I have leant to say ‘no’ to people and put my needs first more often. My household cleaning products use is at about 10% of what it was pre-dx. As is my use of cosmetics. Most of what I eat is organic.
And just so I don’t come across too sanctimonious I sat on the sofa with the kids last night watching junk telly and eating a Dominoes pizza!! lol But the kids loved it and it was a choice I made when I could have been out at a party.
Sorry to bring this back sharply onto topic but I’ve had a chance to read the EPIC fruit and veg and cancer risk study more thoroughly.
They state that 5 portions a day is about 400g. Again I’m astounded at that, it means I’m eating about 10 a day! Weigh a piece of fruit or a couple of large carrots and you’ll see what I mean. They did include tinned fruit and dried fruit. They did not though include juices, legumes, potatoes or other tubers.
Here’s what I gleaned (can’t say 100% I’ve got it all correct):
The average intake for all the participents was 335 grams per day
They found a statistically significant but small reduction in overall cancer risk with increase fruit and veg intake (especially vegetables) - they looked at an additional 200g.
The follow up period to see how many people had developed cancer was an average of 8.7 years
For a baseline they assessed the usual diet of participants over the past year using a food-frequency questionnaire. they also did a 24 hour dietary recall on 8% of the participants. There were no bloods taken to check actual intake.
The main problem with the study is that self reporting can be unreliable.
It would have been great to have seen a greater effect from fruit and veg. Even the small reduction in risk they don’t seem to think is conclusive:
‘A very small inverse association between intake of total fruits and vegetables and cancer risk was observed in this study. Given the small magnitude of the obsered assocations, caution should be applied in their interpretation’.
Well even if there is a potentially a small decrease in risk, I’m for that. So I’ll keep on with my veg juicing and my daily intake of fruit and veg.
Elinda x
xwelcomex, Kay and Gretchen, I agree pretty much. There are risk factors beyond everyone’s control, and genetics plays a part in tandem with the many other factors. In my view if you have a predisposition to develop bc genetically, minimising your other risk factors might delay or even prevent the onset. And if you’re fit and healthy, you heal more quickly and have more to fight the disease with. Just my personal opinion!
Elinda, I’ve seen a study somewhere that shows a statistically significant protective effect for high fruit and veg intake, but I can’t find it at the moment - will keep looking and put the link on when I do (think it’s a US one).
Lynne x
Lynne - there are US studies and the EPIC one refers to those. Also there was the recent one that Finty posted which was very interesting because it used actual blood samples. I felt very encouraged to consume more veg from that one.
Kay, Gretchen and xWelcomex, Lynne - totally agree diet is only part of a bigger picture.
I have just read/got Leslie Kenton’s Raw Energy Bible and have at last started juicing again, but not just fruit, veg as well! So feeling quite pleased with myself. However, reading what everyone has said about diet, lifestyle etc I don’t feel quite so guilty now that I scoffed my way through Afternoon Tea yesterday!
I have always eaten a healthy, well balanced diet and never smoked. All my family have lived until well into their 80’s, and 90’s in some cases, I just assumed that I would too. I have lived in Cumbria all my life and beside the sea for the last 25 years, with Heysham Nuclear power station across the Bay and Sellafield further up the coast. We also had fall out from Chernobyl on the Lakeland Fells. All these problems in Japan have made me think more about this and whether this could have been a factor? But then not everyone living in Cumbria all their life gets cancer! The only other thing I can possibly put it down to is a nasty chest infection I had in 2005/2006 which really floored me plus a stressful job. The combination may have been enough to suppress my immune system and let the cancer start (I found my primary lump in February 2007). We will probably never know. Suffice to say I am a lot more relaxed and stress free now. Apart from the obvious!!!
I do find that I feel better with eating more fruit and vegetables, I think I am healthier. Incidentally, my Neutrophils were back up to 3.3 this week, they haven’t been that good since my second dose of chemo! Could it be the fruit smoothies with the Sea Kelp, Milk THistle and Superfood powders?
I really back into juicing too. I did it through chemo and then stopped but now do it every day. I absolutely love carrot juice and also often do carrot, broccoli and pear.
I have wondered about things like chemicals. I read somewhere a while ago that people growing up in the 70s had a high exposure to chemicals as some of the things now banned weren’t around. There’s no history of cancer in my family, in fact all the women have been remarkably healthy and lived to a ripe old age.
I would say that my lifestyle is as healthy if not healthier than theirs. So who knows?
All we can do is our best to keep ourselves fit and healthy and not beat ourselves up if we lapse from time to time.
Elinda x
Hi Finty, Just like to add that this is a really great and important thread and because you stated objectives at the start, we are not having the usual angry, aggressive posts that appear when anything is the least bit alternative!!
I think one of the hard things in our society at present is the junk food that lines our shelves and is in every shop! We are continually fighting the advertistments and giant food chains that encourage us to eat unhealthy food.
I live in Folkestone in Kent and the McDonalds, KFC and Burger King are always FULL up!! Cheap food that is full of salt and sugar. Many people do not make the connection between what goes in their mouth and what effect it has on their body.
We need an NHS where what we eat is taken seriously. So many oncologists for instance, are not in the least bit interested in diet and no little about it, or do not think that there is any connection between disease and food!! Reading the posts on here confirms the lack of consistancy of messages that ladies get from their consultants.
Best wishes all and keep this thread going!!
Thanks Leadie, and I completely agree with you about junk food. I also know East Kent quite well, and I have to say it is a bit of a wasteland as far as health food is concerned - even the big supermarkets get progressively worse as you head out to the east coast.
I don’t hold out any hope of the NHS giving anything other than very bland advice about food - the government didn’t even support the “traffic light” scheme for food labelling when it was voted on in the EC recently. The food lobby is simply too powerful. It’s depressing.
thanks finty for showing me this forum.i feel that this is a good place for me!
im new on this board.diagnosed stage 4 and im currently NED.I dont live in the UK Im in Canada.I hoping we can all learn from eachother but most important we believe in wellness from natural methods and food.
im presently seeing my medical oncologist and i also see a naturalpathic oncologist.im presently doing Vitmain c infusions with my naturalpath onc and recommended supplements.im also on Femara and Metformin.
im sure most of you are aware of the book Anti-Cancer:A new Way of Life.The author is a 17 year brain cancer survivor,he is also a physician.the book is amazing and i always refer to it.I keep it in my kitchen for recipes and healthy food choice reminders.
for those who have not read the book,there is a YouTube clip with Dr.David S.shreider speaking at a university in california in the United States.its basically a short version of the book but its worth hearing him speak.even if you have already read the book.
one thing that Dr.David S.Shreider said in this video was since 1971 when richard nixon president of the united states,declared war on cancer,2 billion dollars has been spent on cancer research.
yes.2 billion dollars U.S!!
and what has been the result of all that well spent money?
about an extra 3 months survival time with chemo therapy in a large variety of cancers.3 months.i find it frightning.thats why i do not rely soley on my medical oncologist.i did do chemo to shrink my tumors.i had surgery.i got NED.i realize i am one of the fortunate ones.but,i want to avoid any more chemo as long as possible.thats why i have done my own searching and sought out a naturalpathic oncologist to help guide me.
Heres the YOutube link.Anti-Cancer:A New Way of Life (approx 50 min)
Morning Ladies interesting thread. I have always tried to eat lots of fruit and veg, but not always easy to avoid all the other rubbish available to us these days. Temptations etc. I have had quite a lot of stress in my life with work etc and often put BC blame on this. I suppose it is my way of dealing with it. I am eating even more fruit and veg now- more than ever including juicing daily but one thing does concern me is obviously all the fruits and veg have been exposed to chemicals. But then isn’t everything! Only got to walk outside my front door and we are exposed to horrible stuff. I will carry on with the above but when the nausea kicks in from the chemo will revert to bread… which adds the weight and been told to watch. Keep the interesting articles coming. Have a lovely day. Adi x
I thought this article from University of Surrey might also encourage us to increase or keep up our fruit and veg intake. I have posted it before but a while ago and had forgotten about it:
I had thought that it was a myth that diet could alter our body’s acidity and alkinity balance but apparantly it is not and can affect amongst other things the health of our bones:
‘As fruit and vegetables are broken down by the body to form alkaline bicarbonate, while the proteins in meat, dairy, and grains are metabolised into acid, this may explain why the incidence of osteoporosis is highest in areas with dairy-rich Western diets (despite their high calcium intake) and almost unheard of in places like Japan that have virtually no calcium intake from dairy products at all.’
I would like to stress i’m not making the leap that altering body Ph will prevent or eliminate cancer (which I know has been claimed by some websites) or even that it will have any direct impact on breast cancer. However, bone health is important for us all, for those with bone mets/going through menopause/on aromatase inhibitors etc. Also good news for those of us that have opted to go dairy free.
I like articles like this that motivate me to eat my greens!
Thanks 2x, I have watched the You Tube link and it is very interesting and reinforces all that I have read over the last few weeks. I will be going out looking for more cabbage and broccoli tomorrow.
Can anyone tell me if you can overdose on the stuff? I bought a jar of Superfood powder - very dark green - that is a dried substitute for everything green that should help. I have been having a teaspoon full every day for a few weeks now. Should I still have that plus the green veg juice?
THANK YOU THANK YOU That graph half way (about 38 mins) through that shows the combined effect of eating fruit & veg AND exercise is amazing, had me in floods of tears. (relief - I CAN do something to help) and ANGRY - why doesnt the NHS promote this better instead of banging on about 5 a day and a few bits of exercise a week - with no clear evidence like this graph - so simple to show us - they assume we see 'them ’ , the NHS etc up on pedalstalls and only to happy to do as they say - blindly. Wake up NHS !! there is so much info thrown at us its so difficult to sort the good stuff. we need to see the evidence.
So much in this video - must watch again and get my OH to too, need lots of support to change lifestyles. have ordered his book from Amazon - hey = there is a new edition just out so do be careful to get the new one with new results in - but it doesnt have the handy little book to go with it. keeping the cost down I guess.
VITAMIN D in blood. Watching the youtube video, it mentions Vit D level in blood - I’d love to know mine and if the Ca/vit D tablets I’m trying hard to remember to take (and at the right time, not close to whole grain food etc etc - nightmare !) are doing any good. Vit D from supplements not as good as sunshine he says, but our sunshine not about much and not that strong yet - Can we make enough from sun in the summer to last us through the winter ? I dont understand about how we store Vit D in the body.
Also re bone health and diet - as I have (or had) bone mets, and there is a history of osteoporosis in the family, this is something I’ve spent quite a bit of time reading up on. By coincidence I had a bone density (dexa) scan last week - I had one at dx in Oct 09, and this one is a new baseline for monitoring as I’ve just started Femara, which has a bone thinning effect. My bones were great at dx, in the high 90’s percentiles, but I completely gave up dairy three months later and was interested to see what if any affect would show in my bones a year later. Well, my bone density has gone up! It is now over 100% at both points (hip and lumbar spine)- I dare say the bisphosphonates I’m on have helped, but giving up dairy certainly doesn’t seem to have done me any harm. I eat a lot of plant sources of calcium, take Vit D and make sure I do weight bearing exercise every day (just walking). I could tell by the look on the radiologist’s face that she doesn’t see results like that too often!
How much Vit D3 are you taking? I have been taking 1000 I U per day since I started arimidex. I already have osteoporosis of the lumbar region not sure of the % though.
I’ve given up dairy as well and I’m a bit sceptical about the Adcal I’m prescribed. I eat loads of veg. Are you taking any calcium supplements?
I’m taking strontium instead of the bisphosphonate as I’m not sure my stomach could handle the tablets. I’m a bit scared of the possible thrombosis side effect of the strontium as I had a small artery blockage while on tamoxifen.
Anyway your news is inspiring!
Margaret
I’m taking 4,000 IU per day of Vit D3, and about 150mg of Calcium. I’ve only just started the bisphosphonate tablets so too early to tell what affect they are having on my stomach - I was on IV Zometa for a year before that. Would Zometa be an option for you if the strontium is a concern? Of course it has it’s own serious se’s to consider.
I eat loads of fruit and veg, and also use coconut milk on my cereal which contains calcium. I do think the exercise plays an important part too.
2X thanks so much for the video link - I read the book about a year ago, but I think some of the information in the video is new. Very powerful stuff - should be playing on a loop in every cancer waiting room.