For those interested in research on diet and cancer

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1041

Hi CM - I’m usually one for just through diet but I think vitamin D is particularly difficult. The main soures I believe are oily fish such as sardines and salmon, eggs and things that have been fortified with it such as cereal.
My acid reflux makes eating oily fish very difficult as it can bring on attacks. I do eat eggs but is it enough?

The other thing I’ve been reading is that people with darker skins are more likely to be Vit D deficient in the northern hemisphere. With my southern european roots and olive skin I suppose naturally for example I would be living in a hot, sunny climate and therefore getting more Vit D naturally.

Elinda x

1042

NHS link on Vitamin D sources:
nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Vitamin-D.aspx

1043

Interesting about the tinned tuna having lower mercury than the fresh - that explains why the Penny Brohn nutritionists recommended the tinned, I was a bit surprised at the time.

KL re the carb/protein balance - I’m not sure I would interpret the study as necessarily saying eat more protein, as that’s one area that the research is pretty unanimous on, but rather limit carbs to low GI carbs. Will have to check out amylose carbs - that’s a new one for me.

1044

Hiya - update re glucose control and type 2 diabetes (and maybe BC too). Main insights from session last night were:

limit fruit to 2 or 3 portions a day (palm size) - this includes dried fruts; avoid very ripe bananas as they are full of glucose

mega reduction in protein from what I’m used to - just two portions a day of meat, fish, eggs or pluses/beans. Portion size seems miniscule - 75g for meat, 125g for fish, 2 eggs and just 3Tblsp of veg protein sources. Insight for me was that the liver has to process the protein and so limited protein is all that is needed to avoid overworking the liver that leads to it increasing its glucose production.

olive oil or rapeseed oil are best with monosaturates that help reduce cholestrol and therefore put less pressure on the liver to process fats

keep up eating the high glycemic carbos (bitty grainy bread, wholewheat pasta, rice and sweet potatoes) to keep glucose level

I’ve taken the plunge today and asked GP for blood test for diabetes incase all this chemo has upset things and Metformin might be useful. He’s agreed - but clearly needs to go on the course we’ve been on as he just thinks the pancreas is involved and not the liver!

So food bill is going to come down - just limited good quality protein and not lots of stews with meat and veg protein in them together - but lots of veg instead! All seems very similar to many anti-cancer type diets but the quantities is the new dimension for me to be aware of.

Interested to read about tuna - message from diabetes course was that fresh has the important Omega 3 but tined is much much lower - anyone able to confirm this from their info as I do eat quite a lot of tinned tuna and thought it was good for Omega 3…
Hope this helps - is of interest
Fran

1045

Consultants who give dietary advice! I’ve had a PM from somebody who is happy for me to share her experience.

She went to see a consultant gynaecologist about ovary removal and he asked her if she’d made any dietary changes since her breast cancer diagnosis. He gave her a leaflet that his colleague (a Consultant too) had compiled to help prevent breast cancer and ovarian cancer which both referred to and recommended Jane Plant’s programme. Her Consultant discussed dietary changes and seemed impressed by the scientific approach taken by Jane Plant.

I know this is contentious so have to admit to some hesitation in posting but felt it was important for other women to know that there are clinicians who do think there is some validity to such ideas as no dairy.

I know we’re recently seen many fors and against on subject such as dairy recently. I hope this won’t spark another great fight about dairy. That isn’t my intention at all.
Elinda x

1046

Hi Elinda wow thats refreshing to hear of a consultant refering to changes in someones diet because they have or have had breast cancer … that gets a thumbs up by me although im not too happy in cutting out dairy completely I only have a little organic cheese twice a week if that & goats milk on my cereal in the morning oh abd tiny bit of organic unsalted butter on my toast my drinkls have no milk I dont believe in those low fat ‘dairy free porducts’ they seem to have too many preserves in them.

does anyone take B12 I started taking the drop form that you can take under the tongue I was starting to feel tired after 2 days of rads (long hour 15 min drive there & back to hospital) so I started taking that yesterday I dont know if its that or something else but ive felt really good today (4th rads) felt really bright relaxed when I got back cleaned my downstairs did my arm excercises & even felt like a little work out with my skippiing rope :slight_smile: Im usually quite tired & feel very flat by this time of the day but I dont & I slept really well last night didn’t wake up until my alarm went off I usually wake with every night sweat … not last night

Mekala X

1047

Elinda, this is good news indeed!

Are we able to obtain copies of these leaflets so that they can be passed onto our own Onc teams? I think some peer pressure might help the less enlightened health care professionals give more thought to diet and how it can help us fight this dreadful disease.

Please pass on my thanks to the person who PMd you and also thank YOU for having the courage to post it!

DaisyGirl xx

1048

Elinda thats interesting about the darker skins tending to be more V-D defficant that brought to mind the study I read when 1st diagnosed about Vit D & the link with BC & that TN seemed to have the lowest levels … also that TN seems to be more common in African, mediteranaen, Hispanic women … this being the case that seems to make sense

1049

Thanks Elinda - good to hear some consultants are more switched on.

1050

Elinda, I can see why you were reticent but think it’s great to know that some clinicians are looking into diet. One of the issues I believe is that medicine is so incredibly complex and new developments come thick and fast. It’s all too easy to prescribe medication rather than looking at things holistically. As we’re all aware dietary research is in a similar league. Maybe we should suggest specialist bc dieticians? I can think of a few to nominate for the role immediately! That’s not meant to be inflammatory either by the way.

Fran, thanks too for the info. I’m particularly fascinated by metabolic disorders and their links to poor health and disease generally, and am planning to look into it more once I’ve got some free time. Good luck with your new diet :slight_smile:

1051

I don’t think I can ask for a copy of the leaflet but I will PM the person to thank them and also ask if there was any other specific advice in the leaflet.

Mekalar - sorry what do the abbreviations TN stand for? Elinda x

1052

Hi it’s triple negative another type of cancer

1053

Thanks Laura - I didn’t think of it in that context. Doh!

1054

Fran - interesting about the small amounts of protein, and a surprise for me that they limit veg protein as much as animal protein. I can imagine limiting protein isn’t going to be too popular with your husband - it certainly wouldn’t with mine, although I am trying. We actually need surprising little protein to be healthy - most westerners eat many times the necessary amount. This article on the Daily Mail (!) website is about a trial for type 2 diabetics - a very low calorie diet (only 600 cals a day!) reversing type 2 diabetes in two months:

dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2007527/Diabetes-patients-didnt-need-tablets-2-month-low-calorie-diet.html

I’ve read other reports of similar findings - particularly people who have had bariatric surgery. What struck me is that it doesn’t seem to be just the weight loss that causes their insulin response to start working again, but rather resting their metabolic system from the bombardment of carbs. Reading through the comments it seems quite a few have managed to deal with the condition through diet. It’s just amazing to me that the damage can be undone so quickly. I’m more convinced than ever that cancer and metabolic issues are related, and we’re on the right track with our diets.

finty x

1055

I too not sure what to think of the ‘limiting’ of proteins one thing I do know if your excersising too or just generally very active this can be dangerous to your metabolism so if your keeping fit cutting down to a limited amount of proteins this too can have an adverse affect on the internal organs … OK im not joining the olympics but I intend to keep fit when energy allows & for those of us who when through the worse want to do alot of walking Yoga or whatever you are meant to have a certain amount of protein & the level is alot more than stated here in that report. I can understand this for the diabetics … but following this if your not diabetic to me is a bit worrying ?
I read an article somewhere about 2 years ago about the vegan diets even though they get their proteins from mainly pulses there were 75% in a group study that were lacking alot of essensial vitamins & had various health issues.

Maybe its just me & Ive only personally known 5 vegans all that to me look very gaunt & washed out I cant say ive seen one that looks healthy ?

Mekala

1056

I can’t find the post someone mentioned a book by a woman auther re diet ?

1057

Mekelar you are quite right - active people and those with a lot of muscle need more protein than others. I don’t think there is anything like universal agreement on this, but for what it’s worth the US guidelines are 0.8g per kg of body weight for sedentary adults, rising to 1.8g/kg for active people - up to a recommended maximum of 2.5g or 25% of calories.

For a rather hunky vegan see here!

dietsinreview.com/diet_column/11/trainer-bob-harper-discusses-thanksgiving-and-biggest-losers-vicky/

(Biggest Loser USA is one of my growing list of guilty pleasures)

I’m not a vegan - but I do eat what I call a near vegan diet - with just small amounts of egg, fish and occasional chicken. You do need to be very aware of getting the right nutrients - but it wouldn’t surprise me to find there are more people on normal diets that are deficient (especially in essential minerals)than vegans, who I believe tend to be better informed about diet. But that’s just an opinion, not based on anything in particular.

finty x

1058

I’m similarly surprised by the small amount of vegetable protein. I was deluding myself then that eating large portions of lentils was okay then!

I think I’ve come to the conclusion that I just eat way to much. I have a friend who is ultra slim, she eats everything but small portions.

I’ve always had a big appetite since I was a child and was extremely slim then and through a large part of adulthood. Now it’s a different story but so hard to retrain ourselves. Any tips of motivation (apart from the obvious health reasons)? Elinda x

1059

OOOOOOOOOH LOVELY that is a rather Hunky vegan I must say he sure look DAM Healthy to me ;)) oh ive come over all hot & funny lol thanks Finty … I think I probably have too much protein I have organic chicken breast maybe twice a week I usually eat white fish (haddock or cod) other days & about two days I have no meats but I eat lots of nuts (brazils walnuts almonds cashews & others) each day … I usually have organic red beef mince but just tiny bit when I do spag bowl for the family once week & I now eat loads of pumkin sunflower seeds as well as the flax each day

I do eat lots of fruit too as well as veg I love fruit but dont have many bananas mainly berries,(blueberry everyday all stoned fruits I usually cut up a variety & have fruit salad after my evening meal I probably have about 3/4- 5 portions a day but im a great believer in keeping the Vit C as high as possible as this helps oxygenate the blood Im mad on fresh pineapple at the moment & adding this & papaya to savory food & oranges cut up in salads love that … I dont feel I get a sugar high like I used to when I ate chocolate, biscuits & crisps. I never eat fruit on empty tummy now where I used to before always have it after savory & I think that makes a big difference & its very important to keep the bowels in check I notice the difference if I dont eat as much fruit on one day, so many things start off in the bowel & Im not one that ever wants to have C/ irrigation. If you go twice a day you know your body is detoxifying properly, my son found a very interesting study about this a few months ago to do with links to cancer when searching about bowel disorders for a college project.

mekala xxx

1060

Hi all, just got this research today, and I wasn’t sure whether the vit D discussion covered this at all so thought I’d post it anyway. It’s particularly interesting in view of the metformin trials and the discussion re the role of hyperinsulinaemia and high blood glucose in bc.

medscape.com/viewarticle/745335

June 25, 2011 (San Diego, California) — Higher levels of vitamin D in the blood appear to be associated with a reduced risk for incident diabetes among people at high risk for the disease, according to a new report.

Anastassios G. Pittas, MD, from the division of endocrinology, diabetes, and metabolism at the Tufts New England Medical Center in Boston, Massachusetts, and colleagues presented the findings here at the American Diabetes Association 71st Scientific Sessions.

According to Dr. Pittas, vitamin D might play a role in diabetes by improving insulin secretion and insulin sensitivity. “Most of the evidence focuses on a favorable effect in pancreatic beta cells,” he told Medscape Medical News.

To determine the relation between vitamin D status and risk for incident diabetes, the researchers analyzed data from the Diabetes Prevention Program (DPP), a 3-group trial comparing intensive lifestyle modification or metformin with placebo for the prevention of diabetes in patients with prediabetes.

The mean follow-up of the 2039-person cohort was 3.2 years. Plasma vitamin D levels were measured at yearly intervals, and subjects were assessed for incident diabetes. For this analysis, only participants in the intensive lifestyle and placebo groups of the DPP were considered.

Participants with vitamin D levels in the highest tertile (median concentration, 30.1 ng/mL) had a hazard ratio of 0.74 (95% confidence interval [CI], 0.59 to 0.93) for developing diabetes, compared with those with vitamin D levels in the lowest tertile (median concentration, 12.8 ng/mL).

The findings also suggest a dose-dependent effect for vitamin D levels; the hazard ratio for incident diabetes was lowest (0.46; 95% CI, 0.23 to 0.90) in the people with the highest vitamin D levels (50 ng/mL or higher), compared with those with the lowest levels (below 12 ng/mL).

In a subgroup analysis by tertiles of vitamin D, the association was similar in the placebo group (0.72; 95% CI, 0.53 to 0.96) and the lifestyle group (0.80; 95% CI, 0.54 to 1.14).

According to Dr. Pittas, “this study offers several methodological advantages over previous studies.” Vitamin D status was assessed multiple times during follow-up, not just once at baseline, which might not reflect long-term vitamin D status.

“Our study also includes a large clinically relevant population at high risk for diabetes, with a substantial proportion of nonwhite participants, which improves the external validity of the results,” he said. However, he added, “this is an observational study and therefore confounding cannot be excluded. It would be premature to recommend vitamin D specifically for prevention of diabetes.”

“This prospective study confirms that there is an association between levels of vitamin D and risk of diabetes, even when correcting for body weight, with no absolute threshold of serum 25-hydroxy vitamin D,” said independent commentator Clifford Rosen, MD, from the Jackson Laboratory in Bar Harbor, Maine. Dr. Rosen is a vitamin D researcher and member of the Institute of Medicine Committee that reviewed the evidence on calcium and vitamin D.

“The implications of this study relate to the importance of performing a randomized placebo-controlled trial of vitamin D for the prevention of type 2 diabetes in those at high risk,” he told Medscape Medical News. “In the interim, clinicians should at least focus on maintaining vitamin D levels in high-risk individuals at or around 20 ng/mL,” he added.

The study was not commercially funded. Dr. Pittas and Dr. Rosen have disclosed no relevant financial relationships.

American Diabetes Association (ADA) 71st Scientific Sessions: Abstract 0117-OR. Presented June 25, 2011.