For those interested in research on diet and cancer

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1021

The point of the research I keep referring to is that there aren’t any risks to supplementing at the advised levels for reducing cancer risk - so there is no benefit/risk calculation to be made - it’s just potential benefit without risk. There is plenty of evidence to suggest (please note I did not say conclude, just suggest) that high levels of Vit D are required to reduce bc risk, and it has been proven that if you follow RDA levels of supplementation these will be insufficient to achieve the required levels.

And could I please, very politely, ask you to consider stopping advising us to wait for new definitive research/guidelines to come to light on everything we discuss here - we’ve said over and over again we don’t have time for that and it likely isn’t coming anyway - and to be honest it completely misses the point of this thread. If it was as simple as following CRUK guidelines this thread would be 2 pages long and there would be nothing to discuss. It’s nearly 100 pages long because CRUK guidelines change at glacial speed, and we are looking at newer or more obscure research which often is not definitive, is not featured in any guidelines, but we take an educated judgement on it - which we are all capable of doing without CRUK input. Thank you.

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The thing I find extraordinary is that Vit D level blood tests are not available on the NHS or even recommended. Given that we live in the northern hemisphere, it is certainly not unreasonable to think that there may be deficiencies.
It isn’t only breast cancer. Low serum levels of vitamin D are now believed to be linked to multiple sclerosis which is far more common in northern hemispheres.

I accept the position paper of CRUK and others but am appalled that does not include a strong and urgent push for this further research. It’s the least you’d expect from such organisations. In fact it ends with some further research questions only - I find that shocking. Secondly I’d like to see the push for the testing of Vit D levels on women with breast cancer, those with MS etc.

The position paper says not enough is known about the ‘possible risks of raised Vitamin D levels in the general population over a long period of time’.
Fair enough, but what about the risks for those already diagnosed (as opposed to the general population)? Secondly, they talk about raised levels but some of us might be have very low levels of Vit D? elinda x

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Hi Mel - good news that your arm has gone down and well done on the weight loss!

Someone has asked their GP and they’ve had to pay for the Vit D test to be done privately at a cost of £150. To be really effective you’d want a before supplementing and post supplementing test during the winter and possibly again in the summer - but that would be so pricey and out of the reach of many of us. Elinda x

1025

Thanks Flinty for reclarifying the complexity of this thread and all info on diet and cancer that is always emerging. I really appreciate the sharing of research evidence and unravelling that others have helped me with so I don’t go off on a manic type approach. It’s good to know, SM, that are research is also helping our OHs but my OH is finding it hard giving up too much icecream with his fruit! At tonight’s diabetes session I’m hoping to get to talk to the dietician quietly as she works at the hospital where I’m treated and I’d like to know if cancer/diet are on their radar at all.
Just wondering if anyone has ever had a mercury test or knows where to get one - it relates to my research on this as toxic from the many, many cavities in my mouth as well as the evidence of levels in seafish.
Thanks again
Fran x

1026

dear francesw,
My daughter went to a naturopathic physician in sussex and had some of her hair sent off for sampling of toxic metals in the body.
Can’t remember how much it was but I think about £45 and this was 4 years ago.
You can find a register of naturopaths on line, hope this is of help
Best wishes

1027

Hi Frances

I’ve thought about that too. I’ve just had yet another root filling done and I’ve a mouth full of mercury. My dentist says I look after my teeth really well, he never has to clean them and he says its probably genetics. I also think a lot of it was down to poor dentistry in childhood when dentists were paid per filling!

The problem is what to do. Removing mercury fillings releases mercury and I feel you could end up with more inside you rather than less. There’s an awful lot on the internet some of it a bit cranky but at the same time I have research showing that people with a high number of fillings often have higher mercury levels. Whether or not that is a problem I’m not sure.

It’s just one more thing to worry about! So I’ve decided not to. Elinda x

1028

Hi Frances
There’s also a mercury urine test, see
novadetox.co.uk/acatalog/mercury-poisoning-test.html
I can’t find anything re the accuracy of these tests, still looking.

Re mercury in fish, this article is interesting and states that tinned tuna tends to have lower mercury levels than fresh. The second article includes full copies of the research. Oh, and lay off the shark! Both refer to imported fish, and uk farmed fish.

informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a713811311
food.gov.uk/science/surveillance/fsis2003/fsis402003

This link gives a chart of mercury levels in different types of fish.
mnn.com/earth-matters/translating-uncle-sam/stories/how-much-mercury-is-in-the-fish-we-eat

1029

Wow - such wonderfully helpful responses about mercury for me to follow up on. Yep Elinda it’s a tricky issue since mercury filling removal needs to be done so carefully by a holistic dentist (I have tracked one down near to me) but with low immunity as on Capecitabine not sure whether it’s a good idea - my Onc is even worried about having a root canal that’s a problem removed and I’ve got to have that done in hospital with antibiotics etc. Think I’ll follow up on the testing since at least let me know if I need to be worried instead of assuming that I do - would love to not worry!

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An academic piece on dental amalgam which is very worrying:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21232090

I’d balance that with the other paper they refer to:

ec.europa.eu/health/ph_risk/committees/04_scenihr/docs/scenihr_o_016.pdf

Dentists in fact are more exposed as I understand it than even those having the fillings due to the mercury vapour.

Frances - if I were to go ahead with the holistic dentist I’d want to know an awful lot about their practice and how they would proceed etc. I would want to know categorically that it won’t in fact risk greater exposure to mercury. It’s also a huge thing to go through without any certainty of whether it will have much impact.
I do really understand your worries though. In an ideal world I’d love not to have any mercury fillings and I’m sure there won’t be in the future. I hate the fact I have that in my mouth and even in my gums in a couple of places. I’m not sure there’s a simple solution though for those of us that have them now. Elinda x

1032

mel - if you do ask about the Vit D test would you let us know what they say please? I do think though that if I were going to have it done once, I’d have it done in the winter not the summer. Elinda x

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Hi Frances and Elinda,
I’ve got mercury fillings still, like you all from childhood. They’ve been cracking and falling out over the past 18 months and I’ve had 4 replaced with plastic ones by necessity. It’s a worry, but I felt that short of having my teeth pulled I couldn’t do anything else about it really. I didn’t know holistic dentists existed! I did look into the plastic fillings, and they too are not unproblematic. I’ve lost the ref but as I remember it the plastic softeners increase your risk of CVE and MI for approx 48 hours(?), but once the filling has set it’s much safer than mercury. Hmmm. I think I’m with you on refusing to worry Elinda.

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Hi Bubbletrouble, I’ve had quite a lot of problems post chemo with my teeth although it could be a coincidence. I just have whatever treatment is needed and try to put it out of my mind.

Very interesting to see the mercury levels in fish and that is something we can easily influence. Luckily some of the highest levels are in the most expensive things like swordfish which I never have! Glad about the tinned tuna as I do have that but will avoid the albacore variety.

Frances - how long will you have to wait to have a root filling done in hospital? Are you in pain?

Elinda x

1035

Wow. A lot of activity over the past day - great!

Glad the subject of Vit D has come up again, I’ve just been taking a Vit D3 supplement of 800iu for bone health - presuming that combined with a bit of sunshine it will give me a normal level. Sorry to say that I’m not amazed that we can’t get a Vit D test on the NHS - I believe there’s a test to see if tamoxifen is likely to work in an individual, but that’s not available - instead you have to take pot luck and all the side effects that come with it. Anyway, I’m getting off topic… When I have time I’m going to read through the links on Vit D with a view to considering supplementing at a higher dose.

I found Linda’s ‘Consensus Vitamin D’ link interesting - I’ve not seen it before. Good general background reading. It’s worth remembering that in science nothing is ever set in stone, and something is only accepted as proven - or a recommended guideline - until evidence comes along to the contrary. Similarly, just because research is deemed inconclusive at the present time, doesn’t mean that evidence or research can’t suddenly emerge to challenge that view. Science is a very fluid environment and a good scientist should always keep an open mind. I wonder how often the Consensus report is updated - once a year? It probably took several months to write. This isn’t aimed at you Linda, or anyone in particular, just a general comment.

Fran - the bicarb research paper you found looks interesting, but I think I’d like to see more evidence - and a less invasive potential treatment. Had quite enough of needles! Btw, I use bicarb of soda as a mouthwash/gargle (1tsp in a glass of warm water) - helps with mouth ulcers (got that tip from the MD Anderson website - chemo nurses just recommended corsodyl, which was far too abrasive for me). Hope the Cape keeps you stable too for a long, long time to come.

Finty - thanks for the research link on carbs and protein. Good to see we seem to be on the right track with low GI carbs… I might need to revise my portions - up the protein a bit (more beans…I’ll be jet-propelled at this rate). I took a look at the abstract and it specifically mentions ‘amylose’ carbs, and googling it seems that the higher the amylose content in a food, the lower it’s Glycemic Index. So that’s cool.

This is a useful link to the Harvard School of Public Health’s guide to good carbs (and nutrition in general). It explains really clearly how carbs affect the body, the best carbs to eat etc… I know a lot of us posting on this site are very clued up on nutrition, but I find it’s good to re-read the basics sometimes to remind me. Thought it might be also be useful for anyone reading this thread who wants to have a healthier diet, but is not quite sure where to start or exactly why it’s so important.

hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/carbohydrates-full-story/index.html

Hope everyone is doing okay, and that food is helping.

Uh-oh… another “essay”. Must try harder.

KL

1036

Bubble - thanks very much for the mercury levels chart. Very reassuring as I’m not a shark-snaffler, but no mention of the humble sardine. I guess it would have very low levels, being a small fish.

There’s a lot to think about (and potentially worry about), isn’t there. Sometimes it can be hard to keep things in proportion, but not much choice unless we decide to live in a bubble (have you got room for us all, Bubble?!).

KL

1037

Hi Mel I asked both my onc & GP for vit D test both said no can do NHS WONT do them now, but I would encourage all to ask theirs own Onc & GP … you never know if we all pester them about it ? my GP asked me to please stop taking the Vit D until I had a test … I didn’t stop & glad I didn’t I paid private to have it done £150 but worth it as far as I was concerned I was still classed as deficiant & was advised on what dose to take to get my levels up to normal

Mekala x

1038

As I understand it, (sorry, can’t remember where I read this), RDAs for various vitamins and minerals are the recommended daily amounts required to avoid getting the various deficiency diseases such as rickets. This is NOT the same as being the optimum amount for good health, or even the optimum amount to help treat disorders. A tricky topic indeed.

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Choccie, that’s what I understand too. Standard RDAs are aimed at people already in good health.

1040

Yes, KL, that too. So RDA might not have a lot of relevance for BC people and it looks like the research hasn’t been done that might give the answer. That said, I don’t go in for mega-high SPF so you end the summer just as pasty as you start it, in order to let my body make its Vit D. Doesn’t help over winter though… What FOODS are rich in Vit D naturally? I just feel that getting vits the way nature intended rather than via supplements is a bit less intrusive. An ongoing subject for discussion, I suspect.