health authorities - non urgent referrals - is there a time scale

I wonder if anyone can answer my question. A male friend of mine was dx with cancer yesterday. He went to his GP and got put on a waiting list of ten months to see a consultant as a non urgent referral. She obviously didnt think he had cancer or needed an urgent referral which is fine. But ten months does seem a terribly long time to be seen even for minor things. He lives in Brighton.

When I queried the wait he said Brighton is the pits for healthcare and waiting. I know Paula has had a bad experience with that health authority too. My local hospital is the PRUH in Bromley and even for non urgent things, you never wait more than a couple of months. He has ended up paying for tests but then will go back to the NHS. Is this normal? Does seem a bit strange to me, but didn’t want to say much to him about it for obvious reasons.

Not sure if that was clear, but he went private and that was when he was dx, and is now boing back on the NHS.

Hi Jules

I think there are bits of the story missing - surely if he was diagnosed with cancer he would have seen a consultant already ?
cathy

I didn’t want to pry, but thought he was exagerating to be honest!! Hence I am asking this question, as I am sure now a days there are charters stating how long you would wait to be seen for everything (obviously cancer is two weeks by the NICE guidelines. But what about non urgent things.

He WASN’T dx at that stage, but being sent as a NON urgent referral, he has been since he went private and is now on the NHS and be treated now.

My question is, for non urgent referrals is it really that long to wait in his area, it certainly is not in mine.

Hi Jules,
I think that government targets for non urgent referrals is 18 weeks, obviously this is the guideline but waiting times will vary depending on the demand for the particular speciality. Ten months is totally unacceptable!
Claire

I thought that too Claire, hence I came on here to ask. I wonder if he is being economical with the truth. If thats the case I wonder why.

It is 18 weeks. That’s not just 18 weeks before you are seen. That is your appointment, decision on treatment of any kind, the treatment itself or referral on to wherever. There are strict time limits to all of it now. The old days of patients waiting for months before they are seen are long gone. NHS Trusts work under very strict guidelines now regarding time limits etc.

Thanks Julie, me thinks hes is being a bit economical with the truth, but not sure why he would fib about that, but I thought he was wrong hence asking. I know they have to go by the patients charter, but wasnt sure exactly whats in that.

Thanks.

We who work for the NHS are haunted by the 18 week targets and outcomes and as Julie said that is for referral, appointment and treatment so maybe you could enquire again Jules ?

Liz x

I must admit Liz, I am at a loss why he has lied about this. He also has told me he has had to pay £250 for a consultation in the first place. I saw a consultant once privately and it was £100. I know he is ill because a few of my friends know him and a couple have spoken to his partner, but why say what he has. I am in a NICE way going to mention the 18 week target and see what he says. I will report back his answer.

Jules xxx

Consultants private fees are about £250 these days. I would mention to him that you confidentially spoke to somebody regarding his wait and we were surprised. Usually if he went privately and then back to the NHS he has jumped the first queue. But I cannot see any health authority delaying anything concerned with cancer - well not at first anyway. Getting the drugs later is a worry in some cases

Liz x

Yes I am going to Lizzie. I guess the reason I queried this was because he lives in Brighton and have heard a few not good things about healthcare in that part of the world. Because if what he is saying is true, he might be able to get compensation from the NHS, to pay the costs that he has had to pay out.

Thanks

Jules xx

Yes I have read about the Brighton so it could be feasible. Think you need to have a chat with him to make sure he is doing everything he can to be seen and perhaps tell him what you know about Brighton

Liz x

Yes Lizzie, we know all about 18 week waits don’t we, I’m turning white overnight with all the extra paper work etc. I’ve been stressed to the limit today at work, came home really frazzled, and half of it is just trying to stay within time limits. If your Consultant is not turning the referral letters around within a 24 - 48 hours or more, they’re on your back. It’s brilliant from the patient’s point of view, much better for them obviously, but all adds to the workload.

I don’t think even in postcode lottery world a referral time of 10 months between cancer diagnosis and consultant appoinmtnet is feasible or believable. Porkies abound here. There are sadly quite a lot of pranksters around when it comes to making up cancer stories which might appeal to the lurid end of the press.

GPs don’t in any case diagnose cancer…its the consultants or other hospital doctors who do that.

Jane

I have worked in both a GP practice for 10 years and as consultant secretary for 8 years. If ever there was the slightest inkling anything could be cancer a telephone call was made an the patient would be seen within a matter of days. And as you say Jane the GP does not diagnose the cancer.

Julie - wish my consultant would take notice of the time scale for turning letters around - he can take days sometimes

Liz x

His GP did NOT think he had cancer, and as my post says NON URGENT REFERRAL as in ROUTINE!! I did not once say that cancer was suspected and he would have to wait ten months.

I agree that even for a non urgent thing it seems a bit of a long wait HENCE MY QUESTION, and have told him that, his words were Brighton is terrible as its a small hospital and has to see alot of people. I repeat his GP referred him as NON URGENT. I am not going to call him a liar, I just wanted to ask others, as I don’t know much about NHS waiting lists if this seemed normal. Maybe he is being a bit evasive with the truth, but he has cancer and its not my place to interrogate him.

I think everyone who uses this site either because they have breast cancer or has a loved one who has it knows about the NICE guidelines which states anyone with suspected cancer has to been seen within two weeks.

My GP did not think my lump was cancer and I was given an appointment four weeks after referral. The consultant after various tests were unsure whether my lump was malignant and I had a lumpectomy. Luckily it was benign. I have known people to have been referred within two weeks for suspected cancer, and ended up being ok. GP’s only make judgments, sometimes right and sometimes wrong.

Hi Lizzie

Yes, my consultant is brilliant. I work for a Cardiologist. She’s fab. Great fun and literally like a whirling durbish, never stops. She doesn’t stop for 2 minutes and turns everything round very quickly, so nothing sits without her attention for long. 27 years in the health service and she’s the best one I’ve worked for. Love my job. On the whole 18 week pathway it can be irritating at times because it’s made so much more work, you are constantly having to “stop the clock” as they call it, and the extra paperwork involved, but I think it’s fabulous for patients. The old days where patients waited for over a year for hip replacements etc was just ludicrous.

Jules, Hopefully your friend will get the treatment he needs.

Julie, I brought up what you and Lizzie said about the 18 week turnaround and also the Patients Charter explaining that he could get the money back that he paid out for the private consulation as they have fallen below the guidelines, I got a sharp “there is more to worry about than getting my money back”.

I realised then that I should keep quiet, and didn’t want to risk upsetting him. I have also asked him to get a referral now hes been dx, to the Marsden as was very impressed with the treatment my mum received, and after hearing about Paula’s terrible treatment at Brighton, again he got quite upset so realised I should back off.

Hi Jules

I didn’t mention anything about getting any money back that he has already paid out. I have no knowledge whatsoever of the private sector. None of the consultants I’ve ever worked for have done private work anyway, so have never got involved.

What I mentioned was that he shouldn’t have had a wait like that in the first place due to the 18 week pathway. All NHS Trusts should be doing this as far as I am aware, and their first initial appointment shouldn’t really be anymore than about 6 weeks.

Julie

I know you didnt mention about getting money back, but after you said about the guidelines for an appointment I suggested he should try and get his money back. I was thinking if he has paid out unecessarily he could be entitled to compensation. It’s up to him though and not my business, I was just curious.

Alot of the consultants at my local hospital the PRUH work privately at Chelsfield Park, the Sloane and also at Guys.

Thanks for answering the question Julie, I was curious that what he saying was wrong. Either hes not being totally truthful or Brighton have failed him. My local hospital is fantastic and we seem to get all appointments well within the guidelines for even minor things.