Hi all
I use sylk as a lubricant and you can now get it on prescription, so it’s free if you’ve got an exemption cert (as a cancer patient you are entitled).
fantan xx
So all i need now is a man with dark glasses or even better a blind fold em that could be interesting!and my tube of lube lol
thanks for your reply’s ladies keep them coming.
Jane JAM and JERUSLALAM springs too mind oh gosh i hope not dont think i can get the hang of reprogramming myself to be a sex goddess though !
Lucyloo - failure is not an option! We have to find a way through this because otherwise it was all for nothing and I honestly do not know if i can live with it all having been for nothing. If treatment for bc robs us of quality of life then it is not worth having and we may as well just die of it.So, we have been through all this S*** and it is not going to be a quick fix to get back to sex goddess, do not know tyhat I can really believe I will get there either but we can not stay where we are because that is just too sad.
And I know what you mean about the dark glasses but that is not what we are aiming for - we are aiming for pride and self respect and respect from others.
Keep on with the not saying negative things.
Love Jane x
Thanks Ladies for all the advice,I’ll need another sickness certif at end of month (starting rads on Thurs) so I’ll make an appointment with my doctor then. Mind you,don’t know if I’ll want my OH near me with a sunburnt boob!
Off to pratise my positive mantra…I am a sex goddness…I am a sex goddess…I am…hungry…oops! where did that spring from…
Little H xx
Hi. This is such a positive thread. There is a theme running through it that I have to agree with. OK, I can’t deny we men do like tits and bums, but when it comes down to it there is absolutely nothing more attractive or more sexy in a woman than confidence, joie-de-vivre, and the love of just being a woman. I think if you work on that, you can’t fail!
Well all - I feel like Don Quoxite this evening after a whole day of trying not to see or say anything negative in or about my body. Have had to add humour (now imagine myself as DQ - not much of an improvement) with Fantans mantra - in truth I have laughed at the thought of it and actually cried saying it. Maybe that is good? It is much harder not to think negative thoughts than you would think.
JM - thanks for that. Confidence is part of it but the disfigurement can be a real turn off for some guys, it’s hard to experience “the look” more than once or twice and stay in the game. Any tips for preparing the man to view ?
Keep it coming folks!
Love
Jane x
Hi everyone
Jane, you’ve hit the nail right on the head (in my case anyway) with the question re a new partner being ‘prepared to look’. It’s one thing to have confidence and learn to love ourselves etc but, and it’s a big but, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN HE SEES IT? He could be a lovely man and we’re often told, ‘if he’s decent, he’ll be OK with it, etc etc’ but what if he genuinely can’t cope with it, let’s face it, we all have things that ‘turn us off’ which wouldn’t affect someone else the same way and that’s not necessarily being shallow, (and I’m not only talking about the reconstructed breast - it could also be his fear around everything concerning BC, ie, ‘how’s she going to cope?’, ‘will she be seriously emotionally scarred’, ‘how will it affect starting a relationship’ etc etc.
How does a new partner in your life know how to ‘be’ around someone who’s been through BC/reconstruction etc? - No-one’s ever taught them how and yet they are supposed to just ‘deal with it’.
Any men out there with any thoughts on this one or are there any ladies who have met new partners and successfuly developed a physical relationship?
Lots of love to everyone. Cathy xx
i had a WLE with revision and rads 3 years ago and had 1 small mis-shapen boob and was a single girl and worried about what would happen if i got intimate with somebody and what they would think.
however most people you are likely to get intimate with will know your history and know you as a person before you get to the having no clothes on bit…
i was always upfront with any potential partner and if they didnt wanna know then cheerio.
i had 2 serious boyfriends but they werent right for me but im now engaged to my partner who is lovely and so supportive especially since iv been diagnosed a second time.
just wanted to let you know there is life after breasts :o)
Lulu x
It’s a bit hard for me to respond on how to prepare him as we are in a (very) long term relationship, but I think Lulu has hit it there.
I think it is important to be completely open and that he knows about it as early as possible. Apart from the practical issue of not wasting investment on someone who isn’t worth it, I think the honesty and openness itself makes you more attractive. I suppose it comes back to the confidence thing. Above all, I think you have to avoid getting into the situation where he might feel you have trapped him into something.
In my case I found the reality of Janet’s scar is not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be. The other thing I would say is that if you make a big deal of it, then he is probably more likely to. If you or he is worried about how he might react to the real sight, what about showing him the famous painting by Heath Rosselli first (facebook.com/pages/Heath-Rosselli/52886848106#/photo.php?pid=1615378&id=52886848106&ref=mf)? I think that image is really beautiful.
Just some thoughts from a pure amateur.
Now you see I do not like that picture at all - it provokes a powerful emotion in me but it is one of pain. I think she looks strained and as if she is trying to put on a brave face. I can see only pain and no beauty in it. I like to imagine her wrapped in a comforting shawl afterwards, to me it looks like she has the same face I wear when subjected to physical exam of the offending recon, the “I’m ok, really” resigned face. I imagine she is repeating her goddess mantra.
Truth is, there are little give aways about how one really feels even in the supportive male. JM - you say “not nearly as bad” so it’s probably fair to say you did have doubts about how you would react to it. What if it had been as bad as you thought it might be? Some of us with deformed reconstructions are probably a more disturbing sight than a neat scar - trust me, you don’t notice the shapely legs or other bits when “it” is just there and odd shaped and in my case horribly hard to the touch, or causes pain when touched. Reckon that could be quite damaging to the male ego if his “moves” were experienced as pain.
Still doing my not thinking negative thoughts thing but would love to explore the “how do you prepare a partner and how do you cope after rejection” angles in this. I can find no sensible advice anywhere on the net - it seems to be a completely unaddressed, yet i imagine fairly common, issue. I suspect at the heart is a scary thought; if men are allowed to be honest about how they feel about the woman post surgery it may upset a lot of people so loving men stay quiet and the rest are labelled not decent men. Am i wrong?
Love to all
Jane x
Hi everyone
Jane - definately agree with you on men being labelled as ‘wrong uns’ if they react negatively to mast/recon (unless of course they really are bad people!) and I wonder too how many partners ‘suffer in silence’ or ‘put up with’ in order to support the partner and are too scared/uneasy to tell them how they really feel for fear of upseting the apple cart or distressing their partner. It is a huge ‘ask’ to expect a partner/new partner to react positively as if ‘nothing has happened’ when you reveal effects of surgery to them.
Jansman - Just out of interest and it would give me good insight to know from a male point of view, what is it about the picture that you find beautiful?
Lots of love to everyone. Cathy x
I agree it’s not “only a brest” I think our new self image is about pictures of perfect women in magazines etc and anything to do with masectomies being “secret” despite the number of women in every town who will have had surgery. What helped me was going to a clay workshop and making a (amateurish)sculpture of a 1 breasted woman. I also do visual journalling at an art class and painted (again amateurishly) lots of pictures about how I looked and felt after surgery. I didn’t have to talk about the images it was a way of saying to myself/others this is me. I can’t say I feel particularly sexy at the moment but I think this is due to a lot of other stresses in my life. I’m nearly a year post treatment and knew that I’d come to terms with my changed body when I realised I was walking around the house naked as I used to do. I HATE wearing a prothesis as it seems like a symbol of wanting to look like the norm rather than ME. I don’t wear it at home, just a sports bra but do for work etc. When I was first diagnosed I read “Put on your party dress”, can’t remember author, she didn’t wear bra or prothesis as she disliked fakeness (sp?). My sis-in-law is a very large lady who could hide behind tent clothes, she wears what ever she wants and has the attitiude that if they (men) don’t like how she is, well, *** (fill in own word!) them. I know size is not the same as a masectomy but I wonder if it is her attitude of self confidence that helps her to behave as she does.
In the most recent Amoena magazine letter writers were discussing going topless on the beach post masectomy. Interesting.
Take care. x
Hi all
Been reading this thread…I think littlemrs has a good point. A robust 's*d ‘em’ attitude might be a big help.
This is just a collection of stray points that have occurred to me…
1 It hasn’t happened to me, but I get the feeling that a lot of women are being left with what they, with a great deal of justification, must see as ruined bodies as a result of inappropriately timed quick recons (for cost reasons) performed by surgeons who aren’t perhaps as skilled as they might be. If this is indeed so, it’s scandalous and ought to stop.
2 I never had a perfect bod beforehand - very few of us have. I think we are always more critical of our physical appearance than others ever will be.
3 If anyone gets from cradle to grave without s**t happening to them, they’re lucky. Many other people also have body issues, either those that they were born with, or those inflicted by treatment for various conditions or from accidents. I’ve been told that the internal radiotherapy for cervical cancer can do the most horrendous damage. The potential partners we meet won’t be perfect, either. They’ll be bald, wear dentures having lost all their front teeth playing rugby, sterile from childhood mumps. Most people have baggage.
I think my gut feeling is that if someone really, really likes you, it’s for many reasons. Physical attraction is essential, but there are so many other factors, too. (As my OH is wont to say…'It might take face powder to catch 'em [men, that is], but it takes baking powder to keep ‘em’).
Sorry this is a bit of a jumble - hope I haven’t strayed too far off topic.
X to all
S
Ooooh, it’s a bit quiet here, time for a bump!
Hi all.
Just got back earlier from Janet’s first chemo (EC). A bit early to tell yet, so keeping fingers crossed.
So many important questions and points. We were together a lomg time before Dx, so a bit difficult, but will try to answer honestly from my point of view. (Only a sample of one I’m afraid.)
Hi Jane. When I say “not nearly so bad”, what I mean is that I expected the wound would be much more prominent than it was, particularly after only a week. I honestly was never in any doubt that I would find her just as attractive as I always did, however the scar looked, but I realise we have been together a long time and that makes a difference. I haven’t contemplated the reconstruction issue a lot, but to be honest I’d prefer Janet not to have that, though I would support her if she does want to. I do, though, understand the pain thing. Janet has suffered arthritis for many years, including constochindritis (sternum and ribs - very tender and painful), and we have to be pretty careful. The important thing there is communication and trust, on both sides.
Cathy. Really good question. I see a woman with a lovely smile, beautiful shoulders and arms, lovely curved hips and legs, a nice tummy - not too flat like those skinny models, framed by elegant forearms and hands modestly hiding the promise of her pubic area. I see a small but beautiful breast on the left side and a scar on the other side that is actually quite pretty in context. I also see a woman who is confident enough in herself to allow me the privilege of seeing her in all her womanly glory, and that makes her especially beautiful. I do see that she seems a little tense, but I interpret that as the nervousness felt by anyone who is not a professional model but is posing nude, and it adds a little reality and excitement to the image; she is prepared to overcome that nervousness in order to grant me (and others) this great privilege. That is my honest analysis of the image, but it is really the image as a whole that I find quite beautiful.
I still think that getting used to the idea first, through images like that one, should help - I was used to the idea before we actually looked at the wound and that meant there was no initial “shock” feeling. The main thing I was trying to say about the image is that looking at this picture, and maybe some others, might help him to prepare for seeing the real thing.
Littlemrs, you seem to have kind of healthy attitude that makes someone beautiful. I think many (most?) women feel badly about their body because the only ones we all tend to see nude are the so called “ideal” body shapes. In fact women are many different shapes and sizes and that doesn’t stop them being beautiful - they are just different, and for me that applies even after Mx. The walking around nude at home thing I imagine could help a lot, even if you are alone. I was quite taken by the words of the song last year “nothin’ on but the radio dancin’ around my room…” the attractivenes of the image that conjures up is about the attitude, not the physical appearance. Bahons, you are absolutely right in your points, though I really hope no.1 isn’t true!
I met a lovely lady at my BC support group who after chatting for a few minutes said “would you like to see my scar?” Well, as you can imagine I was a bit surprised but didn’t want to appear negative so said yes and waited for her to take her top off! Instead she pulled a photo from her bag that showed a very messy, baggy scar. I felt very angry for her as the surgeon had left her, what I can only say is, mutilated with what I think is referred to as a “dog ear”. We talked about how she felt about herself (obviously I tried to be sensitive and didn’t say it looked terrible) and maybe to seek advice from her BC nurse about plastic surgery. I wonder if it is because she was an older woman that the surgeon had thought it didn’t matter how she was sewn up? She said several times that it would be worse if she was younger but I feel that what ever age we are we deserve to be treated well.
An interesting point on this thread about looking at images as one of the things I asked my BC nurse about before surgery was photos of women with masectomies so I could prepare myself. She did offer a volunteer who will come to her office and undress for women but I didn’t feel I could cope with that then so just looked at the tiny photo the BC nurse found in a textbook. I wondered then if it was tiny so it wasn’t so shocking or if it wasn’t something they are usually asked to provide. That was a useful appointment as I took 1 of my daughters with me and we played around with the various prothesis and had a chat about how they felt etc. My other daughter who has left home found the changes more difficult to cope with as she didn’t see me until I had lost my hair and the idea of Mum bald built up in her mind to a worse picture than the reality.
I think Bahons2 is right that boy/girlfriends aren’t going to be perfect and almost certainly have their own hang ups. In a David Lodge book (“Thinks”?) there is a passage describing the main character in bed for the 1st time with an old school friend and her stopping him caressing and saying I don’t want you to be shocked by what you do/don’t feel and then showing him her scar. I read the book ages before I was DX but for some reason that passage stayed with me.
I hope Janet has coped OK with her 1st chemo.
Take care x
Little Mrs - don’t think its ageism, I have seen horrible mx scars on young women too - the worst I have seen was inflicted on a woman who was only 30 when she had mx and she looks awful, not different but ugly and mutilated. She had rads damage then secondaries within months so recon was never discussed. She is a quiet woman and did not make a fuss and has grieved ever since. Bahrons - you are right, it is scandalous.
The mx/recon images are an issue, i was shown pictures of ladies much older than me (all at least in thier 60’s) and I thought the pictures were horrible, upsetting and undignified. I felt sorry for them and said so, the BCN said all these ladies had “adjusted well”. i have since discovered this is at best a half truth for at east one of them. I was still shocked, atually horrified by the sight of my body post surgery. In fact I hate to look at myself and sleep in a bedroom with no mirrors to avoid the sight. I never used to hate my body, in fact I loved my figure, i considered myself very atractive. Now I dry myself without looking down and keep covered up all the time. I live alone and sleep in pjs. The idea of ever going topless on a beach again is interesting. I read a post here from someone who had used a communal shower in Iceland and been unsettled by the other womens reactions to her recon, know I would not set myself up for the shock and curiousity of others.
I was told by BCN that most women will not pose for those pictures and I have to be honest - I wouldn’t, though it’s true they did not ask. I have shown the recon to other women in the same boat. I would not show it to thier partners though.
I think at my age most prospective partners are still pretty physically good - nearly perfect! And my competition for those partners is certainly very physically attractive, well toned trim bodies - the standard is high, therefore I feel the loss of my breast and hair through chemo keenly. And I know I am just as nice a person as I was before (well, not quite as nice) but I am not looking for a brother or a friend. And it isn’t all about getting a partner, a lot of it is just being comfortable in my own skin and not feeling like a cancer patient.
JM - I think that it may be true (to an extent) but even long term relationships can change after dx, unsettling lives and sexual relationships. I have read a number of posts from and spoken with women who have drifted away from thier men due to the shame, illness or other effects post surgery. Maybe age has something to do with this for some people, if partners are older and have families, maybe even adult children, maybe the things they value most in a relationship are different. I don’t agree most women have issues with thier bodies when relatively young, most women I now are pretty confident as was I, now I fear a man I love and desire preferring the bodies of other, whole, women to me and that is new. I never used to be threatened by other women’s attractiveness - now I would be distraught if I had a partner who enjoyed images of other women. I looked at that picture again but can not see what you are seeing - I do not see confidence, i see uncomfortable.
Good luck to your wife with the chemo, hoping the SE’s are mild and that she copes well.
Love to all
Jane x
I totally agree Jane, there is nothing i find beautiful when looking at that photo i just feel sympathy actually, i also never look at myself cant bare it and after not having that much luck with men prior to bc i know its going to take some one very special to cope with me as i am now, having just got back from a holiday in tenerife not long ago i was so so envious and not i may say of the younger women but the mature ladies that could show off their not so perfect but normal healthy boobs beside the pool, instead of me swealtering in my chest covering tankini.
Hi Jane and everyone else…
It was me who used a communal shower in Iceland - no shower, no swim (it was the Blue Lagoon)! and it was the first - and only (the ‘opportunity’ has never presented itself since)occasion that I’ve done it. But I don’t remember it being off-putting, altho’ I was anxious before I did it. But those jolly Icelanders didn’t seem to notice. I could do it again, I reckon
I’ve got a b****y good recon; I know I have. My BS (who didn’t do it - a genuine BS carried it out three years after the mastectomy) was keen to seek out my permission to show it to medical students as an example of what they should aspire to. OH also told me on one occasion (when the novelty hadn’t worn off) that perhaps not everyone wanted to see it…
My recon was a TRAM flap. It’s a big (eight hours), and therefore expensive, op. No implants, no skin from back - everything taken from my (ample) tummy. The PS had a neat mastectomy scar to work with. The recon is a better match in terms of size than the breast it replaced. The nipples lined up (after a small reducing op on the other side). A TRAM flap neatens your waist and flattens your stomach. Breasts are higher than they have a right to be in a woman my age, too. It feels the same as the other side, too.
I think also, I’ve never thought of myself as attractive, so I wasn’t conscious of a great sense of loss (I wanted a recon to feel balanced, symmetrical and because the prosthesis was such a perishing nuisance) - I’ve certainly never looked much in mirrors; losing my hair from chemotherapy never disturbed me greatly, either - just plonked on a scarf/wig/hat and carry on regardless. I was a tomboy (I love my tankini! See? How sad is that? :-)) and I’m still very low maintenance…
But I know others on here felt very differently about their bodies beforehand and about what has been done to them subsequently. And when I read on here of the mess other ladies are in, I’m staggered, and so angry and sad on their behalf. How do these ‘healthcare professionals’ get away with it?
My own personal gripe about a sex life after, or indeed with, bc, is slightly different but related. Namely that, on top of the very real concerns about body image, are the lasting problems with libido, etc that are a result of the chemical and surgical ‘castration’ so many of us endure to improve our chances of survival. There’s not much help in that area, either.
Finally - and forgive me, as this might just be an ‘age’ thing on my part, but I would, I think, if I were single (I’m not) have to get to know someone very well indeed as a person before I got round to showing them ‘what lies beneath’ (even if I hadn’t had any surgery). And they would definitely have to have become a firm friend before the prospect of anything more intimate became a reality. My OH told me once that some of the reasons he likes me because I’ve had a good education (as did he), because my SOH is similar to his and I share many of his interests. Not caring how untidy he is may also come into it (lol). Physical attraction is important, but I don’t feel it’s the whole package, by any means.
Sorry if I’ve rambled on, gone off-topic, etc. More random thoughts, really.
X to you all
S