I have been dairy free since diagnosis of both primary and seconcary in March 2009. My husband read Jane Plant’s book first and then I read it. Our immediate reaction was to cut out the dairy which I did. I had six months of chemo and was on ongoing herceptin and all seemed to be going well. Was it cutting out the dairy or was it the drugs?
The herceptin had to be stopped this January as a CT scan as a preliminary to mastectomy and ANC revealed the cancer was on the move. I am now on chemo again and have already had one attempt at starting lapatinib. I had to give up first time round as I had a severe reaction, but have just restarted with a lower dosage and a side dish of antihistamines.
I still have soya products. So now I face myself with this question. Do I keep dairy free and give up soya as well OR do I say to heck with it all and just eat whatever. I also gave up red meat. In that camp I only really like lamb anyway.
So what do I do? Do I end up feeling guilty if I feel I have made the ‘wrong’ choice?
Snoogle - side dish of antihisamtines made me laugh - I had them with Taxotere. Say to hell with it and eat what you like. How will you ever know what is a right or wrong choice? Just enjoy your food and enjoy life without guilt and fear. Good luck with the lapatinib.
I know this thread is about dairy, but I see a lot of people mention avoiding soya too. At my last visit to the NHS London Homeopathic Hospital (their Complementary Cancer Care program) I asked for diet advice. The doctor was non-committal about dairy causing breast cancer, but happy for me to reduce/avoid it because of the high fat content. But she seemed very keen to tell me about the most recent research on soya according to Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Centre, who she considered the most reliable source of info out there. Here’s a link to their ‘soy’ page: mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69383.cfm
“However, recent data show soy consumption reduces mortality and recurrence in breast cancer patients, regardless of tamoxifen use”
This site is pretty good, lots of links to research on herbs, etc as well.
Ms Molly, I’m with you on this one. I read almost all the book and didn’t finish it because I wasn’t convinced (no need to repeat your argument) and felt harangued all the way through!
good food is a real pleasure - I’m in the very old fashioned ‘moderation in all things’ and ‘a little bit of what you fancy…’ camp and I think you can enjoy a healthy and varied diet. There just isn’t enough evidence to do otherwise
monica xx
The thing that gets me is that you can read pros and cons for absolutely everything, if you search hard enough! I recently read that a French study showed dairy was good for preventing bc. The whole diet/supplement thing is driving me nuts - all the contrary advice. It is the same with all research about food - one day it is good, the next, it’s out of fashion. As you say, maybe it is best just to have a little of everything and then you cover all bases.
Although I’m more convinced on not eating dairy than Msmolly I have to say that I’m totally with you on the sugar thing. That is the one thing that surprised me with the Plant programme that sugar isn’t even discussed. It does seem a bit of pick some things and not others. There is certainly no evidence that I’m aware of that sugar has any nutritional value. There is a school of thought that it compromises the immune system for several hours after consumption. I certainly eat less nutritious things if I have sugar as it makes me crave more sugar.
I too have concerns about the reliability of statistical data from countries like China and Thailand that have low rates of BC but it raises enough of an issue for me to cut out dairy.
I don’t think it is simply a case of breasts make milk therefore this is problem but more of a case of the hormones and growth factors that milk contains.
Let’s hope the EPIC study provides us with a bit more clarity so we don’t have to worry about making the wrong or right decisions. In the meantime this will undoubtedly come up as subject of debate again!
msmolly I think we are arguing past each other. My take of Plant’s book is that she is suggesting an hypothesis - she doesn’t claim proof, rather a fair amount of circumstantial evidence to support her hypothesis, and is frustrated at the lack of research. Her own personal story is compelling. She doesn’t claim to be a cancer specialist, far from it, but her scientific credentials are real and impressive. But we can all play duelling expertsand I am sure she has as many detractors as supporters, but the one thing that I have found for myself since dx is even the experts actually don’t know very much about bc. I am just surprised that you want to totally dismiss the possibility of a link with dairy products - I think I am more open-minded.
I wish there were some proof - but I am prepared to believe the possibility of eating a product for 50 years that is designed to promote fast growth in baby animals could, eventually, cause some cell damage in a species for which it was never intended. As the stakes are so high, absent any other probable cause, I will continue to avoid dairy products at all costs.
Dear All, Am interesting and emotive thread, we love them on here don’t we???
I am of the opinion, as some of you may well know now, that we all need to find our own path that we can sit comfortably with. There are no wrongs or rights. Cancer as we know is a multifactorial disease and we have to find our way through the minefield of so called facts, so called scientific evidence,quackery,and the other hundreds of ideas that our available.
I myself come from a holistic background so I sit very comfortably with holistic and alternative theories. Many on here are from the medical model of thinking and have firm opinions about drugs and their uses.
But at the end of the day, I don’t think there is the magic cure, because if there was, cancer would not exist. So we all have to find our own paths and hope that some of what we do helps, stops,delays, etc and prolong our lives, so we can be healthy and fit!!
I think the psychological aspect also comes into disease, which hasn’t been mentioned on this thread, I don’t think so anyway. There is some research on psychoneuroimmunology…PNI…that seems interesting, which talks about the changes in mental and emotional states that can bring about changes in physical well being. If any one is interested in it, the Bristol Approach To Living With Cancer is a good read.
Best wishes
Leadie
Re your last paragraph Finty, my feelings exactly. I doubt whether we will ever receive ‘proof’ - as who will fund the research? Not the pharmaceutical companies or the dairy industry, that’s for sure!
Imagine if we could all just change our diets instead of taking medicines, the economy might collapse
End of the day I agree with Leadie, have to follow our own paths, and do what we personally believe in, it’s a nightmare with all the conflicting info out there. Even within the medical team treating me, there were so many contradictions in what they advised/laid out as ‘facts’.
ha! Scaryfox, your comment made me laugh, but then stop laughing - it’s a little too uncomfortably true!
Most viewpoints have been put here already, but I’m gonna stick my oar in anyway
I was diagnosed with DCIS a few months ago at the age of 36, having been vegan since 19, vegetarian since 11, and being generally revoltingly wholesome, healthy and active!
When I was at that early stage of searching for the reasons, I seemed to just find conflicting reports about dairy/soya products, and really couldn’t work out whether it was supposed to be a good thing that I was vegan, or a bad thing that I ate a lot of soya products, or a good thing that I ate lots of soya products…! And I’m still not at all sure.
I haven’t believed in veganism for many years, but the habit is ingrained, and the thought of eating dairy now makes me a bit nauseous. Since many of you seem to be dabbling with a vegan diet, let me shamelessly plug my recipe website garlicandginger.net
all the best,
emma
btw, MsMolly, are you a relapsed/recovered? vegan? I may have got the wrong end of the stick, but I think you said you were vegan on page 1, and then enthusing about feta on page 2…?
Plant’s scentific credentials in the field of medicine are not impressive at all. In fact she has none. She is a geologist.
I have a perfectly open mind Finty - I am just not impressed by bad science. And this is really bad science. The one thing I have learned since being diagnosed with this disease is that every charlatan and quack out there is trying to peddle some idea that will cure cancer.
I want facts from well researched extensive peer-reviewed studies.
I would rather listen to the considered, informed advice of Cancer Research and Breakthrough Breast Cancer than the anecdote of a geologist.
Breast cancer is not one disease it is many. Not all conventional treatments work on all cancers and yet we are supposed to believe that excluding dairy products alone will have some impact on ALL types of cancer regardless of individual pathology?
That is what Plant is claiming. It is ridiculous.
Plant is NOT simply putting forward a hypothesis - she has published books claiming to prevent both breast cancer and prostate cancer. The “No-Dairy Breast Cancer Prevention Program” is not a hypothesis. She is making very serious claims here. Life and death ones. And if you are going to make those claims then (especially if you are a scientist) you had better back them up with some hard core evidence.
How come Plant is now suddenly such an expert on prostate cancer? Depression? Osteoporosis? And all these other books she has suddenly authored. She is not a doctor. She is not a medical researcher. Why should I listen to her any more than I should be impressed by the anecdote from my neighbour that 40 fags a day keep her healthy?
I have never understood this idea that milk is not designed for adult human consumption. We as a species make use of all manner of things on this planet for our survival. You might as well say that we shouldn’t eat seafood. Or legumes. Or nuts. Or rabbits. Or anything!
My grandmother’s generation drank loads and loads of full fat unpasteurised milk, ate loads of butter and cheese.
And they had lower rates of breast cancer than we do.
So how does that figure in Plant’s theories?
What people include or exclude in their diet is entirely their look out - but I do take exception to women being made to feel “guilty” for wanting to eat cheese in case they do the “wrong thing”. I feel for them because there is NO evidence that dairy and cancer are linked at all and they are putting themselves under unnecessary pressure and denying themselves pleasures at a time in their life when they should just be enjoying food and enjoying life.
(Yes Elwood - veggy all my life and then vegan for 9 years. Now veggy again with occasional fish.)
I read the J Plant Book, I remain unconvinced that one single cause could be responsible for my BC.
Overall, I lead a “healthy” lifestyle, don’t drink, don’t smoke, not obese etc. I wouldn’t dream of feeling guilty for getting BC because I consumed dairy. However, I would like to see more independent research, but fear the pharmaceutical and food giants have a strong hold on what data we have access to. xxxTina
I certainly don’t see going dairy free as a miracle cure (or prevention) I also think that if i took action to avoid everything that is identified as likely to be associated with Bc then I would never eat anything and be miserable. But after a regional recurrence in 2008, 4 years after dx and mx and anc this time with + nodes in pectoral muscle and her2+, I decided, after reading Plant’s book and thinking carefully about it, that even if there was no guarantee, I owed it to myself to go as dairy free as i could if there was even a chance that it might help. I had lived for cheese and lattes for years! I now eat as little dairy as possible, but don’t stress if it is impossible (e.g. on holiday in Moscow where i had no idea what contained dairy and what did not) and I do have some soya products (but not loads). I prefer soya milk in my tea and coffee now! I don’t know whether going dairy free has helped or not, will never know. But it just feels “right” to me, so i will do it.And in the end that’s all we can do - what feels right for us.
Look how much sugar and dairy we ‘should’ be eating. Whereas I thought refined sugar had no nutritional value whatsoever? And plenty of cultures around the world do just fine without ANY dairy! (Around 75% are thought to be lactose intolerant). Are these proportions optimal for our health, or for industry do you reckon?
That looks like a proportionally well balanced diet to me.
The Eatwell chart has been developed by FSA nutritionists to advise a nation that is plummeting into gross obesity and it does the job quite effectively I think.
“The Food Standards Agency is an independent Government department set up by an Act of Parliament in 2000 to protect the public’s health and consumer interests in relation to food.”
So where exactly does “industry” come into this? It is the complete antithesis of industry!
Incidentally obesity - unlike dairy products - has a proven link to breast cancer risk.
Who on earth is claiming that 75% of people are lactose intolerant? That has to be the single most bogus statistic I have ever heard.
Sweeties = no health benefit, so why is it recommended we eat them at all? Fair enough, we all do stuff that isn’t good for us, like smoke/drink, but that’s at our own risk. But this (government approved) chart tells us we ‘should’ eat a certain amount of junk. Can’t think of any other reason but to keep the food industries happy… as we certainly don’t NEED junk in our diet, tasty as it is.
Appreciate that wikipedia might not be the most reliable source there is, but have come across similar statistics all over the place. Know plenty of people personally who have problems digesting it, so I don’t find it that hard to believe! I’m no expert though so if anyone else has evidence that this is a load of b*ll then please post!
They aren’t recommending we eat junk at all - they are saying that there is still room for treats within a well-balanced healthy diet so that we don’t all have to live like buddhist monks.
How is this keeping “industry” happy? Do you honestly believe that there is some evil cabal of sweetie manufacturers in league with shady elements of the government plotting to give us all cancer by promoting naughty foods?
The FSA works to monitor and prevent additives in our food etc. They are not the enemy.
“Approximately 75% of the world’s population loses the ability to completely digest a physiological dose of lactose after infancy”.
This does not say that 75% of adults are lactose intolerant. The study cited suggests that 75% of the world’s population, once they reach adulthood, are not as capable of digesting lactose as effectively as they did when they were children.
This is not the same as full on lactose intolerance. In fact in Northern Europe they say it is only 5% because we have historically developed the ability to digest milk as we have come from pastoral communities.
“However, certain human populations have a mutation on chromosome 2 which eliminates the shutdown in lactase production, making it possible for members of these populations to continue consumption of fresh milk and other dairy products throughout their lives without difficulty. This appears to be an evolutionarily recent adaptation to dairy consumption, and has occurred independently in both northern Europe and east Africa in populations with a historically pastoral lifestyle.”
So basically 95% of Northern Europeans have no problem digesting dairy whatsoever because we have a gut that over 1000s of years adjusted itself to accommodate it in adulthood. Isn’t the human body amazing?
Re the shady stuff - it’s not that simple. Money is far more important to companies/organisations than the health of individuals, surely?
And who are these FSA nutritionists? I’ve never met or heard of a nutritionist who advises that amount of sweets/dairy. And the chart clearly says “should” and not that it’s just for treats.
Don’t get me wrong, I eat chocolate (vegan) and the odd gluten free cake And I don’t beat myself up about it because I’m not perfect. But if I consult a nutritionist (which I do, frequently!) I expect to be told which foods will BENEFIT my health, and which won’t. Whether I follow that advice to the tee is up to me.
