lesbian feminist perspectives on bc

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This is all fascinating stuff! Many years ago (in the Spare Rib days - remember that anyone?!) I was very political about my sexuality, but that has lessened a lot over the years. Both my partner and I look very ‘normal/ordinary/heterosexual’ (delete as you prefer!) and I am in a job that excludes me from being open about my orientation. I think that perhaps this external enforced ‘normality’ has almost switched the campaigning part of my brain off!

When my partner was diagnosed it never crossed either of our minds that she might ask for reconstruction. For her, it’s partly about her perception of being ‘an old lady’(!) - she is twenty years older than me - and for me it’s about not mucking around with the body by subjecting it to unnecessary surgery (I accept, of course, that for some women it feels completely essential).

I have a strong family history of breast cancer and so have also thought about this on my own behalf; I am as sure as I can be without being actually in the situation that I would not seek reconstruction. However, if my twenty-one year old daughter had a mastectomy I would support her fully in going for further surgery. So… is it an age-related thing, perhaps?

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No answers - just more questions/observations! I hadn’t thought about straight women possibly being perceived as lesbians due to being flat chested and having very short hair…though maybe I should have done, since that’s something I used to come up against all the time when I was younger! I have a motorbike, don’t wear make-up, used to have extremely short hair (who can be bothered with helmet hair at a bike rally?), tattoos…doc martens, and I was endlessly ‘accused’ (like it is a crime??) of being a lesbian… mostly, I might add, by young men with smaller motorbikes than my own! I just put it down to their insecurity, and as it wasn’t a comment that offended me, I was fortunate that it was never an issue for me. Generally speaking, most of the men throwing the comments were so unattractive that if they were the only men available…well, the women would have been a far better prospect!

(I hope I’m not offending anyone - my gay friends have never taken offence at any of my comments, so I’m just talking to you all like I would them - let me know if I do upset you in any way, last thing I plan).

It does still horrify and sadden me that the gay community suffers so greatly - both verbally and physically - unfortunately there are always going to be people in society who seek to belittle/subjugate/humiliate/torture others - out of ignorance/fear… and dare I say, insecurity about their own sexuality?

Having said all that - I do find myself thinking that I should maybe start wearing make-up once my hair goes… but I think that is more to cheer myself up, make myself feel better about any forthcoming lack of eyebrows, than to broadcast that actually…I am woman…I am female… I am still a sexual being and deserve to be attractive… or is it? Is it society’s expectation?

My personal viewpoint is that anyone who made derogatory/offensive/or simply quite inappropriate remarks about my lack of chest would not be deserving of any explanation… so I’d fall back on the time honoured tradition of two fingers and a hearty f**k off. But then, I’m not a dainty, elegant creature… so it’s quite easy for me. And I think my protest/militant days are over. Twenty years ago, my reaction might have been very different.

See… not a single question answered! Sorry Norberte… but this is a fascinating thread.

Sophie xxx

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Just posted that last, then remembered a comment that a good friend of mine falls back on (another fabulous biker b**ch!!) when anyone makes derogatory remarks. Constantly accused of being a dyke, she’d flutter her eyelashes, wiggle her ample bosom and respond “Only on a Thursday”, then walk away. No one ever managed a decent come back to that…

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Ha! Great post Norberte.

Btw - do you EVER sleep?!

Sass xx

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<grin> - lovely post n!! </grin>

Sadly ‘accused’ is all too often how it comes across - and ‘dyke’ used with a sneer… it wasn’t until I had gay friends that I understood that it was a word that actually was used with much affection - and pride, you’re right.

However, though the gay community are comfortable using it, because of it’s derogatory use in ignorant straight hands, ‘dyke’ for me is just too Prisoner Cell Block H… and I can’t reconcile the word in my head with the beautiful women I know!!

Anyhow, I’d better disappear out of it… feel like I’m hijacking a thread that really is nothing to do with me!!!

Love to you all, hope you all have a ‘good’ day today and find at least five things that make you laugh.

Sophie xxx

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Hetty Betty…hehehehehehe…(feel free)

Sophie xxxx

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You know, it’s weird, I haven’t thought about this at all, despite reading and having a personal interest in transgender. The scene in Stone Butch Blues, where the main character has a double mastectomy thru choice was really powerful.

Personally, my boobs are part of my visual image of myself. I thought about mx but choose wle instead because I couldn’t imagine myself without boobs. I would have recon if I had to have mx. Like I said, personal choice due to my own body image.

HOWEVER. A woman is a woman if she believes she is regardless of breasts OR genitalia is my opinion.

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Norberte, this is a terrific thread, I just wish I hadn’t read it right before bedtime because it’ll have me thinking when I should be just sleeping…

A collection of thoughts for you, to do with the definition of “female”. Well, questions - yes more of those - and my perception of some views that exist, rather than my own thoughts and views. [[[Add disclaimer: I am not intending offence to anyone who may be reading this post, but wish to join in the discussion, though I realise some of the ideas may be less than appealing.]]]

Breast doesn’t equal femaleness, breast equals male-dominated heterosexual sex.

Did a time ever exist in our society when the breast was just another part of the body, like an ankle? (Mind you there WAS a time when ANKLES were overtly sexual and even the piano legs had to be covered!)

People (generic) often equate the notion of femaleness ONLY with sexually active heterosexual females, so that if you’re not a Harriet-Elizabeth (we’re posh in Surrey, don’t ya know, none of this nickname shennanegins here!) who gets laid with frequent regularity by a bloke, then you’re not “female”. If you are celibate, then you’re not “female”. If you’re lesbian, you’re not “female”. You therefore don’t NEED anything that defines “female”.

‘Why do nuns bother having breasts? They don’t have sex, so they don’t “need” their breasts. What a waste.’ Could easily be a quote. (Not my own view, but I have heard that kind of thing expressed.)

Could the same view be repeated substituting “lesbians” for “nuns”? Both ideas are equally - what’s the best word here? unacceptable / inadequate / ignorant / rubbish / biggotted / b****cks / all of the previous plus more.

So could this thread cover lesbian feminist perspectives on breasts, and not just breast cancer? I think before we can look at perspectives on breast CANCER specifically regarding lesbian feminists, perhaps we need to try and figure out where breasts fit in first, before the disease and its treatment.

Blimey, I see what you mean, this does just bring up more questions when you try to write it down, doesn’t it…

Right, got to go and try to sleep. Will now be thinking about this thread as I toss and turn, and hopefully snore once or twice.

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I now have no breasts and no uterus but definitely consider myself a woman!!

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It has occured to me that my body image may be different if I’d had small boobs before bc. Mine have been so big for as long as I can remember I think even my posture would be thrown off if I suddenly didn’t have them.

It does worry me tho. If it turns out my cancer was genetic then I will need a double mx. Not sure how I’ll cope with that huge change.

Jo XX

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