Occupational sick pay

Hi everyone

Just wanted a bit of advice. I know its probably dependent on your organisation, but maybe someone in HR may have an idea.

I have currently been off work for 9 weeks. Had 2 operstions. I will start chemotherapy in 2 weeks for 6 month’s.

My organisation has a 6 months full pay and 6 month half pay policy. (Good i know) I Was speaking to my boss today, who was concerned id end up on half pay for a few month if i didnt go back until treatment was complete. Est May 24. After radiotherapy as well.

He suggested i work from home during chemotherapy, albeit when i can and have days off when i cant. This would mean im not using up the 6 months.

I think this would be fine, but if i dont get a sick note, and just work when i can. Would i need to keep gettimg sick notes if i needed a week off after each chemo? Also if after a a month or so trying to work when i can if i was too ill to work, so got signed off till treatmentis over, i assume the 6 months dont start again and would still only get the remaining weeks up to the 6 months within the initial 180 day period, so would still end when it originally would have if i hasnt worked at all.

So i guess after all the above is the general rule you only cann get full pay for 6bmobthd in an 180 day period. It cannot be split.

Thanks

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I can’t say about the lawful or organisational processes but I was signed off for 2 weeks for my mastecomy, happily went back to work on a phased return to work plan for just 2 weeks before my chemo started.

When I met my onc consultant to talk about my chemo/rads plan, we discussed work.

I’d gone mad if I couldn’t have worked when I felt well enough. My treatment was in the latter months of lockdown, which probably influenced my decision - gave me interaction with people when we couldn’t meet anyone.

The consultant agreed to do a to whom it may concern letter to say about my treatment, that she’d sign me off for six months but after discussing with me was in agreement to please allow ‘my name’ to work as she feels able. Words to that effect anyhow.

She also said the 6 months signed off could be extended.

I had a wfh desk job and 1 yr of full pay off sick.

When I had chemo every 3 weeks, I worked the 3rd week. When I was on weekly chemos (on Fridays) I worked Tuesdays to Thursdays and did Friday am if the appointment was pm. I only did 5-6 hours a day when I worked rather than the full 7.25.

My boss took all my work off me and gave me little projects (the things we always wanted to do but never got time for them) for the duration.

For rads, I took a few hours off each day for my appointments. Don’t tell anyone but I did have a ‘sod it I’m having a week off’ that I took as sick leave just before my rads started. Well, it was early summer by then!

My sick record only showed the full days I was off.

My boss had a HR sickness specialist assigned so they caught up regularly to make sure everyone was happy with our agreed approach and I was not over doing things

A long winded answer but I wanted to give you a bigger picture. I hope that helps - even if it gives you something for another chat with your boss.

Hi @LEONA47

Yes unfortunately you are right - any sickness you have had in the last year for any reason will count towards your 6 months full sick pay.
If you aren’t sure exactly how many days you have taken contact your boss or Payroll / Finance should be able to tell you and give an exact date when you would go down to half pay if you stay off.

In some circumstances in some organizations you can use annual leave that you haven’t taken because of sickness to prolong the amount of time you can be off before you have to go onto half pay. Your boss or HR / Finance should be able to tell you if that’s feasible or if there’s any leave you can use .

As regards sicknotes anyone can sign themselves off sick for 1 week - more than 1 week at a time and you would need a sicknote . If it becomes a regular thing then sometimes managers ask an employee to get a Drs. note but possibly not in your circumstances as it’s a known and long term issue .Again I would check if your organisation has any rules about that - your boss should be able to find out if they aren’t already aware.

I’ve known people who have been able to work through chemo or go back after chemo then sick again during radiotherapy - some had worked through radio . It sounds like you have a supportive boss who is prepared to be flexible at least . You are probably best placed to know how feasible it is but it might be worth giving it a go - all I would say is have an agreed schedule for keeping in touch and if you find it’s too much then be honest about it. As time goes on you will know how it affects you and may be able to work out what you can and can’t do. .
Best of luck with it all and take care
Joanne. X

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Hi @LEONA47 - it’s a bit long but hope it will help and please do not hesitate to ask any follow up questions!

I am a Senior HR business partner and I would always suggest my employees to take the time off if they need too. If you’re company offer 6 months full pay and 6 months half pay, that’s great. You’re also entitled by law up to 28 weeks SSP, statutory sickness pay.
I would also enquire to HR about long term disability scheme, such as Group income projection (GIP) which your condition will cover. It usually offers 60 to 66% of your base salary and should be under your benefits section of the intranet or just speak to your manager/HR direct. They need to raise a claim and it can be a lengthy process, so for example I (as HR) would have to raise the claim within 3 to 6 weeks of the long term absence being declared (when it’s declared) and give evidence (sick note)
That’s kind of the "formal " route in case you run out of informal options.

I would say I have 2 good weeks (ish) out of 3 and my employer has been really flexible and didn’t put any pressure on me to work. I’ve just started treatment so also still adapting. I’d like to work it’s whether I can further down the line. Have 6 months of chemo too, my situation is slightly more complex as was on fixed term contract ending in December. Anyway.

To your question:
Would i need to keep getting sick notes if i needed a week off after each chemo? See below:

I would check with your employer/manager how they want sickness recorded. Usually the sickness clock does stop if you’re back at work ofc, but doesn’t restart to zero if you had time at work, and you’re off sick for the same condition.
Your manager should enquire about how to record your absence w HR (If he hasn’t already) or agree w you how he wants to be notified. I think he’s trying to help you, by going the informal route, by saying keep "working " when you can and this could be half day every so often but I would also make sure you get whatever agreement/arrangements in writing to cover yourself (your manager could move to another job for example). He’s thinking is, if you’re not officially off sick, and no sickness appears in the system you’ll remain on full pay without tapping into your sickness allowance. Which is fine if you and your manager are on the same page and there isn’t the expectation of delivering work if /when you’re unwell. He’ll also have to think about the team moral /dynamic if you’re part a big team butbthsst for him to manage!!

To your question:
So i guess after all the above is the general rule you only cann get full pay for 6bmobthd in an 180 day period. It cannot be split.

I don’t know the rules in your company, sorry you would need to check BUT in my experience you should be able to split it. That’s what usually happens if you had a cold (a week) a minor op (6 weeks full pay) and broken arm (8 weeks full pay) in same year for example or simply a mental illness which allows you to work some time but not all of the time. You employer should offer flexible working pattern to adjust to your condition and how you feel (that’s by law anyway and your doctor can tick "fit for work but w amended duties).
You need to get hold of your handbook, sickness absence policy and check your contract to see what they say. Most company who offers company sickness pay /allowance, if first day of sickness started on 1st September 2023 for example, is based on a 12 months rolling basis: meaning that the clock wouldn’t restart in Jan 24 for example. (Hard for me to be definitive as I don’t work where you are but they seem alright!) Please do check that.

I would definitely check the policy and procedures.
I would speak to your manager and ask about how he wants to be notified about your sickness
I would confirm whether or not you’re happy to work reduce hours and that doesn’t mean reduction in pay (that’s the key bit) have that in writing (email is fine)
I would confirm your typical pattern of work. Ei week 1: off sick or work from home. Week 2 to 4 : work from home 3 half days for example.
I would keep a track Record for myself of the days intake off sick. If you have a system where you can directly enter your absence, like self service (SAP HR or workday) I would enter my sickness directly (if that’s what your manager is happy for you to do) usually reports are then run by HR payroll and they can see who was off sick and for how many days. They can share that w you. That is the official route, as anything recorded formally in a system, payroll and HR will see and the sickness allowance clock will start counting the days off sick.

If you’ve agreed an informal route, with no recording of absence of absence management, system, simply keep track for yourself.
Last but no least. Which ever you agree from your conversation w manager, he should be following up in an email. If he doesn’t for a couple of day, I would suggest you did!

Sorry long winded answer but I tried to break it down for you and I hope this helps.
Don’t hesitate to ask any questions!! :purple_heart:
Gwen xx

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Agree with @pinklilli3s

My council, I work in school, have six months full pay and six months half pay rolling over 12 months. I was ill with pneumonia Jan/Feb for 5 weeks so that reduced full.pay for BC. I’ve been off since diagnosis as head thought I need time to come to terms, which I did then loads off appointments,surgery,now chemo and Herceptin followed by radiotherapy and continued Herceptin for year with aromatase inhibitors. So full year of treatment after surgery. With fatigue, brain fog, beginning of peripheral neuropathy,aches pains to name but a few ,I can’t teach, plan or prep lessons. Not to mention risk of infections from the kids close contact for hours.
No option to WFH.

My full.pay finished 1 Oct and SSP finishes 22 Nov. Been sent SSP1 to send for Employment and support allowance and sent fit for work note. Completed early but won’t hear from them until two weeks after SSP stops. I’ve also applied for PIP. I work part time and hope it will cover most of my salary if successful. Btw you can claim PIP if working aswell.

@pinklilli3s is it normal for HR to tell my head not to contact me? I’ve been off before with surgery and had to touch base at least once a month. Is it because it’s cancer. Nobody has given me a reason. It feels like I’ve been left and ignored not at all the school or the council’s wellbeing policy! I do text my boss every couple of weeks, the staff that have my number won’t contact me either for fear of getting into trouble! I said I don’t mind the contact and left my number for all in staff room should they want to. It feels a bit sad they fear contacting me and for what reason. I’ve had no direct contact from HR either explaining. Only standardised payroll letter re sick pay. I even tried to contact union rep and they replied about union membership reduction but nothing about contact issues instructed by HR.

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Hi
Not sure if this is of any help but I work in secondary school has a TA. Had my first op on 31st March this year, worked up until the day before. Fortunately the 2 weeks I had off for a lumpectomy fell in Easter holidays. I returned at the start of term. Unfortunately it was found in my lymph node so back again on the 6th May. Due to a cock up on my line mangers part I finished two days before op when she changed my time table and emailed out to everyone putting me in a priority time table not my regular one. Not only letting everyone know I was not going to be in again but added stress due to the change which shouldn’t happened till I had left.
I had an allergic reaction to antibiotics so op was cancelled ended up in icu and returned again on the 6Th July. Thankfully 14 nodes were clear.
HR told me my full pay would end on the 2/11 but I began a phased return at the start of September. My oncologist said radiotherapy would start in December. So depending on dates will tag on to Christmas holidays for recovery. School holidays have worked in my favour for recovery but have been just that not holidays.
How I feel right now? Fed up with waiting I thought being back at work would help but I find it meaningless. I was always passionate about my job but feel sad that so many students are missing out whilst dealing with behaviour and the quiet ones at the back that are struggling don’t get help. I know I am stuck till next year to move on. Waiting for a someone like me phone call. Tired of feeling in limbo.

Anne x

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Hi @naughty_boob
I’ll try to reply the best I can, given that I don’t know your policy and procedures in your school.
Any long term sickness means that there is no expectation from you to work. Therefore their guide lines seems “Normal”. That said, did HR explicitly said NOT to contact you or receive general updates about the school activities? (I personally would gently challenge that if I were you, as I think some remaining contact every so often is beneficial - see below)

In my experience (HR and personal ) and this is my 2nd cycle, I ve informed my boss that I would like to “keep in touch” and I give him regular updates, at least once every two weeks and when he wants to hear from me he drops me a text. I got a text last night and last time we spoke wa in my "good " week nearly 2 weeks ago. They are being flexible and supportive. I have this mat leave fixed term contract till December and hoping there is another job, perm, that I could apply to, otherwise I’ll have nothing. I try not to think about it or it gives me waves of anxiety!!

In your case, and for me to respond accordingly, if I were you, I would try to check with your head if HR has expressly told your head and team not to contact you?
From my experience, in general I would expect managers to touch base once a month minimum or every 2 weeks. Or the employee to give an update. That is because as a HRBP I’d like to know how my employees are doing and see how I could support. However it’s the manager responsibility to do that task as he’s got the relationship w the team/you.

In your case this is something which seems need clarifying, perhaps the conversation didn’t take place before you left which is normally is when it happens. I would encourage you to email your manager/head and HR and say that you would like to be kept in touch of any school activities…is there a team meeting perhaps you could join on as hoc basis, if you feel like it?
You could also consider phased return as mentioned by Louise or part time work if you feel like it. (I know am not at the moment). You could also simply agree to have a regular catch up every two weeks.

As for your team, I would not worry to much. If you are close to one or two of them, do text them. It seems a bit sad they are in fear to contact you and it might take some initiative from your head to encourage them and you discussing this topic w him as well, to clarify.
I got message at the beginning from my team and just got one yesterday from a colleague, it was a month in-between. When I am not “well” I don’t mind not hearing from people as I don’t want to rehash how unwell I am!

I would also encourage you to check your pension and benefits details and see if there is some sort of group income protection offered or long term disability scheme you could apply… your benefits HR person may be able to help.
Not sure unions are the route, I think keep communication as frequent as friendly as you can when you can (pls note I work in private sector and culture/behaviour may differ from public) yet this sounds a communication issue and organisational /logistic issue rather than something deeper (unless HR expressly said not to contact you then without repeating myself I would find out why and go tgri6the process step highlited above)

Another long winded response, am afraid as nothing is really black and white but hope this helps and you get some resolution :crossed_fingers:.

Any other questions, please do not hesitate to ask!!
@louise67 I get your point about not feeling motivated. However I do take some satisfaction in helping people still (like on here) and I hope I am able to go back to work at some point. Just quite a lot of up and down and no sleep, we all know what it is. I am not sure I would want to go back to the exact same job I was doing but if there was an opportunity for a change and open position for HR Diversity and Inclusion I would lap it up and apply, even though my heart is still very much within business partnering, I feel there is some much more I could do on the diversity equity and inclusion side. I am keeping my fingers crossed for you that seeing things how they really are, is not too painful and for me that another job comes through in this same company :crossed_fingers::crossed_fingers::crossed_fingers:
Going back to bed for some sleep after taking my meds!!! Still figuring out how to get rid of constipation :grimacing: this cycle was not good for my gut and got also UTI great!!! big hugs xxx

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As you have said I’ve missed out on school holidays, in most other jobs if you’re off sick you get the holidays back but it doesn’t seem so in schools, you just miss them. It’s so unfair. So good you were able to work but my mind was not in it, I would cry at the drop of a hat in the beginning and as I took whole classes that couldn’t happen.

My mind is that my job at the moment is to do the treatment then see if I want to return, im 55 in February and could take my pension through ill health. I had already thought about redundancy earlier this year as I was struggling with menopausal symptoms and schools are not easy just to go to the toilet or have a hot flush in the middle of class, let alone brain fog.

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Thanks @pinklilli3s I popped in early on to see everyone and my head said she had been told from HR not to contact me, she later repeated it in a text. I do periodically sent a text with an update and am happy for contact. I may have to send an email and add in HR as you’ve said to clarify their reason why. I will ask about disability etc via pension benefits

I’m sure your experience of breast cancer would be beneficial to others in HR.

Had terrible night last night due to steroids managed 1 1/2 sleep then awake for 4 hours and then dozed very lightly for another 3. Now I have an issue with PICC line so am awaiting helpline call back, could be 3 70 mile trips again this week. That’s all I need with so little sleep.

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Hi Naughty boob

Yes to “I may have to send an email and add in HR as you’ve said to clarify their reason why. I will ask about disability etc via pension benefits” you’re going to have to take the lead on this one and ask why HR said you can’t be contacted. Maybe they don’t know you want the updates :woman_shrugging: seems a bit silly and counter productive especially if you do intend to come back at some point, it’s easier to have but size chuncks updates than 6 months worth of it in one go!!

On : "in most other jobs if you’re off sick you get the holidays back but it doesn’t seem so in schools, you just miss them. It’s so unfair. "

What is your employment status? If perm or fixed term contract by law you’re entitled to at least 5.6 weeks (Holiday entitlement: Entitlement - GOV.UK ). You guys in school may get more (I work in private sector) and I would check the terms of your contract and get hold of ACAS helpline to find out Contact us | Acas , tell them you think you might have missed out of payment of holidays. Did you have to book them and can you take them them.off retrospectively and get that time paid? It does seem unfair at first thought but I don’t have all facts and knowledge about your school. Worst investigating though and exploring school policy and handbook on holidays. Private and school will differ.
Maybe Macmillan of breast cancer now can also guide you.
If you’re self employed or employed via agency and do the odd days or work part time on perm or FTC fixed term contract, entitlement will be prorated.
In either cases, Payments will depend on what the school/ company policy states which Yiu need to get hold of.

Best of luck xxxx any questions again feel free to ask.

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I’m permanent and the holidays are fixed by school terms, although I only work 38 weeks so I get an extra week off term time but I was signed off at this time. I am paid for the holiday but being off sick and ill meant I couldn’t use them. My husband is private sector and he books holiday and if off sick they are removed and you re boo at a later date. In school I pre Ben off through half term and Xmas and lost 3 weeks ‘break/holiday’ in which I couldn’t do anything and was just told it’s tough. I am check with ACAS as it does seem unfair maybe they could tag it onto time at end of sickness and before I return?

It will depend what your absence policy say. I would try to get hold it before you speak to Acas.
In general terms, If you’ve accrued the holidays but not taken it and you’re off sick, it should carry on to accrue (similar to mat leave or mental illness, and long term absence like broken arm or… cancer :woman_shrugging:)
They may have a cap or date by you need to take your holidays (check as it should be extended for you as you’re off sick and not physically able to take holiday as such)
It’s hard for me to say without seeing the policy and being in the industry but it may be useful to find out in case you run out of the 28 weeks SSP eventually, so you could tag accrued holiday which will be full pay (side note best to take holiday as if you get it paid you get taxed on it but you could half and half for example)

Hope this helps xxx

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If I have to have anymore long term sickness ( hope not ) and I need advice I’ll be asking you !

Joanne x

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Thank you and I pray that you don’t, for anything!! 🩷

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