oestrogen and dairy products
oestrogen and dairy products For those of us with oestrogen-receptive cancers, the mixed messages around whether or not to cut down on dairy and soya products in order to reduce oestrogen levels is really confusing.
Surely, with the onslaught of chemo and (for many of us, the onset of the menopause) oestrogen levels dramatically drop in the body anyway. I’ve heard that too little oestrogen is a major factor in the onset of osteoparosis.
As a lifelong vegetarian who has a relatively low-fat diet, I’m really struggling with the advice from several quarters (including the Breast Cancer Haven in London) to also limit soya products and cut out dairy.
I’m wondering if this is really advisable. I’ve not found much useful info about this on the web but some of you may have researched this?
Thoughts and advice welcome.
Many thanks
Ravinia
Ravinia dairy products are full of nutrients you need. But go for organic dairy as there is a lot less oestrogen and more beneficial CLA in them.
There are schools of thought which advise that milk will kill you/keep you healthy- choice is yours but there are an awful lot of “proven” hobby horses around! Later there is new info saying that the sampling was unreliable.
There has been quite a lot online recently advising western ladies to avoid soy.
You pays your money and takes your choice. Best guide is how you feel with or without this or that.
Even after menopause there is a certain amount of oestrogen made by your body. Fat generates it too.
In general with br ca all answers are worked out from statistics [how many did/didn’t die] and none of us know where we are on the statistical scale So best advice is as varied a diet as you can get and stick to what suits you, best wishes, dilly
Hi, I’m a vegetarian like you and have been for over 20 years. I was also very confused about the available info on soya and other sources of phyto oestrogen. I discussed this with my oncologist who advised me to avoid phyto oestroegens as my cancer tested oestrogen receptor positive. I don’t actually eat much dairy produce becasue I don’t like it- I find most cheese to be fatty tasting- I buy milk from an organic dairy and have done for a few years now.
I am avoiding toiletries and cosmetics that contain parabens as they mimic the action of oestrogen. I do find it confusing to know what is best to do and it does make you very paranoid.
Regards
Geraldine.
Osteoporosis Guidelines for Breast Cancer Survivors are Comi I just wanted to say that your concern about osteoporosis is understandable. At my last appointment, the oncologist said that NICE would soon be coming out with guidelines on how the risk of osteoporosis should be handled after treatment for breast cancer, so it will be interesting to hear what they say.
Soya products Hi girls
As I had CA twice, and my tumour was highly ER+, I have been advised by my consultant not to take any products containing soya or other plant based isoflavonoides, as they all contain small amounts of oestrogen. Between first dx and recurrence I had been taking a lot of soya to combat all the menopause symptoms caused by Tamoxifen and also took loads of supplements, but have now had to stop all of these. Although they can’t say whether there is a direct link, it does make you think.
However, I do eat yoghurt and have some milk as I want to protect my bones, especially as I am now on Arimidex which causes oesteoporosis.
Birgit
Hi all Breast Cancer Care have written a publication called ’ Bone health and breast cancer’ which you may find helpful to read, you can read it online via this link or contact our helpline on 0808 800 6000 for a copy to be sent out to you:
breastcancercare.org.uk/docs/bone_health_0.pdf
Kind regards
BCC Host
Thanks for the advice everyone. It is confusing isn’t it? There’s also the research showing that oestrogens orginating from cows is found attached to most oestrogen-receptive tumours. The nutritionist at the Breast Cancer Haven in London recommends cutting out dairy altogether. Meantime, others say its necessary for good bone health (moderator - can’t find the BCC pamphlet on this subject but will ring for a copy).
Stuck betwixt the rock and a hard place as usual!
I can empathise with all this confusion - as soon as one bit of research is out, another comes out contradicting it.
Are you on tamoxifen? Unlike Arimidex, Tamoxifen protects the bones, and also the femal reproductory tract.
Hi Tigerlily,
I will be on Tamoxifen when all the chemo and radiotherapy is finished. Your comment about it protecting the bones is interesting - I’ll ask my Onc when I can.
Thanks
Ravinia
Dairy products I too have been through the dairy dilemma - having read Jane Plants book. I am no Einstein but a lot of what she said made sense. I never used to think about what was in my food etc. however, she does advise that cows are given hormones to help them produce excess milk. Now that worries me - as I too had a highly ER positive BC. I now buy only organic dairy products - and can’t taste any difference. Have now got my hubby and klids on it and preach to anyone who’ll listen about the benefits of organic!!
Lynne
X
It is illegal in Europe to feed cows on these hormones. It is a major problem in the US. Jane Plant is writing for the American market, so her book can be misleading for Europeans in some respects.
Apart from oestrogen like substances in food, I’m concerned about those used as preservatives in toiletries, cosmetics etc. I typed phyto oetrogens into Google and it came up with a lot of info about parabens. They have an oestrogen like effect on the body and have a cumulutive affect in your system. There are often up to 5 different types in some products and I found that they are used particulalry in products that are rubbed onto the skin i.e moisturiser, body lotion, etc. And guess who uses most of these products…us girls! More worryingly, they are put into male grooming products. I spoke to my oncologist about this. He told me that we don’t fully understand the effects of these substances but that we are building up a lot of problems for the future. Whilst I’m not panicking that the products I’ve used for years have been soley responsible for causing my cancer, I certainly don’t feel they have helped. I avoid them like the plague now and I’ve thrown out everything (including my son’s stuff) that contained parabens. There’s plenty of research showing that there is genuine concern about these products from various quarters and they have been found in breast cancers.
Geraldine
Phyto-oestrogens et al Very interesting thread - I have Crohn’s, as well as bc,so for some 30 yrs I have been on a high protein diet - cheese, chicken, fish,eggs etc. that all are purported to have synthetic hormones., and virtually no fibre as it gives me instant diarrohea.
However, I have never used skin products, being blessed (!!!)with a lovely ’ English rose’ skin. Never had acne or spots. So, parabens can’t be the reason why I got bc, can it? Perhaps these doctors, or quacks, are clutching at straws in order to vaiidate their research. In my case, it doesn’t hold up. I do have a lot of time for environmental issues but think it really comes down to genetics. As My GP said: “Liz, you were dealt a poor hand when you were born!”. Kind of makes it easier to live with these two diseases when you know you didn’t do anything wrong, just born with the problem.
Oh, that we had some answers, but don’t think it will come in my lifetime, so just getting on with life best I can, as you all are doing.
Liz.
Genetic factor I’m not saying that parabens caused my cancer but avoiding them can’t be a bad thing. At least to reduce the toxic load that we’re all subjected to has to help in even a small way. My treatment involves knocking out my ovaries to prevent them from producing oestrogen so I’m not going to put more into my system. I don’t believe researchers are quacks any more or less than the doctors who are treating all of us. As for the genetic factor, is that just a good cop out when they don’t know what the cause is? It’s also a way of putting the blame/responsibility back onto the patient. Personally there is no evidence of a genetic factor in my family and I don’t have any of the other risk factors i.e. wieght, bad diet, smoking etc. In fact there was n’t anything else I could have done to reduce my risk. I don’t believe we have a government that is very motivated towards prevention. Their current emphasis is on life style. Yeah right, like that would have really helped me. So when that isn’t the issue, what else are they going to do? Government tend to be reactive in their approach, not proactive, certainly not in a way that obliges them to commit more money or to upset big business by suggesting that they have some responsibility.
Geraldine
Spoke to my oncologist to get his view on the benefits of cutting out dairy and soya with oestrogen receptive cancer.
He said that the oestrogens we get from our diet only form about a hundredth of the oestrogen produced by our bodies. He was very sceptical therefore about the benefits of cutting out dairy from the diet.
So, basically, like all the other things, we still only have ‘indicators’ and need a hell of a lot more research to get to the bottom of things. Like Geraldine, I have none of the so-callled ‘risk factors’ and suspect that environmental factors have an important part to play.
organic milk If you buy organic milk, does that guarantee that the cows haven’t been given additional hormones? Does that make a significant difference in terms of the hormones that will (presumably) be in the milk naturally? Have any of you looked into this?
Thanks
Let me re-emphasise that in Europe generally, and in Britain in particular, it is illegal to feed cattle with growth hormones. Even non-organic milk in Europe will have solely natural hormones. However, non-organic farming permits the free use of antibiotics.
Cattle on organic farms must be fed on organic materials (grass or corn and their products), and must not be given any antibiotics, unless the animal’s well-being is at risk. If the animal is treated with antibiotics, its milk or meat must not be used until the drug has left the animal’s system; usually after three months it will be clear.
The situation is very different in the US and other parts of the Americas where cattle are usually fed on growth promoters.
Dairy products - the multiple dangers I’ve just read this thead of posts.
I have triple negative BC, returned after 6.3 years. I am facing another recurrence 3 years on.
My last recurrence popped up just 2 months after multiple “all clears” from blood tests, scans and x-rays.
My present situation is that from the moment the blood analysis gave cause for concern back at the end of June, I adopted the Plant Programme, having already tried everything else! So far, my blood tests are still showing a steady increase in tumour markers but 6 months on, I have more energy, both physically and mentally, than I’ve had since before my mastectomy in 1996, have lost some excess weight and am still symptom free. All scans and x-rays are clear although the acid test will be a PET scan in the next couple of weeks.
I feel that in changing my diet I may have significantly slowed the progress of the disease and have definitely improved my background level of health and strength which will help me to cope with any treatment necessary. I was staggered that I actually enjoyed eating Vegan food and delighted that I never felt hungry AND lost some excess flab. From past experience, I could have been back in serious trouble at least 4 months ago.
I cannot recommend too strongly that you read Jane Plant’s books carefully for yourselves. Don’t rely on media reports.
The Dairy industry employs over 20 million people in Europe so it hsa a big pull on governments. It pays the wages of a significant number of scientists to put out favourable research. It is making an ever increasing fortune out of a successful campaign to sell dairy products as health promoters. This is based on microbes which are added to milk processing which you can buy in any healthfood shop, without the milk!.
Milk before intensive farming may have done little harm. That means - more than 70 years ago. It is a very different product now, heavily polluted and adulterated with seriously dangerous additives in genetically altered cows, bred for productivity and not health, stuffed with antibioics and other drugs which are fed to them in unnatural diets. (Remember BSE? Just an example of what can and does go wrong, and still very much with us.)
See for yourself what Prof. Plant has to say not just about female hormones but particularly the levels of growth hormones and other tumour-promoting factors in dairy products.
Dairy products contain a collosal surplus of calcium, in excess of what our bodies can cope with over the years - cow’s milk is for calves who never drink it again once weaned and grow to adulthood in under 18 months on the calcium they can extract from grass. Human milk is for infants who grow to adulthood in 18 years and can extract all the calcium they need from foods other than dairy. Some dairy products, though stacked full of calcium, generate an acid response in the body which leaches out the calcium our bones have managed to hang on to - hard cheeses being the worst culprits - fostering osteoporosis - yes, the very opposite of the mass messages pumped out by the industry.
What Prof. Plant says is based on serious research of cancer, of the body’s way of controlling it or promoting it, epidemiological studies from around the world and her first hand experience of her recurrent oestrogen positive cancer which was last seen around 13 years ago after 5 rapid and life-threatening recurrences.
There’s a lot of nonsense written about the common sense contained in her books.
I find her approach can do you no harm - I’m also a scientist and until I read her convincing arguments to the contrary, ate yogurt because I thought it was good for me and took lots of supplements too.
If you want to cut out phyto-oestrogens, by the way, you’ll have to stop eating all fruit and vegetables, as they all contain them to some degree. They form the mainstay of a plant’s immune defenses against disease. Interesting, huh? The over-reliance on ONE food, such as soya, which contains a particular type of phyto-oestrogen (albeit at a five hundredth of the concentration of oestrogen found in animal products) is not a good idea, but I’m sure there are no doctors out there who are going to tell you that beans or rice, strawberries or asparagus, for instance, are bad for you.
Sorry for such a very long post. Hope some of it is useful - don’t rely on what I say - just get hold of the books about Jane Plant’s personal journey and research, the Plant Programme diet and also about Osteoporosis and study them. You can get them second hand online if your library doesn’t have a copy available. You can also log on to the Cancer suPPort website which contains summaries of a lot of this: cancersupportinternational.com/
Also check out an independent website: NoMilk.com
Wishing you healing and strength and wellbeing,
Jenny
Dairy I’ve read Jane Plant’s book; in fact I read it before I knew I had breast cancer and I felt pretty smug because I’d been a vegan for several years. Another health hazard my diet was protecting me from!
Six months later I read it again, having been diagnosed with grade 3 breast cancer. This time I noticed that Prof Plant was undergoing a course of chemotherapy at the time she gave up dairy and her tumour shrank and disappeared. I’d somehow overlooked that before - we see what we want to see…
Jenny I agree with what you say about milk;it’s meant to turn a 200lb calf into a 2000lb cow in two years, and it does a very good job. It’s meant for a digestive system with four stomachs. It is not meant for the human digestive system. No other mammals drink milk after they’re weaned, much less the milk of another species. Our bodies stop producing the enzymes that break down milk properly at about the age of three, which is why so many people have milk allergies. I’m convinced milk is bad for us and dropping it from the diet can only be beneficial.
But is it the cause of breast cancer? If it was I guess I’d still have two breasts. I’m still vegan, but have no belief that this will prevent reccurrences.