Great post Mel, as it explains very well how immunotherapy is infact only the useing of the immune system to reconise and reject cancer, there is a lot of work being done into this area currently by cancer research,quite possibly also with the use of future virus vacines.
It realy isnt a case of a “strong” or “weak” immune system but a case of recogniton ,so realy any theory about the boosting of the immune system with either diet or suppliements is irrevelent as cancer cells are only just the patient’s own cells that are growing, dividing and spreading without control.
Very good point,i suspect immunotherapy will be the next major breakthrough in cancer research in the future treatment/preventing of cancer for many people.
Hi all,
If any of you would like to listen to some very informative Lectures from The Sloan Kettering Cancer Center which cherryorchard has kindly posted on another thread re all aspects of BC and also very importantly information on vitamins and nutrition,boosting the immune system ect which you can find about 12mins from the end of the Questions and Answers Lecture, it is certainly well worth listening too if anyone is interested.
Sloan Kettering also has a comprehensive A-Z Database of Herbs, Botanicals,Green Tea,Flazseed,Fish Oils & all other Products ect for evidenced based info ,also any possible warnings regarding any contridictions for those of us still undergoing all the many different Cancer treatments.
Also if your interested in Drug Discoveries/Research ect you can listen to some more very good and informative lectures from the Winship Cancer Institute at CancerQuest for more information .
I think the point of the article is that you can try and boost the immune system with diet and supplements as much as you like and it won’t make any difference, because the immune system does not recognise cancer as an intruder.
Having said that the article does acknowledge that immunotherapy is a very important research area - but the type of immunotherapy that involves biological/genetic manipulation of the immune system so that it does recognise cancer.
Hi Lemongrove,
What i found very interesting and also somewhat concerning from the Sloan Kettering Cancer Center Lecture re the stimulation/boosting of the immune system through dietry suppliements is that infact any stimulation of the immune system does the opposite of what you wanted it to do and has been shown to promote cancer so is bad for you. Sloan Ketterings advice is DO NOT use stimulating immune boosting therapies as it is just a Marketing Tool.
Re Vitamins, Larry Norton also stresses in the Lecture that there is NOT a bit of Science/Hard Science evidence on individual foods for helping to decrease cancer, NO Vitamins (with the exception of Vitamin D) help in fighting Cancer and a lot of vitamins was also found to do the opposite and infact promote Cancer.
I take supplements on the advice of the penny brohm centre in bristol that suggests a vit and mineral, antioxidents, vit c and a fish oil. Also take acidophilus daily. I am happy with this, all the anticancer research I’ve read corresponds with this. I think you can read what you like into any statistics and ultimately it’s about what suits each and every person. I’m sick of all this supplement, dairy and anything else bashing. viva la difference!!
Larry Norton is misinformed or out of date. As just one example, flax seeds have a proven ability to reduce breast cancer tumour activity and aggressiveness. This was proven by an intervention study, biopsying primary tumours of post-menopausal women, before and after a month of eating flax seeds every day. There are other studies, particularly with prostate cancer, showing anti-cancer effects of individual foods.
yes there has been more research on flaxseed but with conflicting results as there is in most research.People are only putting on here what they find so I don’t see any need to get defensive.Each to their own and all have a right to give a view
“Two human studies found that increased serum levels of flaxseed lignans reduce breast cancer risk, two had no effect, and one both increased and decreased risk depending on the level of intake. In the same systematic literature review, consumption of flaxseed lignans reduced breast cancer risk in three studies, had no effect in three studies, and only reduced post-menopausal breast cancer risk in one study.”
Hi Ladies,
Sloan Kettering Cancer Center is the 2nd leading cancer center in the US so i think it unlikely that the information from them is misinformed or out of date , Larry Norton is the Deputy Physician-in-Chief for Breast Cancer Programs at Sloan Kettering so for me (personaly) i would be inclined to base my decisions from them/him rather than my own restricted research.
Re Flaxseed - Slone Kettering has a section on Flaxseed in their A-Z of herbs/suppliements ect, in the info for Flaxseed especialy re any “warnings” they say “flaxseed has phytoestrogenic effects, patients with estrogen receptor positive (ER+) type of breast cancer should use flaxseed with caution.”
I think people have to make their own decisions on all the info available.
People must make their own choice as to whether or not they feel comfortable taking certain supplements.
Sloan Kettering say that people with ER+ cancer should use flaxseed with caution. I suspect this satement is made because the absolute benefits of flaxseed are as yet unproven. The study results so far have been mixed. They don’t say you shouldn’t use it, just be aware that their maybe downsides to its use with ER+ cancer.
“This was proven by an intervention study, biopsying primary tumours of post-menopausal women, before and after a month of eating flax seeds every day”.
Finty, could you find a link to this study please. I have some grave misgivings about a study that denied post menopausal women with primary BC treatment while they fed them flaxseed for a month. I for one would not have agreed to it. I think very few would.
Finty, I’m not familiar with research on flax seed. Does the research say that flax seed triggers the immune system to fight cancer cells, or does it work in another way - by reducing inflammation maybe.
Leadie, I know you are trying to follow the alternative route, and I totally respect your choice. All I would say is try and look at all the evidence. I don’t want to knock the Penny Brohn Centre, but they do advocate some fairly radical stuff. When I went there, we were given a talk by their GP, who said things like the immune system is continually fighting cancer (which is untrue); that the immune system can be triggered through dietary and lifestyle changes to fight cancer (which is unproven); that meditation and visualisation techniques can alter gene expression (which is unproven). Of course, there is nothing wrong with making healthy lifestyle changes, but if you take such ideas to their ultimate conclusion, there is no need for orthodox medicine. In other words, the conclusion is, why go through chemotherapy/radiotherapy, when you can trigger your own immune system to fight cancer with diet etc?.
As I have said before, I think diet is important, and I have no objection to complimentary medicine, but I think the alternative side is dangerous, because it encourages people to abandon conventional medicine.
A brief summary - in the month or so between initial primary diagnosis by biopsy, and surgery to remove the tumour, the group of women were given a daily flax seed muffin and the control group were given a muffin minus the flax seeds. The tumours were biopsied again after removal, and compared with the previous one. They found the tumour activity reduced, spontaneous cancer cell death increased (both by over 30% from memory), and a marker of aggressiveness (HER)reduced by over 70%.
Lemongrove - no, I don’t think it has anything at all to do with the immune system. There are many positive studies on flax seeds on numerous types of cancer, and it seems to be a direct effect on the cancer cells. Flax seeds are the highest source of phyto-oestrogens of any food - so I’m sure that has a lot to do with it, although interestingly in the study above the effect held across all hormone status types.
Linda - perhaps Larry Stone has not read the trial I have linked to. It is an obscure one that I found after dredging through databases - I haven’t seen it linked anywhere else on cancer websites, so it’s quite likely that he is completely unaware of it, however exalted his position at SK. The evidence is unequivocal - it isn’t an observation study subject to error - it was biopsied human breast tumour tissue with a control group - so there simply isn’t any area of doubt - the flax seeds reduced cancer activity. And this isn’t the only study with the only food - there are more. But this one is enough to make the point about Larry Stone’s incorrect assertion.
Thanks Finty. Funnily enough I’ve been putting golden linseed in my homemade bread, and the occasional bowl of porridge - is linseed the same as flax seed?
Yes - but you have to grind them up - eating the whole seeds is no good, they just go straight through you. Incidentally - the diet I follow isn’t anything to do with the immune system, I have no opinion on that at all - the foods that I try to eat daily have demonstrated some ability to directly disrupt cancer cells.
Mel - please - it just isn’t necessary to keep making these remarks.
Finty, funnily enough I used to feed linseed to a horse I owned a few years ago, when he became arthritic, because it has great anti-inflammatory qualities. It’s actually quite an old fashioned remedy, but is excellent. The only thing is that with the unprocessed linseed you had to boil it up for quite a long time to get the outer husk to crack open, and then it produced a horrible jelly like substance - but horses absolutely love it.
I’ve heard something about cancer being an inflammatory disease, so maybe it works at that level.
With all respect I am only saying it as I see it.and you know what I am not going to apologize for it. Please don’t tell me to stop remarking on things.Why is it ok for some to say what they like but not others?.Maybe some need to look back over their posts and then come back and tell me to stop remarking.
Anyway that’s my last comment.Sorry to of taken this way off track.
Can’t be doing with this anymore.
Can I respectfully remind everyone of our user guideline point 2 which everyone using this forum has signed up to:
Celebrate difference and disagree respectfully
A wide range of people with very different experiences use the forum. Differences and debate are very welcome, but this is no place for personal attacks. Please make your points politely and respectfully. Equally, be prepared for people to disagree with you and try not to take it as a personal attack when it is not meant that way.
A couple of tips suggested by forum users:
“Think before you submit” – if you disagree with a post, think it over before you post your response. Try drafting it first, then read it over to make sure what you’re saying is clear and respectful.
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I grind my flax seed too in a coffee grinder & put it on my musli each day re the sogginess I make sure it goes on the very top so not to come into contact with the milk & eat that bit first lol.
Hi Lemongrove I too seen it being an inflamitory desease mainly in all the books ive read on the subject
