Dear All,
Please can I remind you all of our community guidelines, especially the following :
These guidelines aim to keep the Breast Cancer Care forum a friendly, welcoming, supportive space for people affected by breast cancer.
- Be kind to each other.
Many people using the forum are going through difficult times. A few words of kindness can go a long way. Be especially nice to new posters – it can be very nerve-wracking to post on the forum for the first time.
Give each other the benefit of the doubt: it can be very easy to misinterpret other people’s comments, especially when read or written in haste. Sarcasm and humour are particularly easy to misunderstand.
Please don’t post comments just to annoy or inflame other users.
- Celebrate difference and disagree respectfully
A wide range of people with very different experiences use the forum. Differences and debate are very welcome, but this is no place for personal attacks. Please make your points politely and respectfully. Equally, be prepared for people to disagree with you and try not to take it as a personal attack when it is not meant that way.
A couple of tips suggested by forum users:
- “Think before you submit” – if you disagree with a post, think it over before you post your response. Try drafting it first, then read it over to make sure what you’re saying is clear and respectful.
- “Attack the post not the poster” – that is, disagree with the points made, but don’t be rude about the person making the point.
Best wishes
Janet
BCC Facilitator
“Equally, be prepared for people to disagree with you and try not to take it as a personal attack when it is not meant that way.”
Thank you Janet.
Are BCC saying that anyone can come on the forum and recruit for political demonstrations? Or are BCC going to pick and choose which political views to allow? Discussion about the best reforms for the NHS are one thing but recruitment to political campaigning is not right on a charity website that is supported and paid for by people of all political persuasions.
Hi No1Mummy. I Just want to say that BCC are not promoting any political view-point, or taking sides. The protest is in defence of the NHS, which is of interest to many people on this site. Obviously if others feel the Governments health reforms are a good thing, then I’m sure BCC would be more than happy for those views to be expressed (and if anyone wanted to organise a rally in support of the health reforms I’m sure there would be no problem about mentioning it on this forum). Secondly, the protest will be a cross party event, so there is no question of BCC allowing party politics…
Hi,
Msmolly did a good post on another thread (march to save the NHS)re the health service and NON PARTY POLITICAL action in support of the NHS.
There is a link to sign the petition (which is run by the people who organised the keep our forests petition)and is for all us ordinary folk of whatever political persuasion (or none) who just don’t want to see the NHS changed too much too quickly.
Here’s the link for those interested/worried
38degrees.org.uk/
Julie
No1Mummy - if you read further back up this thread you will be able to read what the BCC decision is on this issue.
In a nutshell they will not allow what you are claiming.
People are not morons - they can make up their own minds about what they choose to read and participate in. The idea that anyone is being “recruited” is simply not true.
This is most certainly not a non-political demonstration!
The Coalition of Resistance define themselves as “A coalition of groups fighting cuts and privatisation”. Their founding statement describes their purpose as “a broad movement of active resistance to the Con-Dem government’s budget intentions”. The signatories to the founding statement are hard left campaigners who, in their words, want to campaign for a radical alternative to cuts (even though the main parties all agree that cuts are necessary). They applaud and want to follow “the level of determination shown by trade unionists and social movements in Greece in Greece and other European countries” - no thanks - in Greece, policemen were murdered, businesses bombed and there was widespread rioting, destruction and looting up and down the country.
The founding statement is written by Tony Benn (Labour MP who most of his own party find too left wing). The other founding members include only three similarly hard-left MPs - they don’t even have broad-based support from those democratically elected to parliament.
Their founding statement which lists the supporters is here: guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/04/time-to-organise-resistance-now - it is based around various socialist/hard left campaigners that most people with mainstream political views (whether Con, Labour or Lib-Dem) really wouldn’t want to be connected with.
Given its charitable status, BCC involvement with allowing recruitment for political rallies is another issue - have to get kids off to school now so will comment on that later.
For the sake of some balance here are some of the other signatories.
John Hendy - QC barrister
Neil Faulkner - historian and archaeologist
Andrew Burgin - archivist
Nick Broomfield - documentary film maker
Kity Fitzgreald - poet
Nina Power - University lecturer
Caroline Lucas - Green Party
Francis Beckett - writer
James Meadway - economist
Granville Williams - musician.
Other opponents of Lansley’s Bill -
The Royal College of GPs
The Royal Colege of Nursing
The British Medical Association.
Are people seriously suggesting that these three organisations are hotbeds of lefty extremism?
Even the Financial Times are now saying that Lansley should ditch the Bill!
This is not party political.
Why can’t we discuss the issues surrounding the Bill itself?
I think it’s worth saying that opposing a particular bill does not necessarily mean opposing the political parties in power.
I’ve signed the petition on the other thread, but I wouldn’t attend the rally. I think the very rosy picture the Coalition of Resistance paints about the NHS in the Blair years does suggest some bias to me.
I do think we should be extremely concerned about our NHS. It is the speed and lack of meaningful consultation that alarms me about the proposals. They need the backing of major organisations such as the Royal College of Nursing, British Medical Assocation for any changes to be implemented well. Those organisations will want to feel their input has not only been ‘listened’ to but that changes have been made to proposed reforms accordingly in key areas if not all. Elinda x
Such radical changes need at the very least to be piloted before being rolled out across the country.
The Royal College of GPs, Royal College of Nursing and the BMA are NOT members of the Coalition of Resistance which is the particular protest march/campaign that was being recruited for.
There is a notable lack of mainstream politicians in the Coalition of Resistance.
To use your phrase “hotbeds of left extremism” perhaps look at some of the other founding members of the Coalition of Resistance - for example, Alf Filer (Socialist Resistance) and Lee Jasper (of BARAC - Black Activists Rise Against Cuts).
Incidentally, the bill is now on hold to allow for further consultation and expected changes to the bill because of input from respected groups such as the Royal College of GPs, BMA etc - I would personally far rather place my support with this sort of political campaigning by those who really are at the coalface than with a movement that is planning disruptive and costly protests along the lines of what has happened in Greece.
For info - alot of the changes proposed in NHS funding are not “new” as the political bods make out. Many of these “changes” have already been rolled out enabling GPs in some areas to have more responsibility with funding arrangements and it’s taken alot of support for this to work with GPs who wanted it to work… plus lots of problems emerged. Many of the ideas have been “piloted” - what concerns me is the the government does not let us know this. Why??? The Royal Colleges do know what’s happening and that’s why they are concerned.
I am confused as to what it is people want or don’t want.
One minute it is a blanket ban on all things even vaguely “political” and then it is ok but only if it is campaigning of a variety which some people deem permissable.
Mainstream politicians are all subject to the powers of their relative Whips on this issue so (aside from the Greens) you wouldn’t expect to find sitting MPs involved in a grassroots protest.
It also needs to be remembered that the “mainstream” supported apartheid and opposed votes for women and criminalised homosexuality so I really don’t value their opinion much.
BARAC is not a left wing organisation. It is an umbrella protest body for people of afro-caribbean origin. Lee Jasper was a Senior Race Equality Policy adviser. Black women have a much worse prognosis with BC than white women. Given that unpalatable truth I think BARAC’s concerns about NHS cuts are totally valid don’t you?
FrancesW - exactly.
I don’t think we should stop discussing or posting on things like this. At the same time I do think it’s okay to point out bias (which is different from saying for example that the Coalition of Resistance is entirely left wing).
Yes, Lee Jasper WAS a senior race equality policy adviser until this happened, as reported by the BBC: bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2008/03/11/tim_donovan_jasper_feature.shtml
Lee Jasper was the victim of a campaign which was started by the Evening Standard.
The Met Police were invited to investigate by Jasper himself who was determined to clear his name. After a lengthy investigation no charges were brought.
A further investigation in 2008 helmed by Boris Johnson’s mayoral office also found that Jasper acted perfectly within his remit.
Then in 2009 a further investigation by DLAPiper and the LDA also found that he was not guilty of anything fraudulent.
All of this information is freely available on the internet.
The determination to discredit anyone opposing these NHS cuts is most unpleasant. Why can’t the facts of the Bill itself be dealt with?
Hi everyone
Please bear in mind the community guidelines when posting, specifically this one:
“Publishing statements which damage others’ reputations could leave both the forum user who posted the statement, and Breast Cancer Care, vulnerable to legal action under libel law.”
As I said earlier, as an organisation, we do sometimes use the forum to let people know about the campaigns we’re involved in and forum members do get involved in health/cancer-related campaigning and are often interested in finding out about such campaigns. We wouldn’t allow the forum to be used by people who are not affected by breast cancer purely to promote their campaigns (and we wouldn’t be keen on anyone who just joined the forum to push a particular agenda/campaign).
However, posts about relevant campaigns, made by people who are members of the Breast Cancer Care forums, are fine by us - as long as the discussion is conducted respectfully and politely.
Politics can be a delicate area so it is important that discussions are conducted respectfully and that you refrain from making personal comments about other forum members, or anyone else.
Many thanks
Leah
I can’t believe people are questioning the right for anybody on the forum to post about about political issues or the right to know about a protest march. As far as I know, we still have the democratic right to march, and singling any body out because they have political views that differ from one’s own is clearly not acceptable.
Proposed NHS changes will affect all of us- waiting times are already getting longer and others are reporting changes to services. Perhaps we could try to stick to the important issues.
Nicky
No1Mummy, what you say is incorrect. The Coalition of resistance is not a far left organisation that is unrepresentative of mainstream views. It has members of many political viewpoints, and anyone of any political persuasion can belong. Yes the people you have picked out are left wing, but not all of them are, and they have thousands of members. Additionally, the protest will take place at University College Hospital, and there will be many doctors and nurses - so please there are many decent people involved. Please also note, this is not an anti-government protest, it is an anti-health reform protest.
oh for gods sake people if you dont like what you read dont read it any further, its like moaning about the t.v. it has an off switch.