Progesterone instead of Tamoxifen

Progesterone instead of Tamoxifen

Progesterone instead of Tamoxifen Dear All,

Have just about finished reading Dr Lee’s book about natural progesterone. I am very tempted to go down the route of using natural progesterone instead of tamoxifen, but obviously its a big, and important decision. The reasons so much of the book rings true to me is that I have diagnosed PCOS (because it was related to 5 early miscarriages) and it has always seemed logical to assume that the hormone imbalances related to PCOS and miscarriage are linked in some way to the fact that my BC is about as ER+ve as you can get. I am also worried because apparently having PCOS greatly increases the risk of endometrial cancer which is exactly what tamoxifen does.

I am interested to hear other’s experiences an whether anyone has gone down this route. Also would like to know how the medical professional has reacted to anyone wanting to discuss this as an alternative line of treatment to tamoxifen.

TIA

Wynthorpe

PS Hope I’ve posted this in the right place but I figure that use of natural progesterone may be a “hot topic” and would welcome starting any thread that discussed the pro’s and con’s.

Progesterone Dr Susan Love writes about this in her book and the impression I get is that she doesn’t feel that there’s enough evidence to conclusively say whether or not natural progesterone is safe for women who’ve had breast cancer.

Personally, I think that there’s a lot still to be discovered about progesterone and the breast and it’s interesting that PR status is a factor used in determining hormone therapy for breast cancer.

There’s no way I’d consider using natural progesterone instead of Tamoxifen as I just don’t want to expose myself to hormones that aren’t of my own making. But I don’t have horrible side effects with Tamoxifen and nor have I had PCOS so if I had, I might have a completely different opinion.

I think if you want to go ahead with it, it’s important to discuss it thoroughly with an expert doctor.

best wishes

Daphne

— Hi Wynne and Daphne — I’m not too bright as you have probably already picked up, so please forgive me if this posting is either irrelevant or just plain stupid.

I get confused when people talk about progesterone and testosterone and despite reading differing definitions have been thinking about this in relation to the fact that testosterone patches on er+ patients give awful MALE based side effects and so I thought about progesterone (in relation to libido and loss of it on Arimidex etc.). Or would this not affect this problem, or would it have even more or the same adverse effects?

Also, because I struggle to get answers from my hospital - can you tell me where on my pathology report it would tell me if I am pr+ or pr- please? in the top column it just says Oestrogen and then a number but there is no mention of pr. Does that mean the test was not done or does it come up in the writing under another medical term?

I know the answer would be ASK THE HOSPITAL but to be quite honest it would not guarantee me being given an answer, or that any answers would be necessarily the correct one.

Love Joy xxx

Hi Joy If you haven’t got PR status on your pathology report, it sounds as though you might not have been tested. I’ll run through what I was tested for on my path report. I’m aware that by doing that it may expose some consistencies between what people are tested for in different parts of the country. My report is dated December 2003. It’s possible that other tests may be routinely done now that weren’t done then.

This is what my path report shows:

ps2 positive staining 65%
ER fairly strong positive staining H score 210
PR strong positive staining H score 270
C-erb B2 negative staining
Bc1-2 Fairly strong positive staining

C-erb B2 is what HER2 is called in Europe.

ps2 is a protein which can be expressed in oestogen receptive tumours - it can also be found in prostate tumours.

Bc1-2 - The BC1-2 protein plays a role in the regulation of programmed cell death, overriding apoptosis. Over-expression of it is connected with hormone receptive tumours.

All these are biomarkers which help doctors decide what treatment is best for each patient and they are also prognostic indicators.

I can’t answer your questions on progesterone & testosterone. If You could do with talking to an endocrinologist about that. You could try asking for a referral to one. I know someone whose onc. referred her to one though this was done privately, but there’s no harm in asking.

Daphne x

— hI dAPHNE — Thanks for that.

It looks like I may not have been tested … however when I asked for the HER test to be done I DID mention my PR status did not seem to be known and could they let me know. I have only just got my HER result (nine months down the line and a part of me not sure they have told me it is minus when they don’t really know - gut feeling they have lost whatever test is taken from). Again no mention of PR status.

My path report just says ERH Score 200 Range 0-300
ER % cells positive 100 Oestrogen receptor positive Range 0-100

I will have to be a nuisance again by the looks of it. They are quite abrupt with me now when I walk in… questions are not overly welcomed.

Thank you again. Joy xxx

Use of natural progesterone Hello Wynthorpe - have you read both of Dr Lee’s books, including the one about Breast Cancer and What Your Doctor May Not Tell You? A valuable book. My GP thinks he talks a lot of sense. However, you may not get the same response from your oncologist!

One thing though - please always ask questions. It is not fair to expect a person to make big important decisions which affect survival and quality of life without knowing the score. You can only make an informed decision if you are fully informed.

There are doctors in the UK who are experienced in the use of natural progesterone - in another thread, I posted the address of an organisation in the UK who can put you in touch with such a doctor. The consultation will most likely be private though. A thorough search on Google might supply you with the data.

I read somewhere that natural progesterone used to be used in cancer treatment years ago, before the advent of chemotherapy. This might be worth investigating. Artificial forms are used these days, but as a last resort. As artificial forms are thought by some doctors to be responsible for some breast cancer, you might want to insist on natural.

My daughter had difficulty conceiving, and tests showed her prog. levels were abnormally low. However, after 3 months of minimal use of natural progesterone she became pregnant and we now have a lovely grandchild to show for it. This has saved her having Clomid.

Natutal progesterone can be purchased from the USA, at kevala health. Their site is very informative, and they are happy to provide as much assistance as they can. Do take informed medical advice though.

It is worth knowing that Prof Ian Fentiman did trials years ago, at Guys Hospital, and showed that removing tumours when natural prog. levels were high, improved survival rates by an enormous percentage. At Guys, I am informed that breast surgery is timed to coincide with this part of a woman’s cycle. Prof Fentiman also found that use of natural progesterone beforehand enhanced survival even more. This protocol should be in use at all cancer hospitals.

Thanks DarkLady . . . . . . . . there is some really important information there. What worries me is that I will go to my oncologist and discuss this and he will simply dismiss it out of hand. I feel that I need to be aware of as much info as possible before I can discuss it with him. I would be very interested to be put in touch with this organisation that you mention. Is there any chance that you could post some contact details please?

TIA

Wynthorpe