Returning to a sex life after recon

Hi all. I am hoping you can all help me with a major dilemma in my marriage at present.

Jan 07 dx, mx, chemo, rads etc.
May 11th 2009 Ld recon, discharged last Saturday.

Problem i have which i so desperately hope you will be able to help me with is my husband.I am 53, he is 61. Married 30yrs.Since dx of bc sex drive has never returned even after trying every lubricant on the market.But got by as obviously marriage is a partnership where you look after each others needs.
Now this morning after 8 days since recon with 15 inch scar across my back which is sore, husband wants needs fulfilling. I again and still have no sex drive so nothing happens.

My ultimate question is Has anyone got their sex drive back eventually following all described above and if so how long did it take?
Is there a time period post recon where i will be able to fulfil his needs again or if it’s dead is it past resuscitation?

Actually told him this morning to go and find someone else to fulfil that part of our marriage as i’m just fed up of being asked for something i do not have.

Hi,
I think it is early days and maybe the morning erection is easy for a bloke, but for me it has always been the worst time of the day!
Maybe cook a nice dinner bottle of wine and then bingo ‘The Mounty gets her man.’ Sorry not making light of it I hope you know what I mean.
When we have gone through all the treatments I think our sex drive is the one that suffers most. Your husband was most likely thinking it would make you feel confident and loved. They can’t win can they? If they want us its too soon and if they don’t show any sexual desire for us we presume they have gone off us.
This is just a blip you will work it out. Wishing you lots of luck and on a positive how nice that sex with you was the first thing on his mind. In our house the only crumpet in the morning is in the toaster.
Love Debsxxx

I was dx in Oct 07 havent had sex since …my husband cant deal with my body and I cant deal with him not dealing with my body …end of .

Similar to Maz, but also relate to Debs’ comments. It is very early days. Why can’t men communicate, if he asked you if you wanted sex, you could say not yet but encourage him to continue showing an interest and keep asking. But what I’ve just said rarely happens, we speak different languages.

I was talking to my OH today about a friend (who has had BC and a mast but is really fit and well and aged 80yrs so resigned that she has already lived a long and healthy life)Her husband has been ill and when I told OH this he said he was stressed. I said no he’s not, it’s a contagious illness not linked to stress, and anyway why would he be stressed? He replied that his wife has had cancer!!! I realised this was my opportunity to ask him, my OH if he felt stressed and was this his way of telling me, he then tried to pick a fight and got really arsey with me.

So again, I can’t win. Is he stressed? I don’t know. He doesn’t say. I’m pretty sure he’s frustrated as he used to have a sex drive, and now I have less than zero, no desire at all with anyone, not even Russel Crow etc!

For me it is a triple edged sword, drugs lower labido, mastectomy lowers self confidence ( I too hate my body shape) and 3, no lubrication so sex is painful. I too would like to not have sex ever again, would like the odd hug though and never get them, coz if I hug him, he thinks aye aye, were on! We sleep as far away as possible from each other in a standard size double bed!

Sorry I can’t help but at least you know you are not alone!

Irene

Oh my gosh how sad for all you ladies - this has just proved to me how lucky I am to have such an understanding hubby. Yes of course he is at times put off with the scar and lack of nipple but by talking about the issues having a mastectomy has raised and making a real effort on both sides to enjoy each other in order to resume our sex life we are doing ok. Yes we have had our bad patches but again, by sitting down and expressing both of our feelings we have worked through the difficulties. I have no libido what so ever but try not to refuse his advances every time as obviously he has needs and desires that need to be met and how wonderful he still wants me looking like I do. I do think that we need to make an extra effort by wearing sexy underwear and maybe keeping the top on unless he wants to remove it lol!
Please don’t drive your men away - if they are still around then they still love and desire you, so sit down and talk about the problems and maybe look into getting some counselling together.
Good luck
Clarabelle x

Hi ladies,

After following this thread I wondered if some of BCC’s publications may help you, so I have put for you below links to 2 of our publications. You can either download these directly or order a free copy to be posted out to you. Don’t forget the helpline staff are here for you and are well used to discussing this type of issue. I hope some, or all of this helps.

In it together:

breastcancercare.org.uk/server/show/nav.718/changeTemplate/PublicationDisplay/publicationId/15

Sexuality & intimacy:

breastcancercare.org.uk/server/show/nav.718/changeTemplate/PublicationDisplay/publicationId/20

Kind regards,
Jo, Facilitator

hi girls

I am not in a permanent relationship but like you have not had sex since the m-op. i have an ld recon but it has done nothing to improve my body image as it is poor cosmetically and the lack of nipple makes it feel asexual.Feeling unattractive does nothing to make me feel like a sexual being and I grieve for this every day. I think our lack of desire is very much rooted in the mind because even the mechanics of sex now - finding a painless position,messing around with lubricants and so on are bound to be off putting. But actually fancying sex with someone is something else. i still fancy men, would just be too embarrassed to get into a sexual situation. My overwhelming sense of shame when naked is a huge turn off!

Think that Clarabelle’s advice about not pushing your man away is very good if you see the whole package, including sex continuing. Being single and like this is very scary; the embarrassment of telling someone new, never letting a guy reach for the recon,being jealous of every normal woman I see and so on - clothed I am fine but it’s naked that is the killer for so many of us. Like Clarabelle maybe you will find a way through this because there is an established relationship and these men clearly want you for more than a quickie. Debs advice, if wine does not bring on your hot flushes and nausea from Tamox is good. I can’t think of a time when wine has not led to mischief! Mounties, Maz and Irene I wish you all the best and feel your pain.

Love

Jane x

I was diagnosed in July 07 and have had sex with my husband of 18 years about twice since then. My sex drive has come back - but his hasn’t at all. He seems to treat me like his grandmother - rather than his wife. My recon job is fantastic but I have gained about a stone and a half - my hair is not good - frizzy - but even when I try to dress nicely and get hair blow dried nothing has helped attract his interest. He seems so angry all the time. I tried talking to him about it a couple of days ago and he said that he found that I was extremely negative and aggressive which he didn’t find sexy. I find that completely weird - as I feel the opposite is true. He also said in what became rather a horrible conversation - ending up with him storming off because I had ruined his evening - that my breast cancer has basically ruined the whole family’s life and that I never talked about anything else and that even the kids were suffering from this and that he thought I desperately needed therapy to sort this out. I just feel so hurt and don’t even know where to start with all of this. I think he is angry with me for being ill - during which time he was the most loving, supportive partner you could wish for - but that he’s now just struggling with it all. I feel that I’m making huge progress and not thinking and talking about it all the time - but it is obviously something I think about a lot - though almost never with the children who I think are doing fine. He is rarely here when I’m with them so he has no clue. I have had several sessions with a cancer counsellor through macmillan which were brilliantly helpful - but I just don’t see that having lots of therapy which we can’t afford will make him view me differently. Sorry I am rambling - but I feel really stuck. Thanks for listening…

Hi Manou

I have posted a link to our publications order page where you will find a couple of booklets which may be of interest to you, just look under ‘Health and wellbeing’, there is one called ‘In it together’ and another ‘Sexuality, intimacy and breast cancer’, hope these help.

breastcancercare.org.uk/server/show/nav.718

Best wishes
Lucy

hi, i have had a mx and recon from stomach so although with clothes on look ok, (apart from the weight gain) i look a bit of a mess with no clothes on and was very sore for weeks. husband did initiate sex a bit early for me but i decided that the 1st time was never going to be great. it was great for him as i think he was relieved that everything appeared to be still working! i was very emotional about it but hubbie never noticed!! but since then things have returned to the old routine so i’m glad i went ahead and ‘got it over with’ as it were and not let it become a barrier between us. my hubbie prefers to act most of the time as if i never had any illness/ op as i suspect that’s his way of coping!

best wishes.

Well I would be happy to just get back to normal - but he is not interested at all and communicating doesn’t seem to work. It’s interesting to read others comments - and I suppose I am glad he didn’t hassle me at all about it while I was having treatment and sore from rads etc - but I’d just like things to go back to how they were. Now I’ve dared to mention it though which has made things even more highly charged. I did look at that leaflet briefly but it seemed mainly about people having lots of intimacy and partners who were completely up for it - rather than the opposite - but I’ll have another look so thank you for that.

sounds as if hubbie needs the counselling/ therapy! mine really only copes as long as i appear to be ok if i mention being tired or fed up his answer is to go see the doctor again! it makes me feel as if i cant ever speak about life as it is now as its never really going to be as it was before. eg had a bad day recently and got a little weepy in the car when as i dropped him off at his mates and he couldnt get out quick enough, his expression said everything he was horrified and didnt know how to cope with me! but hey ho, hubbies are just not very good at this sort of stuff just as well we have mates!!

I have found the BCC leaflets on the subject of sex of limited value. They are coy, euphemistic, and baulk at hard truths. Get that out of the way right at the start.

Sad about men who don’t communicate. They have feelings, have a right to their feelings, have a right to privacy if they want it, all that stuff, but why do they have such difficulty talking about sex to the one they do it with? And about other things. Do they not have responsibility to themselves and to us to communicate, as best they can, in an adult way about how things are with them, and between us? Do we not have a right to require that of them - I think one could let a person off too lightly from their responsibility to communicate as best they can with the person closest to them: even if it is to say something like, “I’m mixed up about it, hurt about it, and don’t want to talk about it just now” - to which I think one would have a right to reply to the effect: “okay; please will you review the situation with me in a few weeks time so I know where I am with you because I need to know what is going on.” I speak as one married to a man who seems to have no access to his inner life and I have to do it all for him, which is arduous, but if I didn’t do it there would be no conversation between us at all and what would the point of such a relationship be - especially since there’s no sex! the only point of our relationship at the moment is - pragmatic.

Personally I can’t do sex just to fulfil his needs, and he doesn’t want me to fake it. I do not consider sex a duty, or an act of charity; to me it is about communication, sharing, and has to be two-way. So for me that would appear to be that. But I want to want sex, and if my libido does not return then my treatment was a waste of time and I would rather I had just got sick and died, intact.

But remember that breast cancer treatment, including recon, is an appalling violation of our bodies, and I would think it natural to respond to that by wanting to reaffirm one’s privacy and right to deny access to our body for a time after treatment - quite a long time perhaps, and other people have to respect that, as we would them. If they are taking it personally, or have a problem with that, then could they not say, so we could explain? They can understand that we aren’t withholding sex - out of spite, or power, or whatever. Also that we are as distressed as they are at the loss and the damage to ourselves and our sexuality and recognize it as a loss to them also. Though personally if I never recover then the treatment was pointless - a treatment that makes you feel dead seems no better than being dead as far as I’m concerned. But - time, I think is needed.

Secondly, and this is where I think BCC and every other source I know of, fails on ‘sex after bc’ - I think sex is going to be disabled sex. I’m allowed to say that, if anyone is getting offended about it, because mastectomy makes me an amputee, my sexual machinery has been sabotaged by that operation, and that makes me disabled as far as I’m concerned, and any sex life I’m going to be able to have will be one adapted to this new and different and sexually handicapped body. It is sexually handicapped because breasts are part of sex, I would have thought obviously but perhaps not, and it is about looking and touching, they are erotic and erogenous - hence the advice to keep your upper body covered misses the point for me - and give pleasure to both parties, it is not just about him - and the damage to that part of the anatomy quite obviously disrupts both aspects, and in my view there are no substitutes, and the advice to concentrate on ‘other erogenous zones’ is whistling in the dark because basically, we have lost a very important part of the machinery. Or why are we having this conversation? I am just hoping that somehow I can salvage something from the wreckage, but at the moment the spark is gone completely, and this wreck just won’t go.

Re. ‘disability’ - I’m speaking for myself, and I have a right to say how I see myself, and I offer these thoughts for other people’s consideration. If anybody out there sees their own predicament differently, that is entirely your right, but don’t require me to see mine your way or stipulate the language I may or may not use about how I see myself - sorry but people get tetchy over the word ‘disabled’ but I uphold my right to use it. That being said, if you see it differently and think you can offer me something that might help me in my situation, then please say.

Well, I hope nobody takes offence here, and I apologize to anyone who has it is not meant; I really have thought a lot about sex (when you can’t do it that’s all that’s left!) because it is the subject closest to my heart and bc has wrecked me and I am devastated and I don’t want to be humoured or patronized about my loss, and I do want to talk straight about it but only because I believe that doing so gives our best hope, if hope there is, of recovery.

sno

Well I would call this thread returning to a sex life after mutilation as I think the reCON business is rather a red herring. I am not questioning that sex was resumed after removal of breast and then “suspended” for reCON and then couldn’t resume afterwards but I do believe that there are plenty of us out there for whom sex has not resumed at all. It is such a fanciful idea now that I don’t even find that I aspire to resume anymore because the switch has been turned off and it will not come on again.

As for meeting your man’s needs then sorry but if the needs are at that level only and they are desperate then they can pay for it elsewhere. I do feel guilty about “not providing” but the divide is so great and has been so protracted that my mind would just not engage again and I will not “provide” a body, what is now MY body, without a mind 100% in tune.

I’m in agreement with Snowwhite on this and I’m afraid BCC do not grasp the nettle. They know the problem because it has been, indeed has HAD to be, spelled out to them but they will not come above the parapet. Podcasts, leaflets, leaflets …

Sexual dysfunction, sexual disability is a direct result of my amputation. Lymphoedema could also be a direct result and but it would benefit from funding, sympathy, empathy, treatment, acknowledgment and so on - people would discuss it, people would be trained in how to help you live with it, avoid it, treat it and yet here we are. Are we the lepers of the BC world?

The “lie back and think of England” brigade are possibly lucky in being able to do just that, or knocking back a few glasses of wine and losing their new found inhibitions and shyness but you cannot turn to drink every time can you? Drink dims the senses, how I long for my senses to be dimmed and made less aware of my body. Covering up doesn’t work either because at some point during the “proceedings” you would normally discards clothers would you not? And when you discard them you have nothing there, nothing to show. Or perhaps you have the new mound? Lifeless, not sensate, immobile, unresponsive, a very poor second indeed and to me a sham, just a sham that has to be covered up out of sight. The human form is a thing of beauty - not now it isn’t. It is deformed.

I’m not out to offend anyone and I’m not saying my feelings on this topic are shared by anyone at all but they are real and no leaflets, no help lines are going to change that however well intended they may be. Of course this is just another thing on (or not on) the list of prices to pay/collateral damages sustained when jumping on the BC merry-go-round, when lured through the screening department doors, when deciding to proceed with treatment, or even having that decision made for you, that no one, NO ONE, will ever think to warn you about. I’ve got the damage, I’ve paid the price and it was a high price and I find I’m wondering - was it worth it? Was the price too high? I feel fairly dead physically so would I have been better to have a couple of good years and then accepted my fate? Don’t think that life was full of sex and nothing else, indeed not, but without it life is so terribly different, it is now something that “other people” do.

Reg.

I was so pleased to come across this thread you have written everything that I feel I had mast in oct 2007 and 2 attempts at recon since the latest being March 09 … I have not had sex in all this time …and i never will again my OH has never approached me or spoke about how could he possibly want me the way I look !! he has never seen my scars or naked since …I feel as you do …my sexual machinery has been taken from me how could i feel sexy looking how I look is this how I have to spend the rest of my life in a sexless marriage ??? whats the point of that ?
I am mutilated and I dont care what any one says that should be grateful I was lucky ? why when a really important part of my life has been taken from me !I look like an autopsy !and dont feel much more x

Seems that a nerve has been hit, good, time it was all aired.

Precisely. Exactly. Spot on.

Just want to say two things, both of which will probably offend someone, so if you don’t want to be offended look away now:

First, frankly I think it is self-delusion to think that by doing sex mechanically to please your husband then things have got ‘back to normal’. Would he really not know as well as you do that you are both shamming? Would it not be better to talk frankly about your loss, and your grief, and your difficulties - ‘you’ plural? - and your hopes to, in time, recover something of yourself and your life from the wreckage…but that, if he’s game, if there is enough in your relationship, you can move forward together into this unknown territory - but if he can’t hack it, at any time, he had better say. As you would for him.

Second, such life and sex as may be recovered from the wreckage - in my view, and I may be quite wrong here - is likely to be lesser, and different, and that is why I said ‘disabled sex’ - because I believe that some disabled people - blind people, wheelchair users, deaf people, amputees, you name it - are highly likely to have sexual difficulties because of their conditions, but that they can and do have a sex life, but it is different from the one I used to have before - and that now I am disabled I too have to try and work something out from where I am now - but at the moment I am still too traumatized by the whole thing even to engage in sex of any kind. But I do truly keep hoping that eventually I will manage something, and from here, with nothing, maybe, and I never thought I would hear myself say this, maybe disabled sex, so long as I can fully engage, would be good enough.

And now let me say something really controversial. Blind people can’t see. So they can’t see their partners, naked or clothed. They no doubt do a lot by touch, sound, etc. I think that is a great loss, I would or will find it a terrible loss (just to mention one) if I lose my sight. However, they manage. For an example. So that is the sort of thing I am saying - I think our loss is very very real, and I loathe the fact that BCC backs away from that truth - as you say, Reg, podcasts, leaflets - *&%^!!! - but also, if they acknowledged the kind of loss it is, they might then be able to offer some more constructive or useful advice. Though what is, is.

I do wonder if people who become disabled in other ways get patronized in this way. It is so sickening to be told by an able-bodied person to be content with sex in a camisole. It is so sickening to see diagrams of female genitalia on Page 1 (or near) of the helpful leaflet when it is lack of breast that is the issue. And to be told about fiddling about with vibrators. How in %&* is a vibrator going to compensate for lack of a breast? In effect this says: okay you still have an orifice so “sex is still possible” as it said in one of those helpful articles. Like I couldn’t work out that use could still be made of my body for the purpose of discharging male energy - but that isn’t what I call sex, that’s pretty close to rape. Makes you wonder about these people. Doctors are notoriously bad at dealing with sex, and it pleases me to think that when they’re at home that is precisely what they are doing with their biological partners.

Oh god I’ve done it again I seem to have said more than two things. Doesn’t take much to set me off. Don’t know where the brakes are. Oh well. I believe what I have said to be true (apart from the doctors, that’s just an insult because they insult me).

sno

Well said all. Just had a shower and noticed a huge bruise on the recon, i obviously knocked it and did not feel a thing, this makes me keenly feel my loss as it used to be such a source of pleasure. You are all right. the advice to just get over it and cover up mises the point about what good sex is about. I too wonder if I would not be better to have died intact - I wish I had never had this op and I can not bear this life without intimacy.

And those coy, silly leaflets - they really anger me. I want to be normal and I never will be again. I will never be as desirable again as I was before and the loss is like death and I wish I never had the op because I can not bear the consequences.

J x

Well this is great!I am so with you articulated ladies!! Manou68, your OH must be my OH twin! My OH is def angry, so am I, though I work really hard not to let it show, well not too often, and def not with the kids around. My OH often says insensitive and down right nasty things to me, but was sooo great when I was first diagnosed, so he def has ‘issues’ but won’t consider therapy.

I know he is frustrated sexually. I know this because I’ve worked it out. Not because he has told me coz he can’t communicate, even at a basic level. It was great to hear how Snowhite, Regina, Maz and Jane voiced their feelings regarding mutilation, and society’s apparent need to make us BC sufferers feel guilty for not putting on a show and helping them fulfil themselves. I agree, that is very close to rape. I have at times been made to feel I have to provide this dead and lifeless body to be used as a plaything, this is so wrong.

It is a form of abuse. BUT I know my husband would be sooo shocked to hear me say that, and he would never ever force me to do anything I didn’t want to. It has been society, the BCC leaflets and sugar sweet comments from ‘lucky’ indidviuals who have returned to ‘normal’. I will NEVER be normal again. My breasts were my main erongenous zone. Tamoxifen has made me fat and frigid. BC has made me uptight coz I never fully relax and feel 100% happy, thinking when/if it will spread and kill me sometime.

I wish I was single. As I have no desire to have sex, I don’t miss it and find the added pressure of living with a emotionally damaged OH who is angry and frustrated just makes a big part of my life very very sad. Sex isn’t everything, but humans, like apes need contact and sex used to be the only way I got proper skin to skin contact and now thats gone too.

I’ve said enough.

Irene

Hi Everyone,

I don’t know that I am in any way qualified to give advice but I feel very sad when I read comments like this because in most cases it seems to me that it is the woman who has labelled herself as mutilated or unattractive rather than her man.

There is no doubt that breast cancer treatment - surgery, chemotherapy, radiotherapy, hormone treatment - does nothing for libido. Nor does all the worry and tiredness. But I don’t believe that it will necessarily kill a sex life. What it does is put a lot more emphasis on romance and wooing. It’s as though rather than trying to get back to what everything was like just before the treatment you both have to go back to the early days of the relationship when a single smile from the other person was a big deal. It’s as though each person was saying “Even though this thing has happened I’m falling in love with you all over again.”

This all takes time and patience and trust if the issues of body image, pain, fear and vulnerability are to be dealt with.

I wish you all the best.

Sue