Can anyone help with a concern that has been bought to my attention regarding using Soya Milk. My tumour was oestrogen postitive and I was mindful of cutting back on dairy products, so thought (as did my BCN) that Soya would be a good subsitute. However whilst watching the BCC diet and exercise DVD I was worried to hear that soya can interfer with any hormone medication that you may be taking! I am on Arimidex. There does seem to be a division of opinion on diet anyway, my onocology dr said there was no proven evidence that cutting out dairy was beneficial but the likes of Jane Plant treats it as some kind of poison!
I know its a matter of personal choice but I need the facts to make an informed choice. Can anyone give me any guidance please and maybe explain exactly how soya affects the meds (is it because of the phyto osetrogens?)
Yes, I was led to believe it was because of the phyto-oestrogens. One of the breast care nurses mentioned it and then I read about it, too.
I think the problem is there have not been enough studies on soya or dairy and bc. So, I suppose it will be a matter of preference. I like milk and unless someone can show me evidence why I shouldn’t have it, I will carry on, because I feel the calcium intake is vital - especially as they think my Mum had osteoporosis. I may change to organic milk, though. I am going to research that, to see if it has fewer hormones than normal milk.
I tried soya and rice milk during a detox once, and I really didn’t like it. We have enough misery now and I think that doing away with all of our pleasures is not good for us. I know milk is not exactly a pleasure, but I do like a nice up of tea!
It is really confusing isn’t it? I have stopped dairy completely after reading both Jane Plant and David Servan Schrieben. I just felt if there was any possibility that dairy could have an effect on breast cancer I didn’t want to take the chance. I hated soya milk at first but 8 months down the line I have it on cereal, porridge and the very occasional soya latter. If I were going to have milk/dairy then I’d definitely go for organic.
The soya thing is also under researched. I’ve read to keep it to a minimum which I do anyway. As I’m also cutting down a lot on meat I do occasionally use tofu as well. The thing is quite a few things are phyto oestrogens.
I’m conscious of calcium so go for other things in my diet that are high in calcium. If you go to something like the vegan society website they list those. I may also get the Jane Plant book that covers this in more detail. I’ve read that countries like Japan that don’t use dairy also don’t have higher incidences of osteoporosis - so I wonder why dairy is so vigorously promoted as the option for calcium. Many people can’t take dairy products because they are lactose intolerant too.
I would love some more research on all of this but think it’s unlikely as it will be so controversial and probably won’t be a patent in it so not going to make anyone lots of money!
Hi Chris
There are lots of differing views on this issue. My beleif is that you should only make dietary changes that you are happy with, you are going through enough of a bad time. Make small and gradual changes rather than try to go on a radically different diet. I cannot stand Soya milk so I have switcehd to organic semi skimmed. Don’t know if you’ve read it but a good book is “The Breast Cancer Prevention & Recovery Diet” by Suzannah Olivier ISBN 978-0-14-028395-2 . Good luck, Jackie.
Hi Jackie
I was recommended that book by a dietician and agree it is very good.
I have made a few changes and have had to stop my self getting too obsessed with diet . I was already a vegetarian, so have not had to cut out red meat etc.but have cut down on dairy. I use rice milk to make smoothies and on my cereal and organic semi-skimmed in my (de-caff) tea ( rice milk doesn’t really work!).Calcium enriched rice milk is also available.
I have started buying organic products wherever possible.
Suzannah Olivier is all in favour of soya/phytoestrogens and so was the dietician I saw.She reckoned they have a protective effect like Tamoxifen. I am not sure, so am just having soya products in moderation.I really don’t like soya milk…!
Thanks girls for your comments. For the moment I have decided to continue with a small amount of soya on cereal (sweetenend!) and in the occasional cuppa. Or a soya yoghurt on the days I don’t have cereal. Still using small amounts of skimmed milk but will now look at the organic version as I am pretty sure Ann, that it doesn’t contain the large amount of hormones that ordinary milk does. I agree Jackie, that it is best to make small changes to your dietto begin with otherwise it seems too difficult to maintain and we start wanting the stuff that we are not supposed to eat.
I too have recently bought the Suzannah Olivier book from Amazon and found it very good. I am also now the proud owner of a juicer which I have been putting to good use.
I am due to start rad on 3 Nov and was told that it can kill off some of your red cells so to eat extra meat to combat the fatigue this can cause…another contradiction but at the end of the day we must go with what feels right for us as individuals.
Chris - Found this on an American site called ‘Nature’s answer to cancer’. I have no idea what the qualifications of the writer are but I can give you the link, if you want.
“Frequently Asked Questions
Q: If I have breast cancer, should I avoid eating soy?
A: Soy contains weak plant estrogens, so that’s why this is a controversial topic for those with estrogen-based cancer. The research is conflicting and that means you are going to continue to hear mixed messages about soy. In test tubes, genistein (an isoflavone found in soy beans) either stops cancer cells from growing or makes them grow. Animal studies don’t seem to offer consistent conclusions either. Some studies reveal that isoflavones can stop the growth of breast cancer cells by blocking receptor sites from circulating estradiol (the natural estrogen that promotes some breast cancers). Other studies have shown that genistein acts as an estrogen in normal breast tissues and may stimulate the growth of estrogen receptor positive breast cancer cells. I believe there is a place for moderate amounts of soy in the diet if you have an estrogen based cancer because they can play a protective role in staving off cancer cell growth. To explain my point, I need to you be creative and think that estrogens –plant and human—are just like cruise ships. These cruise ships may vary a bit in structure but they all fit into the same port space. And that port space is the estrogen receptor site on your cell. If you eat soy, the soy ships will cruise right into your cell port and block the way so the more potent estrogen ships that have a tendency to activate the growth of breast cancer cells can’t get in. In essence, the smaller ships are blocking the way so the bigger ships can’t get in. If you are trying to prevent a recurrence of breast or gynecological cancer, the goal would be to keep cruise ship traffic to a minimum–as higher levels of circulating estrogen (lots of cruise ships) may spur on the growth of breast cancer cells. That theory of estrogen activation is confirmed by several in vitro and animal studies. Indeed, highly concentrated sources of soy have shown to spur breast cancer cell growth. Still, you’d think you’d want some of those ports filled up by weaker ships so the big, nasty ships don’t get in. And soy does contain other compounds that offer cancer-fighting properties. That is why the American and Canadian Dietetic Associations recommendation for women who have been diagnosed with breast cancer is to eat 1-2 servings of soy foods per week – to allow for small amounts of soy (30 mg per food serving) without inundating the system with too much estrogen activity. Controlling the cruise ships. The key word in this recommendation is soy food, such as soy milk, tofu, tempeh, soy nuts, etc. You will want to avoid high levels of isoflavones found in concentrated sources of soy (listed on labels as isolated soy protein) often found in smoothies, health shake mixes, dietary supplements for menopause and energy bars.”
Not sure if this helps! Hope your knee is not too painful.
I’m lactose intolerant and was concerned when I heard about soya as I’m oestrogen positive. I discussed it with my Onc and BCN and they advised me to review the studies and make my mind up as voting was still out on this one. My Onc personally felt moderation and not too excess would be the answer. In Canada a study says that the benefits far outweigh any disadvantages, America goes the other way, the French say ok in moderation (3-4 servings a week). The dietician at the Hospital also looked into it for me and she came back the same - 3 - 4 normal servings a week. That’s the way I’ve gone… I have cereal once a week with soya, 2 large coffees (decaf) a week and 1 serving in either sauce with something like fish or veg or rice pudding.
I put fruit juice on my cereal, which means I can save the dairy/soya for other things. I actually prefer it with fruit juice so that is no hardship for me.
This is a really interesting thread. I use a little soy every day such as soyal milk on muesli or occasionally I make a chocolate mousse with silken tofu. I’ve tried fruit juice on cereal and muesli but I just can’t get on with it - it tastes too strong and acid to me. I may try experimenting with making home made nut milk which is just blended crushed nuts and water - think that would be good on cereal. I don’t like the shop variety of nut milk as it tastes too sweet and odd.
Chris - the red cell thing is interesting. I have massively reduced my meat intake since being diagnosed with cancer to only organic chicken once or at most twice a week. All through my 8 sessions of chemo my red cells have stayed at the high end of normal even though my white cells plummeted. Another woman I met in the unit had to have a blood transfusion after less chemo. I think it’s probably highly individual. There are other ways to boost iron levels apart from meat - some dark chocolate taken with orange juice (vit c needed), I think some dried fruits are good too.
Our local Morrison sells chocolate flavoured oatmilk which is absolutely delicious and just as tasty as normal milk - its trade name is oatly and it is made by Wassan international ltd. It is long life so you can keep it in the cupboard and only 55 calories per 100ml. Well worth a try.
You can get plain Oatley as well. It is really nice on cereal and is available in most big supermarkets.
Has anyone found a non-dairy way of making “cheese” sauce? I tried some powder in a tub that was meant to make a cheese sauce substitute, but it was watery, flavourless and absolutley vile!
Sorry - ‘cheese sauce’ is something I am trying to work on, so I will let you know if I get any good results! I have always loved my cheese and thought it would be the hardest thing to give up but I am not missing it as much as I thought.
The dairy/soya debate seems to go on…so much divided opinion. As with lots of the dietary advice around, I am trying not to be obsessive, and have most things in moderation. Milk (organic) is usually reserved for a Barleycup drink at night, and I am happy with using soya milk, Oatley and rice milk for drinks and cereals. I have soya products most days (am vegetarian).
There seem to be so many contradictions on so many food and supplement products… I am just trying to tread a middle path…
Just found this thread and glad I did. I have used soya milk for years. I have cereal everyday and several cups of redbush tea or barleycup(coffee substitue) everyday so I reckon I can ge tthrough a pint of sya milk a day.
Now I’m confused as to what to do. My tumour was e+ and i’ve started on Tamoxifen. Am going to ask BCN this week when I see her.
I hate rice like and am not keen on nut milks but may try them again
meant to say I stopped using dairy milk years ago because of cattarh. Now I loath the taste of dairy milk in drinks and over cereal.
was going to say I’d go back to smoothies for breakfast but I make them with soya yogurt!! oh heck!??
My onc advised me to avoid high amounts of phyto oetrogen so I rarely consume soya. I must admit I don’t find this difficult- soya milk is vile and tofu tastes like rubber. I’ve been a vegetarian for 26 years and ate tons of soya prior to my BC diagnosis. Plus I ate mostly organic produce too. I still ended up with 2 Grade 2 tumours and DCIS so I am not convinved of soya’s so called protective affects at all. The argument about Japanese/Chinese women getting lower levels of BC is a weak one. There is massive under reporting of many things (including BC) in China which still cannot be classed as an “open” country. And having associated with a number of Japanese families who settled in my home area for work reasons, I don’t recall any of them suddenly abandoning their traditional diet for a completely Westernised one. There is a joint study by Japanese and American researchers that found that the reason Japanese women have lower levels of BC is because they naturally have lower levels of hormone receptors- bearing in mind that in the West, 80% of BCs are hormone +tive. Japan has high rates of bowel cancer due to certain aspects of their diet so it seems it’s not totally healthy. I tend to take any of the research I read with a pinch of salt as every piece will have it’s own bias depending on who is funding it, what the motivation is (e.g “proving” the researcher’s own hypothesis). As for the myriad number of books claiming to have THE anti cancer diet, the one thing they all have in common is that the authors all make a lot of money out of people like us.
Geraldine
Hi
I think Geraldine makes a very good point. I used to try to avoid all sorts of fad diet/health/self help books believing that the main benefit to be had was profits to the author, and I didn’t want to contribute, but since having BC I have become much more of a sucker! I read Jane Plant’s YLIYH rather early on and have instituted all the rigorous elements - no dairy, no meat, no white sugar, no alcohol, no coffee, lots of veg, supplements, green tea etc etc. My stomach rumbles alarmingly and I’m not actually sure that I feel any different!! And I didn’t feel bad about my diet before diagnosis with BC because I had been eating mostly home reared organic meat, chicken, eggs, milk, veg & fruit for years. I guess going overboard with diet changes is just another dimension of this massive information absorbing & overload process that accompanies BC and the frantic attempt to somehow regain control - or the way I am dealing with it. And I will no doubt carry on in a similar vein - I’m now ploughing through Servan-Schreiber’s Anti Cancer - a new way of life. I am being challenged to give up honey as its high GI - but hang on, I thought my high (& very expensive) 15+ UMF Manuka honey was supposed to be good for me. I’m so confused too…
However, I’ve been really pleased to read this thread, especially the discussion about soy products. Thanks for all the advice and balanced opinions!!
Happy eating
Meggy
Hi, really interesting to read this thread because I had been wondering about cutting out soya because of phyto-oestregens. I’m the youngest of 3 sisters,no family history of breast cancer and have just been diagnosed with a grade 3 tumour. I’m also the only one in my family who has regularly eaten soya milk,tofu,soya protein,pulses for many years as part of a vegetarian diet and I’m wondering if all the healthy eating advice from various books,experts,health mags is just a big con. Unfortunately I actually prefer soya milk now and can’t drink tea made with dairy so ironically would find it hard to give up!