Terminal life insurance payout

Hi

I have found several very old threads on this topic but they are so old and sadly a lot of the posters have since died so felt it more appropriate to post a new topic.

Have put in for terminal illness payout on my life insurance - terminal rather than critical as I don’t have critical illness cover. I know that my onc doesn’t like to put a time limit on anything but my quality of life is being seriously compromised by not being able to work properly through chemo (self-employed single mum!) and just wanted to tie up a lot of loose ends, pay various things off, plan my daughters’ university fund etc etc. It would just be such a huge weight off my mind regardless of how long I may have (bone and liver mets) At the end of the day it’s a terminal diagnosis but no-one has a date stamped on the bottom of their foot!

Anyway, was just wondering for those of you who have had successful (or unsuccessful) claims in this respect, which company were you with?

Lesley xx

I did Lesley…Few years ago now but think it was Norwich Union ( through Tesco).

Good luck with it. I only had a small sum as had taken it out after my BC diagnosis. All gone now :frowning:

Julie x

hi Lesley

I got a small payout earlier this year, I hadn’t upped the premiums when we had extended or house, so I didn’t get enough to pay off the mortgage or anything, but it has enabled me to work part-time for a couple of years and have a couple of nice holidays/weekends away. I was with legal and general. They sent a claim form that the oncologist had to sign, he said he would sign it as he couldn’t guarantee for certainty that I would be here! but then added that I wasn’t to believe that and he thought I had a few years left, but as it had spread to my bones and liver, I could potentially be classed as 'terminal!

It wasn’t an easy process and legal and general tried to wriggle out of paying, eventually threatening to decline, because I had previously had a breast cyst that I hadn’t declared on the form. But after a board meeting in which an oncologist said that my cyst and BC 11 years later were totally unrelated, I was finally paid out!

Good Luck with it, if you approach your oncologist and ask him/her if they can guarantee that you will definately be here in a year’s time, if they can’t they may agree to sign the necessary paperwork.

Good Luck with it all, we live with so much crap in our lives that it is nice to have something, that while it no-where near compensates us for the raw deal with have, can bring a little happiness.

Thanks ladies, it’s encouraging to know that they seem to pay fairly readily even though they seem to wriggle a bit. Mine is with Friends Provident so hope they are as cooperative as your two companies.

I just know my oncologist is a very optimistic sort and just hope he’s been able to bring him to be a bit pessimistic on the necessary form - it’s awful really and I certainly don’t want to see what’s he’s written if I can help it but the payout would just make life so much easier. Financial pressure is the last thing any of us need at this stage quite frankly!!

If it’s declined I will certainly appeal and get the oncologist to re-write something or other. I also had a non-malignant breast lump (fibroadenoma) about eleven years ago but I did actually declare this when I took out the policy and so hopefully they can’t query this.

Just keeping everything crossed at the moment!
xx

Hi Lesley

My GP signed all of my forms to say that I had less than 12 months to live within a few months of my sec diagnosis. She was excellent, none of this parping about that so many of you have to put up with. Equally my Onc did the business to expedite my early retirement from work. It has made a big difference to us and made it so much eaisre for me to rest up as much as possible and not have to worry about finances. I consider myself very lucky - stupid statement really in the circumstances.

I sincerely hope that you find everyone as amenable to helping you sport this out, the last thing you need is hassle from anyone.

Best wishes Sue xx

Thanks Sue, that’s really encouraging - I just hope my onc will say the ‘right’ things - have discussed this in detail with my bcn so hopefully all will be well - it would just be such a massive weight off my mind and make life so very much easier. I know what you mean about feeling lucky, it’s not quite the right word but it does explain it very well! I’m self-employed so early retirement isn’t an option but if I could cut my working hours in half it would make a huge difference

xx

hello LesleyLP, please post again or PM on how you get on, i am going to look into this too, my circumstances are different in that i am still technically employed, but i get income protection through a benefit my employer offered, i also have ‘death in service’ life insurance, that would still payout if i die, but not sure they would do early now i have been diagnosedwith secondaries. i will let youknow how i get on, the other post are encouraging though.

r x

Morning Ladies,

Just to let you know im also putting in a claim for terminal illness cover on my life insurance, i have secondaries to bones and liver and about to start tax chemo. Its with Aviva, spoke to onc last week and he was happy to do forms so made a claim on the phone…it now depends on onc receiving the forms and filling them out!!! im just waiting to hear now, was last thurs 27th that i made the claim on the phone so no idea how long it’l take!! Ive got everything crossed they agree to payout, will be such a relief not having to worry about paying bills…food shopping when im having my chemo!! Will let you know what happens

Take care all, Tracey xx

Hi everyone

Well, to say my flabber is gasted or the other way around is an understatement!!

My onc filled in these forms for me in a totally positive and optimistic way, saying it was too early to tell how I’d get on with treatment and he couldn’t possibly say I had less than a year etc etc - all very, very encouraging from a health point of view but not so much financially. Spoke to the insurance company on Tuesday who sounded very negative about the whole issue of paying out on the basis of what my onc had said, but they would speak to their chief medical officer today.

Anyway … had a phone call this morning to say chief medical officer has agreed to pay my claim on the basis that I do have liver mets and could easily mean less than 12 months but that it was impossible to tell. They also said that as my policy has another 14 years to run they were paying out on that basis. So there we go, insurance companies can and do have a heart!! Said I was so grateful as I needed to sort out my children’s future etc etc and the lovely man on the end of the phone said to make sure I kept some back to treat myself too!

I’m not exactly celebrating but on the other hand it’s going to take such an enormous amount of pressure off me that I think I’ll feel better physically anyway.

Good luck to all of you who decide to claim, I’m so glad I’ve done it!

Lesley xxx

Lesley

That is great news, I hope you are starting to plan a few treats to look forward to!

Tracey I wish you luck in your application too!

Rhian, do you have a pension with your company? I have contacted my pension company and they will pay my pension early, a lump sum, then the pension starts. I don’t want to take them up on it yet, as I am still happy working part time, but it’s nice to know that it is there!

hi, yes i do though its notbeen going very long, i will drop HR an email. thank you

r x

I have no life insurance except 2 little policies that will pay out about 3k each. We didnt even have insurance on our mortgage (didnt think I need it aged 32…). Anyway, I thankfully do have death in service cover in my teachers pension. I spoke to them several times to see what the best option was once I was dx stage 4 and I decided against taking my pension early as even with all the enhancements, it wasnt much per month with me only being in my 30’s. Also they told me that taking early retirement would rule out the death in service payment. In my case the lump sum payment is well over £100k and would pay off our mortage so I decided to keep that in place.

Rhian, are you aware of the benefits you should be able to claim since your secondary dx?? I get ESA and DLA and works out over £200 p/w. Speak to your bcn. onc about the ds1500 form as it should guarantee your claim is successful and processed very quickly. PM me if you want any info on this.

Nicky, Im glad things are still going well at school and you are enjoying working p/t. You are doing great :slight_smile:
Tina xx

Tina x

Sorry to pick everyone’s brains on this topic yet again, but does anyone know what the tax position is on life insurance payout? I can only find reference to where it says it is usually not taxable, but I think that’s when it pays out in the ‘normal’ way. I assume I’ll have to pay tax on the interest on any investments, but surely not capital gains on the lump sum amount?

Hello

from what i understand the payment is tax free, and as you say once the money is used for saving/investment, it becaomes taxable like any other amount of money. See below a bit about tax and insurance protection monies. i get paid a small income protection amount, but do pay tax on it, if my employer would change how they administer the money ie paying tax etc, i could get the tax back or not pay any, as it happens my salaries dept won’t, but with hindsight if i had realised there was this loop hole i would have petered them more earlier to insist.

Further information on the tax treatment of PHI policies [Weblink]

Exempt benefits

Permanent Health Insurance (PHI), also known as Income Protection Insurance (IPI) and other names, can be taken out by individuals. It will provide them with income if they’re unable to work as a result of ill-health or disability, or even redundancy. Where a claim is made on the policy, any amount paid out is tax-free by virtue of a special exemption, s.735 of the Income Tax (Trading and other Income) Act 2005 (ITTOIA).But what’s the tax position if an employer takes out a group scheme and pays the premium as a benefit-in-kind (BiK) for their employees?

Taxman’s guidance

The Taxman’s guidance on PHI/IPI is not very clear. But we can say for certain that the exemption mentioned above is extended to employees who benefit from a policy taken out on their behalf by their employer (s.743 ITTOIA 2005). So you would expect a pay-out on a policy to be tax exempt. But there’s a catch.

Taxman’s advice

The Taxman’s instruction manual at IPTM6120 says “…If it [the premium] were taxed as a benefit the employee would have, in effect, paid the premium out of taxed income. Payments received under the policy would therefore be exempt.” But what does this mean in plain English?

Taxable or not taxable?

Trap. The tax-free status on PHI/IPI pay-outs is lost where tax relief is allowed to the insured (the employee). If an employee doesn’t pay tax on the premium as a BiK, then they’ve effectively received tax relief. And as a result, they will have to pay tax on money they receive from the policy. What if the employee pays tax on the premium as a BiK?

Tip. Where an employer pays a PHI/IPI premium for an employee who is then charged to tax on it as a BiK, there will be no tax to pay on the income received if the policy pays out.

Good news - bad news

It seems that one way or the other the Taxman is going to get his pound of flesh. But we think there’s a neat solution to reduce the tax payable. Tip. PHI/IPI policy premiums are due in advance. Therefore, you can use hindsight to decide whether to declare PHI/IPI premiums for employees under a group scheme as a taxable BiK. That way you can choose the most tax-efficient option.

Example. Assume on May 1 2009 you pay the premium renewal for all your employees included under a group PHI/IPI scheme. It averages out at £1,500 per employee. If no one claims under the policy by the end of the tax year, you can ignore the premium when the time comes to declare BiKs on form P11D in July 2010. Therefore, no employee has to pay tax on the premium. But now assume that one of your employees falls ill in November 2009 and can’t work. They claim £7,500 on the policy up to the end of the tax year. When it comes to filling in their P11D you can include the premium, just for that employee, as a BiK. As a result they will not be taxed on the £7,500 but only on the BiK of £1,500. Tax is avoided on £6,000!

The next step

For more information on the tax treatment of PHI policies, visit tax.indicator.co.uk (TX 09.14.03).

Reporting premiums as a benefit-in-kind on form P11D will mean policy pay outs are tax-free. But they will be taxable if premiums are left off. Leave the decision until after the tax year has ended and then choose which option is the most tax efficient.

Thanks Rhian, that’s really helpful - although the taxman always manages to find a way to get something! Am going to see a good financial adviser to steer me in the right direction for investing etc

Lesley xx

After I was diagnosed with secondary brain mets I asked my onc if I was now ‘terminal’. He said I was and Aviva paid out quickly and without a quibble. I then realised that I could claim on two small pensions, and again they paid without problem. The extra money has been more than useful.

I had a critical illness insurance pay out a few years ago from Aviva. I’ve been diagnosed as terminal this year and L&G paid out on an endowment. The little bit of pension that I have has paid out too.

Vent alert!!!

I have liver, lung and bone mets, diagnosed last June. After much searching around, we finally found our L&G mortgage protection policy that will pay out on terminal illness.

My husband called them the other day and spoke to a guy who asked if my onc had told me I only ad a year to live. My husband explained my diagnosis and said the outlook was less than rosy and then the guy said that unless my onc had specifically told me I only had a year then they wouldn’t send out the forms!

The thing which really p’s me off is that I don’t want to know how long I’ve got (although as a nurse, I’m not daft!) and I would never ask. In fact I’ve told my onc I’m a ‘day-at-a-time’ kind of gal and don’t want stats.

So I am now in a position where I have to see my onc and ask him to tell me I’ve only got a year so I can get the damn forms which I’m sure he will be more than happy to sign off on. I can understand that L&G have to be cautious but why not just send the damn form to the onc without insisting I sit through a “You’re stuffed” conversation?

Rant over!
Deep breath.
Take the dogs out!

Laurie x

it is Tax free dear.

I’m very intreasted in what your saying I have lung mets and node inv and mine is the same as you must be a l g thing I don’t want to know either and have decided to just wait as we never get told by onc tbh as I don’t think they really know either be intreasting to read how you get on as unless you got crit illness they don’t want to know gd luck Laura