It always makes me laugh that Labour after 13 years in power are still blaming the Tories for everything!
Gordon Brown isn’t an economist,his field is history. Prior to being an MP he was a university lecturer and had spent a little bit of time as a reporter on the STV news. He isn’t very ordinary either as he had the privileges that went with his father being a Church of Scotland minister (although he held communist views which meant he couldn’t progress far in the church). Mr Brown also had a very privileged grammar school education - I could have got into the same school had Labour not done away with the 11 plus the year before I was due to sit it. Thankfully my OH is a year older so he got the chance. Not to put too fine a point on it, the likes of Gordon Brown and his contemporaries at the High School looked down on children from my background whose fathers were miners and who went to the secondary schools. I have actually worked with Old Etonians in the City who were a heck of a lot more ordinary; they are not all the sons of baronets or upper class twits. I also cannot for the life of me stand all those hypocritical Labour supporting posh Islington types - Tony Blair, Margaret Hodge et al(I mean, how did she become children’s minister after what she presided over at Islington Council?). The one person I actually feel sorry for a bit is Alistair Darling who hasn’t been allowed to do his job properly with GB pulling all the strings in the background because he couldn’t let go as Chancellor.
Who’s blaming the Tories? Not me. In spite of 18 years of Tory misrule this Government has managed to forge ahead with reforms and the NHS is better than it has ever been.
Norman Lamont studied Economics - and he lost this country £3.3 billion on Black Wednesday.
Brown spent 10 very successful years as Chancellor of the Exchequer. He IS an economist. He also has a PhD in History, was a University lecturer in Politics and was Rector of his university.
George Osborne - 2nd class degree in modern history and a job as a data entry clerk.
No contest.
The truth is that the Tories are hoping for a Lib-Tory pact so they can ditch him and get Vince Cable into No 11.
Where is Osborne anyway? The Tories are hiding him away because he is such a phenomenal liability.
I have known plenty of public school chaps Cherub. Nice enough boys but I don’t want them running my country thank you very much because they haven’t a clue what it’s like to struggle to pay the rent or feed and clothe your kids - let alone deal with normal life and cancer too.
Cameron said the other day that “parental warmth” was much more important than money. Only someone who has never known what it is to struggle would come out with something so crass and offensive.
17 of Cameron’s cabinet were privately educated and 14 - that’s FOURTEEN!! - of his front bench team went to Eton.
How the hell can that be representative of the people of this country?
And you know what “Call me Dave” Cameron said? Not that he was perplexed that his cabinet was so incredibly unrepresentative of this wonderfully diverse nation of ours - oh no, he said he was just a bit worried that they were all fat!
Out of touch Tories. Always were and always will be. But if you like your governments to be paternalistic and elitist then go ahead and put a cross in the blue box next week. Then sit back and watch the NHS disappear in a steady flow of privatisation.
It seems to me we are all getting hung up on Labour/Tory, who supports who & never the twain shall meet. But personally I DON’T CARE what party they are from, as the differences between them, particularly since the advent of ‘New’ Labour seem to be less & less.
I would just like to see politicians of whatever party remembering that they are there to serve us, & not themselves. Now, I like to think that when they start out to have a career in politics they are all nice wee boys & girls who are wanting to do this for all the right reasons, to make things better & fairer etc. But what is it that comes over them when they get there, that the majority of them suddenly start to make things better primarily for themselves ? I am thinking, of course, of the expenses scandals. What makes anyone believe that it’s O.K to make the ridiculous claims they were making ? Even without the second homes, duck houses & moat cleaning, why do they think they shouldn’t buy their own wallpaper, televisions, tin-openers etc. And lunches ? Who buys my lunch ? Me !
How can any of them begin to understand what it’s like to live on a wage & budget for everything, when they are allowed to claim for often trivial things on expenses ? That’s our money they are taking, how arrogant. We all have to support ourselves on our wages, they should do the same. I don’t believe for one minute that because the publicity has died down things are very much improved. I also think that one of the major problems the country faces is the fact that so many people are totally disillusioned with the politicians, & believe that they are all the same, & that whoever gets in it won’t make any difference, & this is why so many don’t bother to vote. It’s not the fault of the people that there is this perception of the politicians, it’s their fault for treating us so high handedly & as if we don’t matter at all. They promise us the earth when they’re trying to win our votes, but very rarely come up with the goods once they’ve got them.If we could actually be governed by people who cared more about the country & less about themselves they are the ones I would want to vote for, & I wouldn’t really care what label they wore. What difference does it make now what the last Tory government did so many years ago ? Or how many years Labour has had since ? Let’s look forward, not back. Apportioning blame takes time & energy that could be better spent trying to improve. Learn from past mistakes by all means, but then move on.
Oh Sandra,
My heart gos out to you , it is so very sad to see and hear of our older generation, OUR PARENTS, being subjected to such uncaring ,undignified ,cruelty ,because that is what it is, cruelty,there is no other word for it, like you ,i dread to think of those people who have no family, no one who can look out for them, its a very sad ending to a life and nobody should have to EVER end their days like that, there are no excuses for those in charge of their care its a total disgrace .
Just like your Dad , mine too was in the services (The Navy) and fought for this country , when the war was over he was a sailor for many years on the Royal Yacht. ( theres a story )he worked all his life and when he needed care it wasnt there.
Some people seem blinkered, cant see how it realy is Still today for some people and their familys who are not getting the treatment or care that their loved ones deserve from our NHS, Lets get REAL here, at present while this NHS has excelled in some areas it has failed miserably in others. Treatment and care is not equal and it should be, wherever you live, whatever your illness, and definately whatever your age FULL STOP.
Linda x
Hi, I agree that care should be good, no matter who you are, what your medical issue is, or where you live. I have fought for years to get proper, appropriate, good quality care for older people, in particular, for the last 15 years as a manager. I believe that we owe those people who fought in the war (my dad and his contemporaries), worked in tough areas like the mines (my dad etc) and who paid into the welfare state from 1948 (both my parents) my mum came here from Germany - aged 22 - in 1948, to work in the new NHS as a nurse.
I’m one of 8 kids who all pay taxes, work hard and have been successful in their own fields.
I and my sibs are totally a product of the welfare state but have put much more into it than we got out, in terms of taxes paid, NI etc. Of all of us, I am the one who has needed the NHS most, and it has been great for me. I have also contributed heavily over the years (which is appropriate to my earnings)and am happy to pay taxes as applied.
A civilised society protects those who need its protection and fund that protection from the people who can afford to fund it.
The basis of socialism (which is a word that has been demonised over the last 30 years by various political bodies) is that the people who need support are given it, and each person in society contributes as he is able to. “to each according to his need; from each according to his ability”.
As an unashamed socialist, I think that we lose the NHS, or destabilise it, at our peril.
As someone who works for the NHS, I believe that it has (broadly) improved out of all recognition in the last 13 years. I know there are variances around the country and between patient groups, and that work needs to continue, to improve services for all of us, but there are many people working to do that.
As a patient, I have seen the changes since Labour came into power and services where I live (and work) have improved materially.
I just do not believe the Tory claim that the NHS is going to be safe in their hands. I think that is a very cruel joke.
It’s definitely not a joke I want to enter into…
Well stated Daisyleaf!
Welsh girl x
this thread is so boreing I for one dont wish to hear peoples political views especially not on here especially not on here.I think people sgould keep there views to themselves and not on a breast cancer site my friend on here feels exactly the same. Linda
Hi Linbob,
Sorry you feel ‘bored’ by these posts! sometimes l suppose we just need something else to focus on. The headline says it all ‘Current issues/hot topics’ and with the election coming up the NHS is what it is all about for us, so we are just expressing our views on it, some finding it good and others not good.
There are lots of posts on here to read, l know l for one do not open them all, so perhaps for you and your friend it is best not to open this topic, well not at the moment anyway, who knows it may become more interesting, once the election is over!!
Sandra x
Linbob if you and your friend find this thread boring then it’s very simple - don’t read it.
This is the CURRENT ISSUES/HOT TOPICS section and we are having a very enjoyable discussion.
I think it is really rather offensive to dismiss people’s opinions as boring - people here have recounted some very moving and personal stories about deaths of family members.
When someone describes the death of a parent it is NOT boring.
As we are all cancer patients we are almost all users of the NHS - you may think that it is unimportant who holds the purse strings but I most certainly don’t - and it is great to see that others don’t too - even ones from the other end of the political spectrum!
Hi msmolly,
Thank you, must say l did find Linbob’s comments offensive, as l had written about my Dad’s death! and was sad to see someone had put ‘boring’ in this thread.
I think l typed a ‘nice’ response to her, but truth be known l was very offended by Linbob’s comments.
Please remember Linbob, We are not forced to read all posts, so just read and ignore, if it is of no interest to you And try not to make offensive comments, there is no need.
Sandra
On the eve of a general election, when whoever wins the election has massive ramifications for the NHS, this topic is highly relevant. In particular, as the vast majority of us have had our treatment on the NHS or have had friends and family treated, it is imperative that these topics are aired.
What I do find greatly concerning is those who are totally apathetic regarding the different manifestos and have no interest in who governs us at all. How can you possibly make an informed choice in the election or worse still, perhaps its more likely that you don’t bother not to vote at all.
Ladies,
This thread is becoming somewhat heated so can I please remind you of our Community Guidelines:
community-guidelines-please-read-t25601.html
In particular points 1 and 2: 1) Be kind to each other and 2)Celebrate difference and disagree respectfully.
Debate is good but not when it starts to become personal.
Best wishes
Sam, BCC Facilitator
Well said Cathy & if we don’t pay attention & use our votes, we will get the NHS & everything else we deserve; but I think this is symptomatic of the disillusionment I have previously mentioned. Politicians of whatever party need to make themselves more relevant & excite the people & make us believe that our votes really can make a difference.
The personal experiences on this thread have been so moving,& show that we need to fight to secure not only funds for the NHS but also standards of care. Preserving a patients dignity should be such an obvious requirement, & the psychological effect on a proud man or woman of being left dirty etc. must surely impact on their physical condition.
I think that this debate has been going very well considering the topic and so far the posters have managed to remain mature and respectful despite holding very strong and different views, politically. I have learned a fair bit from both the political aspect and from the personal stories and I am sure others have too. It has been highly informative so hopefully it will continue.
I’m not entering into the political debate but I’ve just read this story online. I hope this lady is able to get SIRT treatment. A friend had this very treatment at, I think, the Royal Marsden.
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1270160/Betrayed-NHS-Doctor-gave-life-health-service-refused-vital-cancer-drugs-save-her.html
It gave her 6 cancer free months with her children. She was grateful for those 6 months as no chemo had been effective.
Just wanted to make a comment along the lines of the original thread, I too have had fantastic care so far from the NHS, the only exception is the 2 GP’s I saw, the first sending me away with painkillers and the second 6 months later only referred me as I insisted - he was ready to send me home with a quick ‘your far to young for this to be serious’ - once sent to the hospital I could never have imagined ‘free’ health care to be so good - I can’t thank the nurses / doctors / surgeons / everyone enough (I now go to a different doctors)!!
THANK YOU NHS
carly x
Hi Belinda,
I have just read the Becky Smith story, how very sad, the postcode lottery must be stopped. This is after all a ‘NATIONAL’ Health Service!
Sandra
Hi Sandra, my NHS care has been marvellous but I know other fellow secondary patients in various parts of the UK are just not getting access to the same level, range of treatments and care.
x
Certainly this wretched “postcoding” needs to change asap. A question for anyone who comes electioneering in the next few days eh?
A horrible story of misdiagnosis common to so many young women - the too young to have it scenario.
Secondary care for cancer patients definitely needs attention too.
Cathy - absolutely agree. Given the potential tinderbox of this topic I think this discussion has been fascinating - and not in the least unpleasant. I do hope that we can continue it without fear of it being unnecessarily derailed.
This is a horrible example of the postcode lottery, & while taking your previous point msmolly about it being a devolved issue in Scotland, I feel that in the case of healthcare England is one country & treatments ought to be available no matter where you live. Everyone should know that they will receive the best treatment there is, regardless of their address. We have educated this young woman, who’s working in the NHS, & who knows what she might not achieve in the future, to all our benefits ? Even that should not be the consideration though - where is that ‘to each according to their needs’ philosopy in here ?
I agree this debate has been both fascinating & interesting - I have learned from it already - about a topic that is unfortunately very close to us all.