Breast Cancer (The Bigger Picture)

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61

Forgot to say…I am also very affected by sleep/light (possible vit D connection) and wondered if others are ??

I know there is research about night workers and bc. I sleep very lightly and never have a night when i am not up at least twice, tripping to the loo (with a light on).I realise that lots of people are but it could be just the combination load on hormones for people that are already sensitive.

More significantly, I suffer very badly from Seasonal Affective Disorder. I always have struggled in darker months in terms of depression, lethargy and low mood. My mood always lifts in about April/May. I also have very pale skin and always need to wear a high factor sunscreen. I have never had my vit D levels tested…Mmm

Julie x

62

I am also a very light sleeper, can’t remember the last time I had a full nights sleep I think I can honestly say that I have had about a handful of all night sleeps over the past 20 years. and its even worse now with the night sweats from tamoxifen up and down a few times through the night.I also have fair skin and used to avoid sitting in the sun.I had low calcium levels when diagnosed, is it right that you need calcium to absorb VIT D or is it the other way round.

melxx

63

I was interested in BWs post re drinking water in London. In the 20 years I lived there I never drank tap water as it was so disgusting (I lived in Essex/E London and the water was hard with a film on it). Even when I worked in a modern office block in the City there were notices up in the office kitchenettes about the tap water being unfit for drinking. I guess I must have got through an awful lot of the bottled stuff.

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I have been drinking bottled water for about a year I used to have a filter but it broke.I live in the greater london area and the tap water is very hard and when you turn the tap on there is a smell like chlorine (spelling) in it.and I also read somewhere about hormone levels in tap water.So the bottled water is bad because of the plastic bottles and a filter is bad because that is also plastic and the tap water’s not that great either lol.Maybe boil the water then let it cool in the fridge or is that bad too coz the kettle is plastic lol.

Melxx

65

Hi Lindyloo- I think this thread is really interesting - but it does seem that the ONLY commonality from those who have contributed thus far, is that we all have BC

My daughter was diagnosed at 32 & again at 36 with a primary in her other breast.
12 months later, aged 65, I was picked up on a routine mammo- no symptoms or lumps but already Grade 3,stage 3.

We do not have a genetic link (at least not one so far isolated) and there has been absolutely NO BC or other cancer history in my family or my husband’s for the past 2 generations (like you Lindyloo, I think) We have been a family of very long- livers, especially on my side.

I had a late menarche, breast-fed 4 children before I was 30, had excellent health, not overweight, didn’t drink or smoke after my 20s, slept like a top, happy marriage, happy home, good job, no stress (other than concern re my daughter.)

The only 'unusual ’ factor (which is absolutely nothing to do with any ‘common’ thread) is that I have had 20+ friends and acquaintances with BC …some of whom lived near me for many years - but a number of others who didn’t. Several of them are now dead including one in her thirties, one in her forties and 4 in their 50s. Maybe figures like this are not unusual in someone of my age- or maybe I just know a lot of people? ( None of these 20 women are people I met during my own 10 months of treatment.)

My only ‘predisposing factors’ that I maybe have myself ( and I’m dubious about the latter one) ) are that I was 65 at diagnosis and had taken the dreaded (or wonderful in my case!) HRT for 10 years.

I am hopeful that a mega survey like Breakthrough Generations may one day be able to suggest what really predisposes us to certain diseases, why others with apparently similar lifestyles and health histories, don’t get them-…and more importantly, what we can do about it.

66

This is really fascinating, if only to show that this bloody bc hits women (and men) with all sorts of lifestyles/diets/vices/none of the aforementioned.

I just heard of yet another woman I know who has had bc in her early 40’s (I childminded her children ten years ago, and just bumped into one of them!) - and it did make me wonder if there was just something in that we are all living so much longer these days? I’m not meaning to sound trite, at all - but what if our breasts have a tendency to time out?

I am terribly aware that there are some exceedingly young women with bc, but there are also a frightening amount at around the age of 40ish - back when life expectancy was being a brood mare from early teens til you popped off in your late 30’s… maybe our breasts were programmed for that sort of lifestyle?

I think there will prob. be a million factors, but this is one that has honestly just popped into my head. Feel free to laugh me off the thread!!! It does sound silly now I’ve written it down…

Sophie xxx

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No, Sophie, I don’t think it sounds silly at all.

The life expectancy of humans say, 5,000 years ago (a blink of an eye in evolutionary terms) must have been a lot shorter than it is now, and as you say the females would have been having or feeding children for most of their adult life. I suspect that menopause was rare and older women probably died of other things before the menopause even had a chance to happen.

The way we live today is so far outside what we were “designed” for by evolution that I don’t think we’d ever be able to get to the bottom of the causes of our cancers, because the causes are just too complex and deep-seated in our evolution.

So I’m going to get on and deal with it and not beat myself up for having been very stressed over the last 10 years. After all, the stress was not something I put myself through on purpose, and in between the stress I was LIVING, which is what counts really. And I intend to carry on LIVING rather than just existing, which would be a danger if I were to cut out everything that might have possibly contributed to the cancer starting.

68

Hi Ladies,
Bit late tonight, Had a long stressful day grr but wont go there lol.
Anyway great to see all your comments and other new thoughts,
Re the sleep thing, i sleep terribly ,often up 2-3 times in the night ,light off/on ect, it takes me ages to get to sleep (though knackered most of the time) ,often still up at 2 sometimes 3am, not good when you have to be up early…
Im definately season affected too , much brighter ,def higher energy levels ,happier mood ect in the summer mths , winter im sluggish, low, cant be bothered and could quite happily just stay in bed and not bother, im pale also, never had my Vit D levels tested either.
Good point sophie about us all liveing longer , could def be a factor too that we hadnt thought of, and not silly at all , all these things are are reminding us of stuff that we may not otherwise think about.

From a lot of what ive read though for some reason since WWII the rates of cancer incidence increased drastically , also read somewhere that they expect cancer to increase up by 30% in the next 20yrs, (though treatments hopefully will be a hell of a lot better by then)why is that? God knows but there must be a reason eh.
Keep plugging away ladies ,we proberly will never know all the answers but its great to keep digging away at it, and we may just stumble accross somethings we hadnt even thought of.
Linda x

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Hi topsymo,
Its interesting that you too have no family history of any cancers like me, so where on earth ours came from God knows, certainly makes you wonder doesnt it.

Interesting too that you have 20+ friends that have had BC , i dont have any friends who have had BC, though i do care for 3 elderly ladies in my job who had it 25+ yrs ago , one of these ladies is back at the breast clinic later today .after finding a new lump (same side) after all this time, so am keeping fingers crossed for her bless her .
Its possible like you say that maybe its due to age ,or just that you have lots of friends , or maybe is there higher rates in different parts of the country?Hmmm another question.

Like you say though the only real commonality so far that has come across i quess is that we all have BC , but like sophie says too with all the different sorts of lifestyles/diets/vices/ Family history ect thats the only connection, apart i suppose from the enviroment which all of us are subjected too.
I think that proberly Alcohol,Obesity,Exercise/Diet ect are all proberly risk factors to a certain extent because they have been proven to be, but its a very simplistic answer that doesnt tick all the boxes, and knowing what our differences are on here so far i just cant see that any of these things are the prime cause, i was thinking last week when i was sat watching Britians Fattest Man (did anyone else see that?) that here is a guy 60+ stone ,no exercise ever,(in fact has never even been out of bed for 10yrs, not even to the toilet) eats anything and everthing all day long and all night long in huge,huge amounts ,but he doesnt have cancer?? just like so many other people with a realy unhealthy lifestyle.Its just so bloomin random isnt it?.

Linda x

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Great thread and very interesting…
I have no family history of BC or any other cancer, am 42 years old, fit and healthy, drink in moderation… work can be stressful but no more than anyone else. One daughter at 18.
The two years prior to BC we tried for a baby, unfortunately it only lead to 4 miscarriages. My Onc said that this probably ‘fed’ my BC. After the last one, I had the mirena coil put in. I believe that both these things contributed as I was 8/8 ER+
Its such a brutal disease, made all the more worse because none of us know what to do to stop it coming back… it will always haunt me
Marguerite

71

I sometimes wonder whether certain people’s bodies are just more sensitive to things so what acts as a carcinogen to some won’t affect others, much like allergies. Then it might be that with some other genetic predisposition, or obesity or other additional external influence.

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I think you are right, apart from those with family histories and the rogue genes, we all have varying degrees of genetic disposition. So some like the 60+ stone man can do everything wrong and remain unscathed, but certain behaviours will set off your risk at an earlier stage. Lung cancer is nearly always caused by smoking, but some unfortunate souls get it when they’ve never smoked, and some smoke for decades and never develop it.

73

It is painfully random, isn’t it? I do think that genetic predisposition is prob. the key - and as genetic research gets ever more detailed, we will discover that most, if not all cancers have specific triggers within our genes - that can be switched on by lifestyle, or purely by age.

When it comes to lifestyle and known risk factors, I am plumb in the middle, really - I’ve always battled weight, though have only been officially ‘obese’ since last two children, and that with BMI of 31 - so not hugely so. I am fit and active though, despite extra luggage on my hips and bum, had four children, the first two in my mid-twenties, breastfed them all (and they all preferred to feed from left boob, which was the one which developed the lump). Although I did drink quite a bit when younger, I very rarely drink now, and that’s been true for last four or five years. Loads of fresh veg and fruit… but I do smoke. And yet, the irony is that of all the cancers I could have got, I got the one with no known link to smoking. I’m adopted, so no family history known - and I am 41, so officially ‘too young’.

One of the first things I asked my onc. was whether my weight was the cause (obsessed, much?!), especially as I’d lost two stone over the summer after weight rocketed through working in a kitchen with a fab, fab cook… but onc. said not enough proof in younger (pre-menopausal women), as although I’m highly er+ it is post menopause that the body tends to take oestregen from fat… before that our reproductive systems donate all that is required.

So, no more ideas - just my sum-up to add to all the other histories on here!

Sophie xx

74

I was diagnosed at 41 and was convinced that stress had a major part to play in getting BC (another teacher here) but was later on diagnosed with BRAC 2. Not a big history of BC in family, partly due to domination of boys. But my Dad died of pancreatic cancer in his early thirties and 1 cousin had BC in her 30’s so they tested me. My brother died of lung cancer aged 31 and even though he was a smoker this was very young. The genetics doc I saw said his cancer wasn’t connected to the faulty gene but I really believe that that must be some genetic connection. Someone else I spoke to believed that they will find more genetic mutations for many different types of cancer as research progresses.

75

Hi Ladies,
I too think some of us may have a genetic predisposition to cancer,or if not some other factor has caused our DNA to be damaged causing cells to mutate,whatever that factor might be ,our cells have not been able to carry out the correct repair that usealy occurs to duplicate our cells correctly.
Ive been trying to delve more into how our cells do this, but of course its a very complicated area,no wonder Scientist have such a tough job deciphering it all in trying to put it all together.
Fasinating stuff though.
info.cancerresearchuk.org/cancerandresearch/all-about-cancer/what-is-cancer/making-new-cells/dna-damage-and-repair/

learn.genetics.utah.edu/archive/sloozeworm/mutationbg.html

info.cancerresearchuk.org/cancerandresearch/all-about-cancer/what-is-cancer/faulty-genes/

Linda

76

Another possible cause of course to breast cancer is a Virus, its not something ive realy thought about much before but there are lots of studies now taking place on this,
We now know for example that Cervical cancer, and other cancers of the genital area, are linked to the human papilloma virus (HPV)
Primary liver cancer is linked to the Hepatitis B and C viruses
And Lymphomas are linked to the Epstein-Barr Virus also
T cell leukaemia in adults is linked to the Human T cell leukaemia virus
HPV also probably leads to oropharyngeal cancer and non melanoma skin cancers in some people,so a virus may also be a possible/probable link to BC.

The mouse mammary tumor virus, (MMTV)and and Epstein-Barr (EBV) virus are the main suspects.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17661684
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19009309

Dr. Kathleen T. Ruddy’s (a breast cancer surgeon,) has an interesting view on the possiblity of “mouse mammary tumor virus” being linked to breast cancer.
Ive put the link of her credentials and background below ,also a link to her blog on the subject.
breasthealthandhealing.org/learn/drktruddy.html
breastcancerbydrruddy.com/2010/10/28/the-virus-and-the-vaccine-2/
So even more interesting breast cancer causing possibilities.
Linda x

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Hi ladies

Since being diagnosed with triple negative breast cancer two and half years ago (the more sinister type of bc with low survival rate etc.,) I have trawled the internet on things linking breast cancer to diet; being over weight; western life style; not breast feeding our infants etc., I always think of Linda McCartney. She was one of wealthiest, and judging by her sensible eating food range, one of the healthiest individuals I can think of, yet breast cancer still claimed her life. On the other hand, genetics could hold the key, but how far in the future are we looking in terms of a cure? In the meantime we should look at the bigger picture and consider the millions of pounds donated to cancer charities over the years, not to mention the drugs companies who will never lose out all the time cancer is treatable but never cured. Sorry I used to get the two confused, treatable and cure, two totally different things.

78

Hi yellow,
I agree Cancer is certainly big busisness for the drug companies,im not even so sure there will ever be a cure as such to be honest,id like to think there will be one day, but i think its more likely that cancer will become a chronic desease, something to be lived with, treatable long term rather than a death sentence,
Cancer has been around for so many centuries now,i think the first ever cancer case recorded was as far back as 3000 B.C, so if its been around for that long ,it makes you question just how far we have realy come doesnt it? of course we have made great breakthroughs with treatments, Chemotherapies,Herceptin,Hormone Therapies,ect over the years but none of these things are a gaurentee to cure us .
Cancer Quest (Winship Cancer Institute)is a very good website and a scorce of information in trying to understand the desease, theres lots of info on the history of cancer,the treatments over the centuries, video lectures on whats known about the desease ect,
cancerquest.org/cancer-timeline-introduction

I too have often thought about women like Linda
McCartney and her healthy lifestyle choices,also Karen Keating who had a range of orthodox and complimentary cancer treatments, but sadly breast cancer still took both their lives ,i remember reading that Karen Keating refused Tamoxifen in favour of complimentary cancer treatments but it didnt help hold the desease back , i quess there realy are no answers, its just all very very sad .

Its the million dollar question i quess ,why one person gets cancer and another person doesnt ,and also why one treatment works for some and doesnt for others.If we cant find a cure ,we realy need to put more money into trying to find a prevention.
Will we ever have the answers?
Linda

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hi, I have been following this post with interest, i posted quite early on, what i have forgotten to mention is that all through my working life i have been a shift worker first in hospital and now with emergency services which has been the best part of 25-30 years other than breaks for having my family. there have been some interesting stories mainly from scandanavian countries about shift and night workers and the lack of melatonin which is produced during hours of darkness, over there some workers( airhostesses and nurses) have successfully suied the government after dx of BC, this research is still ongoing and not yet proven.

all the best
Annie

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Hi
This is a great thread. I accept that my bc “just happened” but I have tried to read and get more understanding about why it did.

I was diagnosed in Mar 09 and like Yellow I am triple negative - ER 0/8 so not a trace of oestrogen so I guess that all the risk factors relating to periods, having kids, breastfeeding don’t apply to me - or do they? My greatest risk factor was age, 61 at dx but then all the literature says TN is more common in younger women and also often African/Caribbean heritage whereas I’m Caucasian.

My father and his eldest daughter (my half-sister) both died of lung cancer but they were heavy smokers. Last year my 26yr old niece was treated for ovarian cancer so it is certainly in the family although no-one else has had breast cancer. I do personally think stress is a factor somewhere. In 2002 my marriage ended after 30 years and I took a more senior (stressful)role at work to help my salary. I liked the work but it meant 2 hours driving each day to and from work, lack of sleep, lack of exercise and too many ready meals as I tried to combine the job with managing house, garden etc on my own.

I am hoping that all the research that is going on now will lead to a treatment for TN to improve our statistics. I agree that a cure may be a lot further away.

Joss