Breast Cancer (The Bigger Picture)

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81

Hi Lindiloo

During the past 2 and half years, I think I have exhausted all sites relating to breast cancer but I will try the site you have mentioned. Thanks for acknowleging my response. You will have to forgive me as I tend to get carried away sometimes. I may come accross as cynical about the cancer industry and the charities but it does make you think.

Hi Ajaytee I was 55 years old when I was diagnosed with tnbc, so younger than you. You are right the vast majority of info written on tnbc tends to focus on younger women developinng this particular type of bc. My onc did not appear too concerned when I questioned him about my tn status. For example I was not offered chemo as this was considered overtreatment as my cancer was less than 1cm grade 2 with no lymph or vascular involvment. Yet I have read that regardless of size triple negative should always be treated with chemo. Now that I am approaching the third year of this disease I am feeling a little scared to say the least

Thanks to all who responded to me.

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Hi Ladies,
Annie, it is intersting about the possible link between night workers and the lack of melatonin isnt it, i know the Generation Study is looking into this as another possible link to BC, very interesting too that some of the night shift workers from the scandanavian countries have successfully suied the government after a dx of BC, ummmm makes you wonder if they already have some sort of evidence doesnt it?its good that the research is ongoing into this.

Hi Joss,
I also think that stress proberly plays a part for some of us, (particulary prolonged intense stress), i know theres no proof as yet,but anything that lowers the immune system in this way has an impact on us and makes us more susceptible to illness and desease. I know when im highly stressed , i break out in cold sores and boils, dont eat properly ect. get very run down.
Fingers crossed that research will be able find more treatments very soon for TN BC , much more needs to be done for TN.

Hi Yellow,
I know what you mean about reading every site out there about BC, i too can get carried away with it all sometimes , i think its proberly something that most of us do at some point, go searching for the answers,even though we may never find them,i quess its just trying to make sense of it all, and trying to understand this thing thats invaded our lives.
BC has certainly been a very steep learning curve for me , and it has also made me very cynical in lots of ways too, so your not alone. its seperating the fact from the fiction thats the challenge sometimes ,trying to find the reputable data thats out there. Anyway i hope the site i put up earlier was of some interest to you and maybe others.I found the history of cancer quite interesting, not something i knew much about before, Hope you are ok and keeping well.

Linda x

83

Hi Lindiloo,

I was directed to your thread by another lady as I have asked a question which probably belongs more on this thread than where I put it. I would be interested in your opinon, if you have the time to read this.

Thanks

50Something.

breastcancercare.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=29961&p=503019#p503019

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Hi 50Something,
There are lab tests (usealy blood)which can be done that can determine our levels of oestrogen in the body High/Low ect, but these are only normally carried out for reasons such as fertility issues,
We know that high levels of oestrogen do increase our cancer risk, but even haveing a test like this wouldnt be able to predict an idviduals likelihood of breast cancer as there are also many other factors at play.

Throughout our lives our hormone levels fluctuate, like during puberty , so its normal for our levels of oestrogen to rise sometimes, for example,it plays a role in breast development when we are young, it gives us a more mature curved figure, fuller hips, pubic and underarm hair ect .

Higher levels of oestrogen are also seen in women who are extremely overweight.and often seen in women who have high blood pressure or diabetes. Oestrogen levels also rise of course during pregnancy ,

Unfortuneately as others have said earlier , it is the tumour that is hormone positive and not the person ,so i suspect it would’nt ever be possible to devise a test that could predict which of the different people that use HRT ,would be at a greater or lower risk ,
It is possible like others have said for some people to not only have a er+ cancer but also a negative cancer at the same time ,and hormone status can also change sometimes with a reocurrence too .

About 15% of breast cancers are not hormone dependent ,so it is more common to have a er+ cancer, but for those of us that are er+ anything that increases our oestrogen levels such as the Pill/HRT ect realy wouldnt be advisable as we already know we have a hormone dependant cancer.

All these things are about increased “Risk” not “Cause” so there will be people who are on HRT/pill ect who will never get BC, just as there are people with none of the known risk factors that do get BC, But cancer by its very nature is a very complex desease so most likely has many different factors at play, The Known risk factors are Obesity,Alcohol,Enviroment ect, but more importantly genetics is thought to be at the root of all cancers whether they are hereditary or not,
As of yet, there is no single known definate cause of BC “just increased risks” so with all the many different factors involved we are not yet able to predict an individuals cancer risk or occurrence.
The good news is that with the completion of the Human Genome Project they have now been able to identify all the approximately 20,000-25,000 genes in human DNA, so it will soon be possible with the new technology to allow scientists to identify the faulty genes in individuals cancer,this will then allow everyones cancer treatment to be personalised, which will be a great leap forward for all of us, and for the future cancer .

Best Wishes
Linda (was Lindiloo) x

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Hi I am still trying to take all this in, i have grade 3 breast cancer but have no name for it or stage just told i am stage 3. also that hormones not involved so i said of HER2 negative which he said yes but the other hormones were not mentioned the oesgtrogen and p… gen… does that mean cos he never mentioned them they are negative too and tha i am tripple negative. is that more of a worry? that the survival rate is low of tripple neg, getting very scared. only had 2 nodes inv out of 18 removed so was starting to get hopeful from that, should i not be? my treatment was WLE and he got it all out no need for any futher surgery. and i have to have chemo and radio. themo is once every 3 weeks for 6 doses. Also how can my margins of been clear if it has spread to 2 nodes. would the breast tissue around my lump be not clear as it cant just jump to nodes?
Many thanks Shar xx

86

Hi Shar,
If you can ring your BCN or when you next see your BC consultant they will be able to give you a copy of your path report and be able to explain your DX better to you.
The Cancer grade refers to the “personality of the cancer” ie slow growing,moderate,or faster growing,
Stage refers to size of the tumour and spread .ive put the link to cancer research uk which explains the different stages and gradeing of tumours.

cancerhelp.org.uk/type/breast-cancer/treatment/tnm-breast-cancer-staging

My Tumour was 2.3cms IDC,grade 3 er/pr+ no nodes affected so for me im T2/NO/MO ie early stage llA,T2 =tumour between 2-5cms NO= nodes none, and MO = (metastasis) or spread none.

If a tumour is er/pr+ it means the tumour is receptable to hormones so after any initial cancer treatments ie Chemo/Rads ect,Tamoxifen or an AI would be perscribed depending on menopausal status as it would be beneficial as a hormone therapy.
If the tumour has no hormone receptors ie er/pr- and Her2 neg then this is classed as a Tripple Negative tumour,so this tumour wouldnt benefit from an hormone therapy.
Tripple neg cancers although cant have the benefit of a hormone therapy ,usealy however respond better to chemotherapy then er+ cancers,and once a tripple neg cancer has been clear for 8yrs it is unlikely that it would recurr ,where as an er+ cancers can recurr even in later yrs so while tripple neg BC is sometimes thought of as more aggressive its swings and roundabouts sometimes and doesnt mean that outcome will be any worse.
It can all seem very complicated i know,especialy when we are first DX and trying to get our heads round it all,but do please have a chat with your team so they can explain your particular DX to you.
Re ,haveing “clear Margins” which is good also ,means that there was no cancer cells present beyond the tumour excised ,so this means there would have been a clear margin around the tumour of healthy tissue. When cells travel form a tumour to the lymph nodes the lymph nodes “job” is to “catch any cells” before they excape to any other parts of the body which yours did so please try not to worry i know its hard not too.
Hope this helps a bit, when you get your path report you will be able to understand more about your DX and treatments.
Best Wishes to you
Linda x

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Thank you Linda I totally appreciate you writing all of that and im reading and taking it all in. its just so confusing all the dx and i have learnt that bc is not bc many diff types. everyone keeps saying, look at kylie she survived but she could of been grade 1 and not tripple neg!!! my care team dont seem to think i need to know more than i do. just to accpt its gone and the chemo will zap any stray cells and the ct scan will say if spread they keep very low key and i feel to ask them they want to calm me down and take diazipan to help take the edge off but i dont want to i just want to know whats what like everyone of this site and they dont want to tell me just say its out and thats it but cant say not spread hence chemo and rads. thanks for your support though it means alot and i will save disc to my profile so i can refer thank you xsssxxxxxxxx

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Hi Shar, sorry that you are worried about the dx. I agree with others that you should ring your BCN and explain your fears and ask for more details. I suspect if itwas e+ or p+ they might have mentioned it but there is so much to take in you might not have caught this bit. Was taking hormone treatment such as tamoxifen mentioned which might suggest hormone receptive?

I would try not to google too much. I am guilty of this too. I don’t have clear
margins because there is DCIS and they are really positive about getting these next time but when I googled I was seeing people who have mx because of widespread DCIS and it set me off worrying again. I think some people need to know what they are dealing with. I am one of those people and maybe you are too but there are people who have been unlucky with all dx. We’ve got to remember that the prognosis is very good and that whatever type, treatments are getting more and more effective. Sorry that none of us can take your fear away, it is such a scary illness but at least your bc is gone and chemo will zap anything else for you so that it never comes back xx

89

Hiya Shar,
I know its a very scarey time for you right now,so huge,big hugs to you,it will get better when you start your treatments i promise, its a lot to take in at first but please just try and take one step at a time and dont read stuff thats too far ahead as it can be very scarey sometimes and may not always apply to us.
Chemo and Rads are there to “mop up” any stray cancer cells just in case there are any , so its sometimes a belt and braces treatment,a bit like an insurance policy , not sure when you are haveing your CT scan? but try not to worry,i know thats easier said then done,but im sure all will come back fine, please let me know how you get on,if you ever want to Pm me if youd like too anytime for some support or a friendly listening ear please do,if i can help with anything at all i will.
Take care
Linda x

90

Shar

in response to your question about how you can have positive nodes if your margins are clear…

the cells dont spread to the nodes because you have cells in the margins they go there normally via the lymphatic system which drains from your breast.

the margin is the area surrounding the lump and they need to make sure there is no DCIS or invasive cancer which could grow there if they remove the tumour plus a healthy area of breast tissue then effectively there is no more cancer there to start growing.

the body has a system of lymphatics which are small vessels which drain into the nodes these vessels are throughout the body including the breasts… the ones in the breasts usually drain into the nodes in your armpit so having clear margins means the cancer has been removed from the breast, having an auxillary clearance means the cancerous nodes have been removed and the chemo will zapp and stray cancer cells which could have escaped elsewhere in the body.

having only 2 affected nodes means its much less like to have spread to other areas of the body eg as you say its 2 out of 18 this means the other 16 do not have cancer so its quite unusual to have gotten to the rest of the body without going through the rest of your nodes first.

as for being triple negative try not to worry about this until you have spoken to your onc as you may be worrying over nothing. however if you are found to have triple neg cancer its not always a poor prognosis some people have a very good prognosis… i dont know all your details but from what you have said i input in adjuvant and cancer math and you have a higher chance of not having relapse than having one and of not dying from bc in the next 10 to 15 years… i know they are only statistics but i would say this is pretty reassuring.

Luluxxx

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Hi Shar
Next time you have an appointment to see the BCN or the breast consultant, how about taking someone else along with you? I found it really helpful when I couldn’t take all the information in - two heads are much better than one, especially when one of them has just found she’s got BC.
I also suggest that you make a list of questions in advance, so you don’t forget anything.
Sarah x

92

Dear All
Thanks for this forum. I would like to put my thoughts in here. Unfortunately nobody knows for sure what causes BC. The ‘usual risk factors’ like obesity, smoking, alcohol, increasing age, hormonal imbalance, pills, HRT, no breast feeding, family history etc play their part but not in every case. About less than 10% of people with BC have family history but more than 90% just happen and this has led to this difficult jigsaw puzzle.
It is predominantly a western disease and so life-style must be playing a part.

Some scientific evidences (as far as I am aware till now):

  1. Although stress is not directly related to BC but there is some evidence that stress reduces the number of circulating ‘Killer cells’ that normally eat up the ‘suspicious bad cells’ in the body which includes cancer cells. It is a part of immunity.
  2. A recent study proved that incidence of breast cancer is reduced when use of HRT was reduced.
  3. Results of two studies have shown last year that 8 out of 10 breast tumour biopsy specimens had high amount of paraben in them. Parabens (methyl/ethyl/propyl parabens) are preservatives that are extensively used by cosmetic industries. It is not proven whether paraben can cause BC but results of these studies have raised a lot of worries about these chemicals and triggered more research.
  4. It is shown that incidence of BC is very low in some eastern countries particularly Japan.
  5. It is suspected that insecticides used by food industries for spraying on plants etc and use of dairy product made from hormone injected cattles may be causing growth of tumours.
  6. There is some evidence and suspicion that a viral infection, injury to the breast, sleep deprivation and plastics may be related to BC but not confirmed.

I have lived in London for 12 years now. I did not have any of the ‘usual risk factors’ except for rising age (45). I have 2 children both breastfed. I am size 12, eat healthy (at least that’s what I thought!), take regular exercise, never smoke and very occasionally have a glass of wine. I did not have a family history (most family members are in India). After my dx 2 years ago I was totally shocked and became almost paranoid. I started reading and exploring this area (may have read a bit too much!).

I have worked out my risk factors as - age above 40, mirena coil (out now), hormonal imbalance, stressful life as a doctor and sole provider for the family, sleep deprivation and chemicals. That’s too many risk factors (LOL) and I am less shocked now.

I felt absolutely awful during treatment (skin sparing mx and Chemo). Been back to full time work for a year now and feel much better and surprisingly I had started to even forget about my illness until recently when diep was offered.

With some effort we can certainly control some potential causative factors.
Can’t help the increasing age factor but I am now regularly doing meditation and yoga to reduce stress, reduced the amount of plastics in the house specially not microwaving food in plastic containers any more, eat mostly organic and I don’t use cosmetics/moisturisers with parabens in them.

Love to all xxxxxxxxxxx

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Hi Ruhi

Thanks for your great post. Very succinct and clear. My risk factors were similar to yours, on the face of it I shouldn’t have been at risk, but looking at other factors then my risk factors increased.

Pretty much your lifestyle changes are the ones that I have made too. I am very into my yoga and meditation, practising most days and think it is a huge help to ‘even’ life out.

All the best and don’t work too hard!

94

quote from cancer research

"Another study found traces of parabens, a chemical found in some deodorants, in some breast tumours. Parabens is similar to oestrogen, the human hormone that can increase the risk of breast cancer at high levels.

But parabens is much weaker than oestrogen itself and any effects it has are likely to be overwhelmed by natural oestrogen produced in our body, or similar chemicals found in our diet.

Finding parabens in tumours is a far cry from saying that it causes breast cancer. To do that, scientists would need to compare levels in breast tumours to “safe” thresholds, to levels in healthy body cells, or to levels in healthy people without cancer. These studies have not been done.

In fact, breast tumours have large blood supplies and are likely to contain traces of anything that finds its way into our bloodstream. And besides, most modern deodorants are parabens-free"

Also injecting of cattle is not allowed in this country.think it is still allowed in the states though so unless your milk and dairy comes from there it’s safe.

info.cancerresearchuk.org/healthyliving/cancercontroversies/de
odorants/

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Hi Ruhi,
Its such a minefield isnt it, there are so many different theories to the causes of breast cancer , like you and other ladies i have researched and researched since being DX in 2007,and its been realy hard sometimes to try to separate the fact from the fiction.
I agree with what you have said in your post especialy about the enviroment /plastics/pesticides ect,though im not very convinced with the dairy issue as there have been so many studies over the yrs looking at diet and BC, EPIC being the latest , and to date there has never been any strong or convincing evidence in relation to eating dairy products and BC, or any strong links found between diet and BC in general, diet does play a part in Obesity though which we know is a known risk factor.
Re any hormones in cattle, like mel said earlier injecting of cattle is not allowed in this country so i guess thats not realy a problem for us over here .
Like a lot of ladies ,i didnt have any of the “usual risk factors”, but im realy glad i started this thread now because its been realy interesting reading everyones different expeirences and thoughts on the possible causes of BC,it certainly is one big jigsaw puzzle isnt it.
Thanks Ladies
Linda x

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Thanks Gretchen, Stressy-messy and Linda for those comments.

About parabens- More than deodorants I worry about paraben containing moisturisers which are used in enormous amount by many women. It is very hard to find a product that is paraben free. There is definitely a commercial reason for this and will continue to be like this until solid evidence emerges. However, some companies like nivea are being slightly careful now and made a paraben free moisturiser. I am using only pure natural shea butter as moisturiser (not from body shop).

About dairy products- I am thinking, even if the cattles are not injected in UK, what does the cattle’s natural hormone do to us in addition to our own hormone, specially if someone has other risk factors as well? There are some studies done in other countries suggested that bc may be more common in people using too much dairy products (sp vegetarians!). I just use soya products now although it has phyto-oestrogens which is supposed to be ‘good oestrogen’? Need to explore this a bit more.

Let’s keep ourselves updated with the information as evidence keep coming as this is going to help a lot of people.

Lots of love. xxxxxx

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Hiya Ruhi,
Its funny how you should mention Shea Butter ,i too only use 100% organic Shear Butter since being DX as a face and body moisturiser, its wonderfull stuff and has been around for many centuries now, its derived from the Shea Tree and contains no nasties, its also execellent for lots of different uses like blemishes, wrinkles, eczema, dermatitis ect ,the premium Shea Butter also has properties to treat skin allergies too, like insect bites, sunburns, frostbites, and a number of other skin conditions also. Its also a great deep hair conditioning treatment too.

I was quite shocked when i first researched skin care and cosmetic products after my own DX ,i realy didnt realise just how many different chemicals there were in our everyday products ,it certainly was an eye opener for me at the time and i have made some changes since , for anyone who may be interested in this particular issue you can check whats in all of our products from the link below.I also think with the concept of things like nicotine/hormone patches ect it shows how anything put on our skin ,doesnt just stay on our skin it can also penetrate into the body,which is quite concerning to me.

safecosmetics.org/article.php?id=682

I find it ironicle that companies such as Avon, Revlon and Estee Lauder – the three largest users of the pink ribbon in the cosmetics industry were asked to sign the Compact for Safe Cosmetics, a pledge to remove chemicals linked to cancer, but so far they have have been unwilling to make a public commitment to eliminate carcinogens and the other chemicals of concern from their products.

Re our cattles natural hormones,from what ive read on the subject any risk would be very small ,unfortuneately these days we are surrounded by hormones in our everyday life both natural and Synthetic, everything from the food we eat to the water we drink to a lot of everyday items ,xenoestrogens concern me most because Synthetic oetrogens are not absorbed or got rid of by the body like natural oestrogens are.

suite101.com/content/list-of-xenoestrogens—chemical-estrogens-a205523

Regarding eating Soya its sometimes another confusing area, there are a lot of contraversies about the use of soya in general, mainly because of its very high content of phyto-oestrogens (oestrogen Minics),studies are divided on this though, for me personaly i do avoid eating soya products as my own oncologist doesnt reccommend it.

Linda x

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A very good book explaining all about chemical nasties is "Whats in This Stuff?’ and there are several others available too. You have to make your own decisions on how many chemicals you eliminate, but it is a good start for better understanding.

My personal pet hate is fabric conditioner. It stinks, makes your clothes feel slimy and those chemicals rub into your skin all day long!

Cornish girl, where do you get your Shea butter from?

99

Hi,
If your thinking of buying Shea Butter ,Shea Butter is usealy graded 1-5 , nos1 being the purest (in its raw state and unrefined) , most of the Shea Butters you will find on the high street are refined, so are not pure and most have added perservatives ect for shelf life, you can usealy tell the difference between the two as pure unrefined Shea Butter is “yellow” in colour while the refined Shea Butters are white.

Unrefined Shea Butter isnt that expensive , and can be bought online from places like amazon ,though i usealy get mine from a place called Akoma,

akomaskincare.co.uk/

amazon.co.uk/Organic-fair-trade-Handcrafted-Unrefined-SheaByNature/dp/B002YAO9Z6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1297797446&sr=8-3

Its good stuff, i wouldnt use anything else now .
Linda

100

Hi shar,
Hope everything went ok with your appointment today, have been thinking about you all day,
Big Hugs to you
Linda x