jane plant
jane plant Anybody read the book, your life in your hands by jane plant and if so, what do you think, would it really make a difference, anybody tried changing their diets ?
lesley donna
Jane plant…hhhmmmm!! I’ve read Jane Plant’s book and it really concerns me for a number of reasons. No disrespect to her as I’m sure it worked for her but her “findings” are not well researched. This is a book based on her personal opinions. And based on a “research” study of one i.e. herself. She advises against consuming dairy but not from consuming the cattle that they come from, animals that are routinely dosed with all kinds of rubbish. Does she seriously believe that hormones are n’t passed in meat? She recommends consuming soya. Well, i have been a vegetarian for over 20 years getting most of my protein from soya, and eating a lot of soya products. And I still got breast cancer so it does n’t appear to have given me any protection. She started from the assumption that Asian women don’t get BC because they don’t eat dairy. But she has n’t researched this, with proper research methods and controls. To me that has as much validity as saying they don’t get BC because they’re short. She claims her cancer started to diminish when she changed her diet. She was also having chemo and rads so any change cannot be attributed solely to her diet. I’ve come across people who’ve said" Jane Plant comes from a background of research so she must know what she’s talking about" Well, I have a background of research which has as much relevance to BC as Jane Plant’s. What I mean is, my background is not in medicine and neither is hers. Jane Plant is a geologist, not a medical doctor. No reputable researcher would have a study of one person as it would have no validity. But this is what she has done in publishing her book. And she has made a lot of money from it! Personally I feel her work is fundamentally flawed and should be filed in the same place as the “Atkins Diet”–under “B” for bin because they’re both rubbish.
Geraldine
There are quite a few threads on Jane Plant , and I’m sure you’ll get lots of replies as people tend to have strong feelings on this subject.
I have very little to add to Geraldine’s excellent post. Avoiding dairy for many years didn’t stop me from getting breast cancer. I’m still a vegan, but for the same reasons I was before bc, not because I have any illusions about this preventing a recurrence.
Some people have suggested to me that my cancer may have been worse had I been a dairy eater; I don’t think that with grade 3 I got off particularly lightly.
I’m especially pleased that Geraldine points out that when she had her road to Damascus moment - when her lump disappeared a few weeks after she gave up dairy - Plant was undergoing a course of chemotherapy. It’s easy to miss in the book.
Agree I agree with Geraldine and Louise in saying that Jane Plant’s views are not backed by scientific evidence.
Her book is very persuasive, and much of what she writes sounds ‘scientific’ and credible. This is one of the reasons why I think her book is so danagerous… because women read it when they are at their most vulnerable.
I’m not a scientist (not even a geologist like Plant) and I don’t understand some of her claims. BUT where I do understand her ideas they are quite clearly wrong. For example, for starters, she describes her cancer recurrences as secondaries…actually they were local and regional recurrences which are not in themselves terminal. And yes she had rdaiotherpay and chemotherapy. Plant claims her oncologist has said various things about her prognosis, but we only have her word for it…I supect his version might be different. Plant claims: “I have give the diet to 63 women, all of whom remain cancer free…The five women who refused to use ot or ‘cheated’ have all sadly had recurrences or have died.”
I think these statemnts are pernicious.
I know women who have followed versions of the Plant diet, desperate to ‘give themselves the best chance’ who are now dead. They would have died any way but at least one ( ar eal rather than a cyber friend) tortured herself and her family about being dairy free. Perhaps this is why I feel so strongly.
I think all any of us can do, vegan, vegtarian, or meat eaters (as I am) is eat a balanced diet…all that fruit and vegetables, oily fish etc. A balanced diet which we enjoy makes the time we have…long or short…much pleasanter.
best wishes
Jane
totally agree with what JaneRA has said about diet. We have to be careful that we don’t end up blaming ourselves for our cancer by thinking that we either did something wrong or did n’t do something that we should have.
Geraldine
I too agree with JaneRA with regard to Plant…I am ER+ so have actually been advised to reduce my intake of soya and phytoestrogens [spelling]…I agree a healthy well balanced diet is a better path to follow…haven’t got Plants book but have Susannah Olivers…which isn’t quite so scientific as Plants…but have not followed diets in her book either…I personally think some of the information in both books could now be out of date with what is now being recommended…ie., less soya if ER+…
…also as Geraldine says we have to be careful that we don’t end up blaming ourselves with ''perhaps if i’d done/ate that instead ‘’
The problem is we’re all looking for a reason and looking for an answer…and i personally don’t think at the moment there is one.
karen
Hi everyone,
thanks for the feedback, i saw the book, thought it looked good, and half way through it started to think it felt too good to be true a miracle amongst a disease which doesnt seem too hold too many miracles for most of us.
I guess i thought i would see what the general consensus was, i think i have to agree, and can see from what you are all saying vegan and non vegan, the disease is indiscriminate and a healthy diet is best, suppose we are all looking for a miracle out there.
thanks again.
Lesley donna
Just a further note. Like Karen, my cancer was er+. I’ve also been advised by my onc to avoid soya and strong sources of phytooestrogen.
Regards
Geraldine
Have any of you REALLY read the book??? 1. The whole premise behind the No Dairy, No Animal Product (especially not any product of a dairy animal!) and YES, strictly vegan approach of Jane Plant is backed by referral to literally hundreds of scientific papers by independent scientists. Of itself, the book constitutes a scientific review of research in the field of the epidemiology of breast cancer in relation to diet and lifestyle variables and the role of growth factors and hormones in its development and progression.
-
Further, she does not rely totally and utterly on dietary changes to take account of the food factors implied in breast cancer development and progression but also “lifestyle” changes to take account of the lifestyle factors which foster breast cancer development nd progression.
-
she also specifically points out and does not hide the fact that chemotherapy and the Plant Programme together were what has put her into total remission (from stage IV breast cancer - check www.breastcancer.org where they define it as stage IV breast cancer
(stayj for brest kan-sir)
Cancer has spread to other organs of the body, most often the bones, lungs, liver, or brain; or cancer has spread locally to the skin and lymph nodes inside the neck near the collarbone".)
She encourages anyone with the breast cancer to work WITH radio and chemotherapy and use the Plant Programme as a complementary approach.
All of us on this page are susceptible to breast cancer otherwise we wouldn’t be here, vegetarian or not! Who knows, for each of us, the exact combination of factors which triggered the disease and took a lifetime to do so??
What we need to do is go from where we are now - irrespective of what stage the cancer has reached.
I can tell you from personal experience that there are substantial benefits to following the Plant Programme, albeit rather late in the day - after a recurrence 3 years after the first one, and 10 years after a mastectomy. The main tangible benefit is that I feel extremely well, have much more energy, better digestion and better intellectual function than I’ve had in the 10 years since my mastectomy and have also lost most of the excess weight I was carrying. I have only followed the programme since July last year.
It contributes to my positive outlook about treatment.
I would also refer you to a review of Phyto-oestrogens and breast cancer chemoprevention published in 2004 which points to the value of the dietary approach in HER-2 and ER negative tumours as well as ER positive tumours. breast-cancer-research.com/content/6/3/119 which has nothing whatsoever to do with Jane Plant but vindicates her approach anyway.
For goodness sake, Geraldine, READ the book again and stop discouraging women from doing what we can to support out treatments and prolong our lives and our wellbeing.
There are no cures but your approach is similar in my view to feeding candy to diabetics whilst they take their insulin!
Let’s go with the scientific basis of complementary approaches, including that of Prof. Jane Plant, whose main research as a geologist apperas to have been in the field of epidemiology of environmental factors, and therefore rahter useful background to her thesis.
Get your oncologist to read it too… Answering the advice of oncologists that warn against soya consumption, this is also covered in the research paper I mentioned in the previous posting.
I don’t expect medical professionals to take a blind bit of notice of what patients have to say.
However, it would be nice if they would also inform themselves FULLY about the pros and cons, before sweeping out of our diets one of the best sources of cancer fighting chemopreventive chemicals. Most vegetables and ALL beans, green, baked, you name it, contain phyto-oestrogens, as do all berry fruits and well, hundreds of day to day foods. To say NO to phyto-oestrogens is to dedicate oneself to a meat-only diet and there IS a direct link between intake of animal protein and increase in breast cancer rates.
Check also references in the american www.breastcancer.org website in their link to research results, where the take-home message is that (American) women can reduce their cancer risk through diet.
Remember, until recently, oncologists, mine included, were recommending against exercise once breast cancer had been diagnosed as it might shake up the tumour cells and increase spread… I didn’t take his advice on that either… Did you?
To JennyW First of all, I am not the only person who has responded to the original posting.
Secondly, your personalised comment to me is deeply offensive. We are all entitled to our views without making personal attacks on other users of this site.
Thirdly, avoiding phyto oestrogens does not mean committing to a meat only diet. The advice I have recieved is to avoid the more significant sources of phyto oestrogen e.g soya, flaxseed particulalry in large doses/amounts… I am well aware that many if not most fruit and vegetable food sources contain phyto oestrogen. There is a sizeable amount of research indicating that not enough is known about the effects of soya, as in some people it has a positive effect whilst in others it does n’t. The reasons for this are n’t fully understood.
If you want to follow Jane Plant’s book that’s entirely up to you. I prefer to recieve advice on health care from someone who was trained in health care, not from someone who was trained to dig up rocks.
Geraldine
yes jennyw I’ve read the book, more than once; wondered if you had though when I read your opening paragraph - meat, fish, seafood and eggs are included in Jane Plant’s recipes. She does not recommend a vegan diet.
I’m a vegan and I agree that a dairy-free diet has many benefits; sadly for me and many other vegans avoidance of breast cancer has not been one of those benefits.
Geraldine has not discouraged anyone from doing anything they choose to do; nor has anyone else posting to this thread. Somebody asked for views and we gave ours.
I remember In the dark days around diagnosis I read Jane Plant and felt I must have unwittingly ‘given’ myself breast cancer. I went to Waitrose and spent twice my usual food budget on organic, dairy-free produce. I lost weight but I’m not sure if I achieved anything else. So many diseases without a cure seem to attract ‘miracle diets’: arthritis, acne etc. They make the sufferer feel guilty because of their ‘impure’ intake and then, how much more miserable if the demon disease is not, in fact, kept at bay?
It all seems more complicated than the diet brigade would like. The answer seems to be in our genes.
Two other things occur to me. I heard a researcher on the radio saying that before there was a cure for TB a positive attitude ( ranking alongside diet fascism in my book )was hailed as a must. Deja Vu?
Then there was the old jazz singer, an octogenarian interviewed who paused , looked into the middle distance and said, " Well, if I knew I was gonna live this long I’d have sure taken better care of myself…"
Kitty
I didn’t intend any personal attack, Geraldine, but I found your remark strange in the extreme when you stated that Jane Plant did NOT discourage the eating of dairy meat!
I do not doubt your access to great dietary advice either. I don’t understand why it is necessary to launch an attack on the writing of a woman who has not only survived Stage IV breast cancer for 14 years now but is thriving and wants to share not only her personal story but the scientific take on the data already published, in the hopes that others may also benefit.
It simply seems to me that an awful lot of criticism of Jane Plant would evaporate if people read her books in detail. I’m the first to say that they could be better indexed as they are very densely packed with information. I had fairly heavy chemobrain following FEC nearly 4 years ago and found reading rather heavy going. So I had to read the book twice to make it sink in.
Let’s hope we can work and write to help and support eachother in finding ways to healing without being destructive.
Warm wishes for your very good health,
Jenny
Please respect others We have received complaints about this thread. Can I remind forum members of the Code of Conduct under which these forums operate and to which all members agree on joining.
1 Respect. Breast Cancer Care online community is about the sharing of information and support. We recognise that at times user’s views will differ. It is important for users to recognise, acknowledge and respect the values and beliefs of others. If you disagree with what someone has said then make sure you argue the issue and not the person.
Please remember this when posting.
Moderator
Breast Cancer Care
Plant Programme Jane Plant has written a number of books. One is the Plant Programme which is a recipe book to support prevention and treatment of cancer. It addresses 2 audiences - the well and omniverous, to help prevent cancer onset and those who are living with cancer - whom she advises to be strictly VEGAN.
One of her other books, “Your Life in Your Hands”, explains the background to the changes to dietary and lifestyle factors that can help breast cancer patients return to health during and after conventional treatment.
I follow her dietary and lifestyle principles because they make sense to me. I generally make up my own recipes.
Use whatever approach works for you and helps you to be well.
The strictly alternative path hasn’t appealed to me so far but the complementary path does for now. I followed the Bristol approach for years without getting a huge benefit but I credit that and Jane Plant’s approach and conventional therapy for me still being here!
I’m well and happy to be feeling better than I have for years.
Wishing you well,
JEnny
lesley donna this is my second attempt to reply- what ever happened to the first?
To reiterate -IF your biochemistry and cancer are identical to JP’s it might be OK to follow her path.
If not don’t!
Learn what suits you, eat a good fresh food diet and watch what’s happening to your body- best wishes, dilly
Thanks Dilly
Im currently staring down the barrel of secondary cancer, liver mets and bone, they think, but am still having tests, mri and pet scan as everything else is suspicious, but not conclusive, the only thing that is conclusive is my ca 153 which is steadily rising, instead of going down. im looking for anything that helps i guess, cant bear the tbought of leaving my 3 year old without a mother and my big girls without a grandmother for the children they will have in the future. Im not going out without a fight, but it sure does suck to feel so out of control of what is happening to me.
One thing for sure though, alternative therapies seem to get a really wide range of reactions.
love to you all and good health.
lesleydonna
lesley donna I have skin and bone mets and sympathise entirely with your need to be there for family -I’d be likewise if I wasn’t old.
I’ll try anything- and do- but if no benefit felt at reasonable interval give up.
Since no one has breast cancer answers on an individual basis all you can do is experiment to see what helps you.
I started Kefir because a lady on bcmets said she and her father in law’s numbers had dropped dramatically with it. It’s helped me [no idea of my numbers] in unexpected ways -eased ghastly guts.
L-Glutamine is helpful too and I use ground flax seed [golden not brown] which is has loadsa omega3. The oil is supposed to be better but tastes 'orrible. If you try either take a milk protein with it- cottage cheese/yoghurt/kefir.
Poke round the net and you will spot things which suit you. But would never recommend “cures” and think JP was lucky -all ladies are different. You could experiment with the bits of her programme which you think would suit you.
Best wishes and keep trying- plenty of rest helps too, dilly